Chart with heavy karma?

HeartTree

Well-known member
One astrologer told me that my chart is full of heavy karma but didn't told how come. It's bothering me a lot. I know for example that my natal venus rx in 12 house cusp is difficult placemen..but this karma thing makes me feel that it's my fault that my love life in this incarnation feels so painful. Was I so awful person?

I don't even know is this karma good or bad karma. Maybe someone could take a peek?
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
Was that astrologer on a power trip? Or incompetent? It's not helpful to tell someone they've got heavy karma in their chart without saying why you think it's so. Really, it's not helpful to tell someone they have heavy karma even if you do think it's so.

The problems you have with your love life, like any current life problems, are rooted in your current life, not your past. If there's something you're doing right now that's contributing to the problems, that's the only way you would be "at fault," and even then, there's no way it's all your fault. Every love relationship involves at least two people, who both have free will.

When people have chronic problems with their love life, what I often see, if I look at their chart and hear their story, is that they're approaching relationships in a way that doesn't fit with what their chart shows they need. But are your love life problems chronic? Have you had multiple relationships that went badly for more or less the same reasons? Or are you currently dealing with a difficult situation regarding love, but not have a history of similar problems? If it's the second, we're looking at one situation here, not a chronic pattern.

Regarding your Venus retrograde, I have almost the same placement--Venus retrograde in Virgo, only in the eighth house for me, also considered "bad" traditionally--and I haven't had more than my share of love problems. For you, and for me, Venus doesn't rule the seventh house. If it did, it would have much more of an impact on partners, but for you, it rules the second and ninth houses. How has higher education gone for you (if you pursued it)? How have your finances been? That's where I'd be expecting to see the effects of Venus most strongly. Even then, Venus retrograde in Virgo doesn't necessarily mean bad, although it might mean those things haven't worked in the usual way for you.

Where I would look for karma is the north and south nodes, aspects involving them, and their rulers. Looking at yours, heavy karma isn't the first thing I'd say, although I do see some placements that *might* be interpreted that way. Key word is might. Other interpretations are equally possible. It might or might not mean that a previous version of you--if you believe in the reincarnation model; we could just as easily be looking at a story of what your ancestors did--did bad things.

More likely, based on what I see, that previous incarnation benefited from possibly bad things that others did, maybe joined in at some point, but might or might not have intended any harm. The picture I see looks rather like the experience of being the favorite daughter or son in an abusive family: in that situation, being the favorite would save you, but would also trap you, and make you "one of them" to your less favored siblings.

Even if you are a reincarnation of a terrible person (which I doubt), that doesn't mean your current love problems are a punishment for that. Karma doesn't work that way. Rather, it's about getting a new chance. Learning what you didn't manage to learn before, maybe changing, at the soul level, how you handle certain things. The whole picture is a growth process, and it happens over your lifetime.

I can go into more detail if you want, but would like your feedback first.
 

HeartTree

Well-known member
Yeah I was so surprised and confused that I didn't ask more about it at that point. But it kind of haunts me.

I think it's very interesting what you say about you seeing difference what people's long for and what they need for when you look at charts. I know one of my problem is that I'm living all my relationship in my head. And thou I'm desperately longing for love im not expressing it to those people. Partly because I sense it is not welcomed. Even when they are interested they shy away. This has been my pattern for many years...maybe because of many bad past experiences..when I was crushed with my wishes.

I think i have always fell in love with persons that I can't have. They are always somehow emotionally not available for me (gay, married, not interested). At my childhood I had serious problems with my dad. He had mental illness and he was violent towards me. Now he's been dead for many years but I think Im unconsciously protecting myself with this pattern for not been hurt.. but the outcome is on the other hand destructive too. I think this has been really hard way to learn something (karmic)? But I understand that many people have problems with this area of life.

At the moment I'm studying my masters degree at university. It was hard to get in polytechnic when I studied my first degree..It took several years to get in. But I have always been good student and I enjoy to study. I'm fine artist so my finances go up and down. Im use to it so I don't suffer to live this kind of uncertain everyday life.

Thank you for your long and supportive answer. It made me feel better already. If you like to tell me something else I would be of course very grateful:)
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
I think it's very interesting what you say about you seeing difference what people's long for and what they need for when you look at charts.
That's not what I said, actually, but maybe it's true for you. I've heard (not sure if it's true or just theory) that people with a sun/moon opposition experience a great difference between what they want and what they need. Moon represents our deepest desires, and sun represents what we need most for our own growth. If they're in opposition, those are two very different things. However, I think your opposition may be a bit easier because you have those signs in each other's associated houses and because you have a planet (Neptune) forming a trine to your sun and a sextile to your moon. Neptune, however, is a key planet for you in other ways....
I know one of my problem is that I'm living all my relationship in my head. And thou I'm desperately longing for love im not expressing it to those people. Partly because I sense it is not welcomed. Even when they are interested they shy away. This has been my pattern for many years...maybe because of many bad past experiences..when I was crushed with my wishes.

I think i have always fell in love with persons that I can't have. They are always somehow emotionally not available for me (gay, married, not interested).
Repeatedly falling for unavailable people is a way to avoid intimacy. It strikes me as a particularly Piscean/Neptunian way. Chase the mirage, don't let it become reality.

Could also be a Virgoan way, if part of your m.o. is to create a mental picture of the perfect partner that no real person can measure up to. I have no idea if that's what you've been doing, but if it is, it would fit with both your Venus placement and your seventh house sign.

What I said about people approaching relationships in a way that doesn't fit with their chart means this: sometimes people approach relationships in a way that doesn't match what their chart shows they need. They might, for instance, try to start a relationship by flirting heavily when they have a Venus placement that suggests they need to be up front and real with people they like, and are likely to find flirting too phony (Virgo is one of those possible placements). Or they keep dating people very different from the kind of person indicated by their seventh house (signs and placements in the seventh house suggest a partner with their traits--in your case, the best partner would be someone who is Pisces-like in some way, maybe with a touch of Aries in their personality).

It sounds like you are approaching relationships in a way that fits with your chart, but dysfunctionally. Your chart can suggest both how you would approach intimacy, and how you would avoid it.

At my childhood I had serious problems with my dad. He had mental illness and he was violent towards me.
Based on what I see in your karmic chart, I'm not surprised that abuse happened in your family. There's always an echo of the south node story in the current life. But what I see also looks like a history--past life and/or current life--of being supported by your family, even if they were abusive. Did you also experience a lot of family support? Did your dad have lucid moments when he treated you more like a favorite? Did you perhaps get significant material support from your family, like inherited money or family connections that helped you get where you are?

What makes me ask that is there are many trines and sextiles involving your south node and its ruler, Jupiter. In a past life karmic story, trines and sextiles indicate who or what supported you. That doesn't necessarily mean supported you in a good way. It could have been an enabling kind of support, or a backhanded kind of support, as in, you get favored as long as you keep up appearances and don't make waves.

You also have many trines and sextiles involving the sun and Saturn, which are the planets usually interpreted as the father's significator. Plus, Neptune on your IC makes many trines and sextiles, and is conjunct your south node, too. In that, I think we have an indicator of your father's mental illness. When we're looking for our parents in the birth chart, typically the fourth house/IC is read as the father and 10th house/MC as the mother, because in the home, to a child, the mother is usually the more present and dominant parent. If the opposite was true for you, we would reverse that.

The IC is also about roots, far reaching intergenerational patterns, and your own deep self. Since you've got a seventh house ruler there, and it's clearly indicative of the ways you were hurt, it looks to me like the way to a healthy relationship is to work on your own healing. Ultimately, it wouldn't be just your own healing, it would also extend to your family, whether or not they play any direct part in it.
 

HeartTree

Well-known member
That's not what I said, actually, but maybe it's true for you. I've heard (not sure if it's true or just theory) that people with a sun/moon opposition experience a great difference between what they want and what they need. Moon represents our deepest desires, and sun represents what we need most for our own growth. If they're in opposition, those are two very different things. However, I think your opposition may be a bit easier because you have those signs in each other's associated houses and because you have a planet (Neptune) forming a trine to your sun and a sextile to your moon. Neptune, however, is a key planet for you in other ways....

I have noticed that I find myself from situations where my life is kind of divated. For example I live in a one city and travel everyday to another to go to school. Time to time I feel that my life is divided half, two circle of friends etc. And sometimes it is hard for me to know what I really want..from what I imagine would be something cool that I could do. But it is revealing to hear it's not that hard as it could be due those house placements!

What I said about people approaching relationships in a way that doesn't fit with their chart means this: sometimes people approach relationships in a way that doesn't match what their chart shows they need. They might, for instance, try to start a relationship by flirting heavily when they have a Venus placement that suggests they need to be up front and real with people they like, and are likely to find flirting too phony (Virgo is one of those possible placements). Or they keep dating people very different from the kind of person indicated by their seventh house (signs and placements in the seventh house suggest a partner with their traits--in your case, the best partner would be someone who is Pisces-like in some way, maybe with a touch of Aries in their personality).

Funny you say Pisces..my mother and brother are Pisces. But apart from them I don't get along with piscean type personalities. They rub me wrong way, irritate even. I feel they are often unstable..or those ones I have met are.


Based on what I see in your karmic chart, I'm not surprised that abuse happened in your family. There's always an echo of the south node story in the current life. But what I see also looks like a history--past life and/or current life--of being supported by your family, even if they were abusive. Did you also experience a lot of family support? Did your dad have lucid moments when he treated you more like a favorite? Did you perhaps get significant material support from your family, like inherited money or family connections that helped you get where you are?

What makes me ask that is there are many trines and sextiles involving your south node and its ruler, Jupiter. In a past life karmic story, trines and sextiles indicate who or what supported you. That doesn't necessarily mean supported you in a good way. It could have been an enabling kind of support, or a backhanded kind of support, as in, you get favored as long as you keep up appearances and don't make waves.

Well not material support. I am oldest child and I remember my father best from my siblings. So I also remember clearly those times when he was fine. And he was loving and great dad. So I got that experience. But he didn't treated me as a favorite. Maybe moon sun opposition works also here as I have this monster dad/loving dad duality living inside my memories. I was also rebellious towards my dad when I was child. This is why he was violent towards me as he didn't own good judgment anymore. But my mother has been supporting us emotionally and we wouldn't be as sane as we are without her. She has been on our side and someone we can always count on. She has also supported me financially time to time but not significantly.

The IC is also about roots, far reaching intergenerational patterns, and your own deep self. Since you've got a seventh house ruler there, and it's clearly indicative of the ways you were hurt, it looks to me like the way to a healthy relationship is to work on your own healing. Ultimately, it wouldn't be just your own healing, it would also extend to your family, whether or not they play any direct part in it.

Yes I'm at therapy now and my sister started that process following my example. I'm happy for that :happy: But I still wonder why my life had to go as it's been going. I have suffered so much. I have been blind and mourned over people that don't care for me a bit. Like years! And I haven't really ever dated seriously or received love back. This is my greatest sorrow. There is too good things in my life of course. Things that I'm grateful. Sometimes it's hard to remember.
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
Between the chart and your story, I think what's going on here is much bigger than you. In that sense, the astrologer you consulted was right: you are carrying heavy karma. That doesn't mean you personally incurred it. Karma, in the original sense of the word, simply means cause and effect. Every action creates a reaction, which creates a reaction in turn, which creates another reaction, on down the line infinitely.

Your father was mentally ill and abusive. That had a very heavy impact on you. But it didn't start with your father. People with mental illnesses are manifesting the dysfunction in their family and their society. So your father was manifesting the dysfunction that came before him, and probably went back many generations.

That's karma. Not your fault, not your father's fault, not your great-great-grandparents' fault... all of you were part of it, each generation passed it on, but it's like breathing polluted air, or carrying a genetic disease (mental illness is, in fact, a genetic disease in some cases, so this may not be just an analogy). Your children will be affected, as you are affected, even if you didn't cause it.

Neptune is conjunct your south node, on your IC. That tells us you're carrying the karma of your ancestral roots (IC) and Neptune (mental illness, escape from the world, also the great spiritual reality, shamans, mystics, all the ancestors back to the dawn of time). We could read this as a past life story and say you are the reincarnation of a shaman, or an alcoholic, or a mentally ill individual, or all of the above. We could also read it as what your ancestors have left you with, and what you're here to do something with.

That is indeed heavy karma.
 

HeartTree

Well-known member
Between the chart and your story, I think what's going on here is much bigger than you. In that sense, the astrologer you consulted was right: you are carrying heavy karma. That doesn't mean you personally incurred it. Karma, in the original sense of the word, simply means cause and effect. Every action creates a reaction, which creates a reaction in turn, which creates another reaction, on down the line infinitely.

Your father was mentally ill and abusive. That had a very heavy impact on you. But it didn't start with your father. People with mental illnesses are manifesting the dysfunction in their family and their society. So your father was manifesting the dysfunction that came before him, and probably went back many generations.

That's karma. Not your fault, not your father's fault, not your great-great-grandparents' fault... all of you were part of it, each generation passed it on, but it's like breathing polluted air, or carrying a genetic disease (mental illness is, in fact, a genetic disease in some cases, so this may not be just an analogy). Your children will be affected, as you are affected, even if you didn't cause it.

Neptune is conjunct your south node, on your IC. That tells us you're carrying the karma of your ancestral roots (IC) and Neptune (mental illness, escape from the world, also the great spiritual reality, shamans, mystics, all the ancestors back to the dawn of time). We could read this as a past life story and say you are the reincarnation of a shaman, or an alcoholic, or a mentally ill individual, or all of the above. We could also read it as what your ancestors have left you with, and what you're here to do something with.

That is indeed heavy karma.

Thank you :) ! I am an artist so in the way im all time dealing with illusions. And im living strongly inside my head..in my dreams. My wishes are not manifesting to the real life. You wrote: ..what you're here to do something with. How can i deal with these issues in my life so that they wont ruin everything?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
You wrote: ..what you're here to do something with. How can i deal with these issues in my life so that they wont ruin everything?

Exactly how is beyond the scope of an internet thread. But I wouldn't worry about "ruining everything." Your life is a process. With all this heavy karma, it's a healing process. You might feel like the issues you're dealing with are ruining everything, but that's because it's part of the process.

You have dealt with everything more successfully than you're giving yourself credit for. You didn't elaborate on the good things that you have in your life too, but you did mention them. You mentioned that your sister followed your example in going to therapy. I expect there's a lot more that is working that you didn't mention, because you're naturally focusing on what's not working when you post in this thread.
 
Last edited:

HeartTree

Well-known member
Exactly how is beyond the scope of an internet thread. But I wouldn't worry about "ruining everything." Your life is a process. With all this heavy karma, it's a healing process. You might feel like the issues you're dealing with are ruining everything, but that's because it's part of the process.

You have dealt with everything more successfully than you're giving yourself credit for. You didn't elaborate on the good things that you have in your life too, but you did mention them. You mentioned that your sister followed your example in going to therapy. I expect there's a lot more that is working that you didn't mention, because you're naturally focusing on what's not working when you post in this thread.

And why it is beyond the scope? If one can see cause why one can't see the cure as well? Sometimes I feel so heavily restricted. Of course I'm wondering why this has to be this way. I have also tried to leave my worries "to rest" (in example anxiety not been able to form relationship) when I started therapy. It didn't change things one way or another. I have my 3th and last therapy year going on. So it is not like "love will come when you least expect it". I feel like every way/road is wrong.

I have some "good karma" too. I always get cheap apartment when I need one. I don't have resistance for that for some reason. I have loving mom. I'm quite close with my brother and sister. At this moment I don't have close friends. I had many but I feel alienated.

I'm also surprised that I have in this moment many hard Saturn transits going on. I thought it was over when Saturn return ended. It was by itself hard enough. I expected life would become easier. It feel like "life" is making it best to get me ones and for all. I know this sounds like self pitying whining. But I have thought how to explain depression to someone who has no way to understand it. Just imagine how it felt to broke your heart or the ache that you feel when you are separated from someone you love. It feels like you are carrying that feeling all the time in your chest. It's physical.
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
And why it is beyond the scope? If one can see cause why one can't see the cure as well?
What I meant by "beyond the scope" was that going into every last detail of how to deal with those issues is more than can be worked out in a single internet discussion. That doesn't mean the chart doesn't also show the cure. It does show, in a very general way, suggestions of what could help. But what those suggestions mean, how they work out for you personally, could have many variations.

I couldn't tell you exactly how. Still can't. But if you want to discuss in more detail what's going on in your life, people on here can give you astrological feedback in more detail. That might even include me, although I can't be on here all the time right now.

I have some "good karma" too. I always get cheap apartment when I need one. I don't have resistance for that for some reason. I have loving mom. I'm quite close with my brother and sister.
Maybe that has something to do with all the harmonious aspects you have involving your IC/Neptune (IC is, among other things, home, family, real estate). And perhaps with Jupiter in the third. Wherever Jupiter is in your chart, it shows which area of your life you're particularly lucky in. Third house is siblings, neighbors, short trips, communication. If you've been finding cheap apartments when you were moving a short distance, like just across town, that would fit with the third house.
At this moment I don't have close friends. I had many but I feel alienated.
What changed that's made you feel alienated?
I'm also surprised that I have in this moment many hard Saturn transits going on. I thought it was over when Saturn return ended.
What makes you say you have many hard Saturn transits going on?

You do have some hard Saturn transits right now. Saturn is at your IC/Neptune conjunction, which means it's squaring your AC/Mercury conjunction. Saturn is also trining your sun/Venus, sextiling your moon, and sextiling natal Saturn/Pluto. So it's a mix of hard and soft transits.

Soft transits are more a go with the flow time, a straightening out and adjusting to whatever came with the last hard transit. Hard transits are when whatever's not working comes into sharp relief. When the same planet is making hard and soft transits at the same time, you'll probably have some of both of those things going on: dissatisfaction with the status quo, and some mastery over previous difficulties or integration of previous lessons.
 

kshantaram

Premium Member
birthday greetings!

any word of ack and feedbacks to share!
true-untrue, insightful-useful-prospective, etc


mer own virgo 12th for occult interests-medicine-health services;
mer lord 10th for career over 12th for foreign lands;

rahu gemini 9th, curious-clever, foreign travels; pilgrimage;
ketu sag 3rd, impulsive actions; accident prone;


venus lord 9th debilated virgo 11th, venus also lord 9th from moon for luck,
mer own virgo, debilation cancelled,
graudal pace of growth, gains from arts, friendships,chemistry;

could wear 0.25 carat diamond to promote luck.

sun-venus conj artistic aptitudes, but not good for marriage/children,
hope venus elevated aspect over pisces 5th helps,


moon acq 5th airy, uncertain, mystique, reformist,
sun-moon opp blurred mind-vision; born full moon;

sat elevated libra, objective-justice, earnings in distant lands;
sat lord 5th for luck-education-position elevated.
jup transit sat libra trine moon good for employment prospects, family etc;

jup lord 7th transit scorpio 2nd research-occult aptitudes,
and good for family-fin-marriage, teaching-advisory-banking roles;
trine elevated aspect over cancer 10th supportive of career;
trine aspect own pisces 6th for health and employment;

sun leo 11th, gains from govt/corporates/social elite, trine aspect from jup;
jup sag 3rd, advisory-teaching-counselling-medical roles;

sat transit jup sag 3rd good for initiative-progress-change, retro 4-5m now;
sat transit ketu accident prone to care;
sat aspect own acq protective of edu-position, not good for health of children;

sat transit own cap 4th good for domestic comforts-property matters;
elevated aspect over libra first for health and well-being;


mars leo 10th good at operations management, hospital management;
moon-mars opp volatile emotions-finances,
mars lord 8/3 over leo 10th, hurdles/irritants in career;
moon lord 10th over 5th, prone to fall in position sometime;
jup trine aspect leo protective;


rahu heading towards leo 11th, gains from foreigners/foreign relationships;
ketu towards moon acq 5th, affecting position-romance-children-mother etc

mars aspect own scorpio 3rd promoting initiative, secret acts;
while not good for health of siblings.


hope information enables reflect and pick as relevant,
do share feedbacks,

with best wishes,


kshantaram
 
Last edited:

HeartTree

Well-known member
So sorry kshantaram from not giving you feedback earlier :andy: I just forgot it, shame in me :pinched: and thank you for Birthday wishes :)
I'm writing feedback inside quotes >>


mer own virgo 12th for occult interests-medicine-health services;
mer lord 10th for career over 12th for foreign lands;

Occult interest for sure, for natural healing also when I was at my twenties.

rahu gemini 9th, curious-clever, foreign travels; pilgrimage;
ketu sag 3rd, impulsive actions; accident prone;

Yes accident prone and definitely curious

venus lord 9th debilated virgo 11th, venus also lord 9th from moon for luck,
mer own virgo, debilation cancelled,
graudal pace of growth, gains from arts, friendships,chemistry;

Always have had many friends. But couple of last years I have been lonely. Gains from arts also true as I'm artist.

could wear 0.25 carat diamond to promote luck.

This was nice suggestion:) I'm thinking about it!

sun-venus conj artistic aptitudes, but not good for marriage/children,
hope venus elevated aspect over pisces 5th helps,

Hope so ;( :( I hate that all good, traditional love transits and solar arcs are about art for me and not about love.

moon acq 5th airy, uncertain, mystique, reformist,
sun-moon opp blurred mind-vision; born full moon;

sat elevated libra, objective-justice, earnings in distant lands;
sat lord 5th for luck-education-position elevated.
jup transit sat libra trine moon good for employment prospects, family etc

Always been lucky with jobs. Also having earnings from abroad. Not that significant yet anyway. And I have been able to study.

sun leo 11th, gains from govt/corporates/social elite, trine aspect from jup;
jup sag 3rd, advisory-teaching-counselling-medical roles;

sat transit jup sag 3rd good for initiative-progress-change, retro 4-5m now;
sat transit ketu accident prone to care;
sat aspect own acq protective of education-position, not good for health of children

mars leo 10th good at operations management, hospital management;
moon-mars opp volatile emotions-finances,
mars lord 8/3 over leo 10th, hurdles/irritants in career;
moon lord 10th over 5th, prone to fall in position sometime;
jup trine aspect leo protective;

I'm afraid that falling from position now :D like is it going to be shameful event if happening? Finances are going up and down.

Rahu heading towards leo 11th, stress from govt- foreign friends;
ketu towards moon acq 5th, affecting position-romance-children-mother etc

mars aspect own scorpio 3rd promoting initiative, secret acts;
while not good for health of siblings.

Foreign friends are for real stressful to me as I have to speak English not other reason.

hope information enables reflect and pick as relevant,
share pointwise feedbacks,

with best wishes,


kshantaram

This was fantastic thank you again!
 
Top