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  #1  
Unread 08-28-2019, 03:29 PM
ChildOfVenus ChildOfVenus is offline
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What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

I have one with Mars, pluto and neptune what does this mean?
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  #2  
Unread 08-28-2019, 03:36 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

A Yod can only exist when the apex planet is the slowest moving of the three, otherwise its just two inconjuncts.


Yours is Pluto, so you don't have a Yod.
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  #3  
Unread 08-28-2019, 10:45 PM
ChildOfVenus ChildOfVenus is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
A Yod can only exist when the apex planet is the slowest moving of the three, otherwise its just two inconjuncts.


Yours is Pluto, so you don't have a Yod.
I've been told several times by different people that I need to check the YOD in my chart so apparently I must have one.
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  #4  
Unread 08-28-2019, 11:19 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChildOfVenus View Post


I've been told several times by different people
that I need to check the YOD in my chart
so apparently I must have one.

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
YOD


Also known as the Finger of Fate

or the Finger of God
Yod is the name given to
two planets in opposition
connected to two other planets
one by semi-sextiles
and the other by quincunxes.

There is a consensus that this pattern is important
but few astrologers make much use of it
The two additional planets
provide a choice of paths
for the individual
to express or discharge the tension of the opposition.
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  #5  
Unread 08-29-2019, 03:10 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Well, by golly, if you want a yod you should have one. Personally, I don't want one, but to each his own.

So, Mars is at 10 Gem 44, Neptune at 7 Cap 58, and Pluto at 8 Sco 49. With Mars at apex, both inconjuncts (quincunx) are separating (+246', +155').

The orbs here are a bit wide, and both depart. But Mars inhabits the 10th, which may (?) bring things to greater prominence. I don't think Mars can just brush off the influences; too recent, still too close...but fading.

Study the quincunxes Mars-Pluto and Mars-Neptune. See how you can "read" the planets? Mars "leaves these troubles behind"; let the chart talk to you. It won't lie if you're careful how you do it.


Formations are more potent than single aspects (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts). The yod is a formation composed of a sextile and two quincunxes. It is a "quincunx formation", and is of the unsettling, constantly irritating nature of that non-aspect. It can cause very difficult and hard-to-get-at problems. It operates, for the most part, on unconscious levels.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-29-2019 at 03:47 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 08-29-2019, 04:41 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Of course if several amateur astrologer wannabes tell you that, then it must be true. People also say that you can have grand configurations with with asteroids and points, but no professional astrologer would agree with that.

I guess you can believe what you want to believe, since there are almost no professionals on this forum.
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  #7  
Unread 08-29-2019, 05:34 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

"...tell you that..."

What does "that" refer to? What is it that must be true?

And just a curiosity of mine.... Are you a professional astrologer?

Or just another wannabe?

Your aura of condescension is stunning!

Perhaps you would be more comfortable, feel more at home, in a forum composed entirely of professionals who meet your exacting standards, so that you might mingle with people of your caliber.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-29-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 08-29-2019, 06:24 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
"...tell you that..."

What does "that" refer to? What is it that must be true?

And just a curiosity of mine.... Are you a professional astrologer?

Or just another wannabe?

Your aura of condescension is stunning!

Perhaps you would be more comfortable, feel more at home, in a forum composed entirely of professionals who meet your exacting standards, so that you might mingle with people of your caliber.
Well said G
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  #9  
Unread 08-29-2019, 06:49 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

Perhaps you would be more comfortable, feel more at home, in a forum composed entirely of professionals who meet your exacting standards, so that you might mingle with people of your caliber.
Of course. Most people would like to be surrounded by professionals that they could learn from rather than from amateurs who are just as likely not to have an accurate view. I'd much rather go to a dentist who had skills or a doctor with real skills.

Its not a question of meeting my exacting standards, but in being with skilled practitioners who I can learn from. If you choose to see that as condescending toward the many amateurs that inhabit the many many forums, then that is certainly your privilege.

However, I'm afraid that when it comes to condescending attitudes to people, you are no stranger either("Well, by golly, if you want a yod you should have one"), your comment about a certain poster being able to have a YOD if they want one fits that(I'm betting neither you nor anyone else here ever heard of Al Morrison or even maybe Ebertin) . The reality is that most "astrologers" I meet online don't even own their own software tools, and get all they know on astrology from the internet. Just imagine going to a dentist who was trained entirely on the internet.

Last edited by Samantha Bean; 08-29-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 08-29-2019, 07:00 PM
TreasureForever TreasureForever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
A Yod can only exist when the apex planet is the slowest moving of the three, otherwise its just two inconjuncts.


Yours is Pluto, so you don't have a Yod.
What is the difference between just two inconjuncts and a yod?
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  #11  
Unread 08-29-2019, 08:04 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
Of course. Most people would like to be surrounded by professionals that they cjould learn from rather than from amateurs who are just as likely not to have an accurate view. I'd much rather go to a dentist who had skills or a doctor with real skills.

Its not a question of meeting my exacting standards, but in being with skilled practitioners who I can learn from. If you choose to see that as condescending toward the many amateurs that inhabit the many many forums, then that is certainly your privilege.

However, I'm afraid that when it comes to condescending attitudes to people, you are no stranger either("Well, by golly, if you want a yod you should have one"), your comment about a certain poster being able to have a YOD if they want one fits that(I'm betting neither you nor anyone else here ever heard of Al Morrison or even maybe Ebertin) . The reality is that most "astrologers" I meet online don't even own their own software tools, and get all they know on astrology from the internet. Just imagine going to a dentist who was trained entirely on the internety.

Gosh No. After 47 years of astrology, no Ebertin, no Morrison. In the dark.

How long does it take you to cast a chart with pencil, paper, and those cumbersome tables?

Take a chart with birth data redacted. Tell me time and place of birth. I can do that, because I understand how a horoscope is put together. No computer needed. Granted, it's just a parlor trick, but it does speak to skill. Wanna try it?

On 3 separate occasions I have discovered errors in the database of online astrology programs and the errors were corrected. Two were incorrect geo-coordinates, one a post-war time error in the Baltic countries (that one was on astrodienst).

If you want people (like me, for instance) to form an impression of you as a Know-it-all and arrogant person, let me congratulate you on your success.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-29-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 08-31-2019, 03:29 AM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Take a chart with birth data redacted. Tell me time and place of birth. I can do that, because I understand how a horoscope is put together. No computer needed. Granted, it's just a parlor trick, .
Right! Its a Parlor trick. I had all the blanks and Michaelson's Palcidus tables in 1969. But the first computer program I ever bought with my spanking new Laser 128 in 1987 was one to do astrology and progressions(on 5 inch floppies yet).

I don't think I even own the book with the directions any more.

I don't go looking for mistakes in tables, just not anal enough for that.

'Course back then, in college, the starter question was "What's your sign?" I would say, "What's your rising sign?" Everyone looked at me like I was from Mars.

Last edited by Samantha Bean; 08-31-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 08-31-2019, 03:37 AM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasureForever View Post
What is the difference between just two inconjuncts and a yod?

Al Morrison, a deceased astrologer who studied these things back in the last century and who I agree with, stated that its not a YOD unless the apex planet(the point where the two inconjuncts meet) is the slowest of the three planets.


In a yod, two planets are sextile to each other, and both are then quincunx to a third planet. And the third planet has to be slowest moving of the three.


So I mispoke. THE OP does have a YOD since the Apex planet is Pluto, the slowest moving planet of all.
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  #14  
Unread 08-31-2019, 10:30 AM
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Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
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According to this page a Yod is only valid if the apex planet is the fastest moving planet

https://therealastrology.com/ask-kevin-topics/aspects-a-aspect-patterns/186-yods-god-gives-us-the-finger.html

Karen Hamaker who wrote the Yod book will call the formation a Yod regardless of if the apex planet is moving fast or slow. She also uses the angles.

This astrologer count both slow and fast planets.

https://sisterrayastrology.com/power.htm

I believe that quincunxes show fragmentation. During your childhood you had to fragment yourself and you now have different parts within you pulling in different directions. In order to move ahead the inner parts need to pull towards the same direction. As a Yod bearer you have to work on connecting to your inner parts and validate them all and find ways for them all to be on board when you want to move ahead. Otherwise you end up feeling stuck and depressed.

The difference between quincunxes and having a Yod is that a quincunx show fragmentation and two planets who dont cooperate. A Yod is a formation where three points interact and if you can make them cooperate they can be channeled through the apex planet. It is supposed to give some special talent and a sense of having a mission.

You have Mars at the apex and it is conjunct Chiron. So your mission is related to Mars and Chiron. Ask yourself what you feel passionate about. We are given the wounds that we are meant to help others to heal, so try to understand your Mars conjunct Chiron.

If I were you I would also focus on integrating Neptune. Neptune is in a harsh aspect to several of your planets and it squares your NN. You need to find a way to integrate the energy in order to balance your nodes. Im thinking that you may let other people take charge and then you drift along. With Neptune we are supposed to stay grounded and drift along with our inner inspiration and tune in to the connection we can feel
with others at a deep level. While we do this we also need to see the people clearly. We can use Neptune to see the light at the end of a dark tunnel and feel hope, but we should not use it to create delusions about us being on cloud nine when we are in a dark tunnel.

Pluto opposite Sun and square Moon makes me think that there have been power issues with other people. A friend of mine has Mars conjunct Chiron. She sometimes asserts her needs and wants too much and sometimes too little.

I have one Yod with Mercury/Chiron at the apex and one with Saturn at the apex. I see Yods as very challenging.
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  #15  
Unread 08-31-2019, 04:35 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

"If I were you, I would focus on integrating Neptune."

I can't think of a fuzzier, more out-of-focus planet than Neptune.

Explain how to focus on a planet that is by nature unfocused. The symbol for Neptune is Psy; the evanescent Psyche.

Consider:
When Pluto was demoted from planet to dwarf, when he was cast out of The Royal Order of Great and Noble Planets by yhe IAU at Prague in 2006...why the surprise?

Pluto rules OUTCASTS, and he is chief among them. It was [is] in Pluto's nature, and could not have been otherwise.

We human beings, for all the power we believe ourselves to have, do not have power over ourselves. Which is why 90% of all Psychoanalysts own big yachts.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-31-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 08-31-2019, 09:17 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
Right! Its a Parlor trick. I had all the blanks and Michaelson's Palcidus tables in 1969. But the first computer program I ever bought with my spanking new Laser 128 in 1987 was one to do astrology and progressions(on 5 inch jfloppies yet).

I don't think I even own the book with the directions any more.

I don't go looking for mistakes in tables, just not anal enough for that.

'Course back then, in college, the starter question was "What's your sign?" I would say, "What's your rising sign?" Everyone looked at me like I was from Mars.
I didn't go looking for mistakes in tables. I was working with charts, discovered that something was wrong, found what the error was, and reported it to the online program used globally by astrologers to cast charts. Even the anal have their uses.

Recovering birth data from a chart may be a parlor trick. But if you can't do it, why the disparagement? It is a demonstration of astrological skill, and you apparently come up short.

Instead of looking down on and criticizing everyone, try treating them as equals (even though they're not goes without saying) and showering them with compliments. Just see what happens.

Love, G

PS: Back in ' 72, when I began my adventure in astrology, there were no computers. I had a slide rule and tables of logarithms. Unfortunately there was no "online" and I had to read books. And teach myself.

PSS or PPS: Mars is apex of the yod given here. You misspoke again. Gosh, this is getting to be downright embarrassing.

And it is a yod, despite what your learned mentor may have said. It is weak and fading, but a yod nevertheless. You and your mentor may say nay (and that is ok), but I am my own authority, thank you.

It is Michelson, not Michaelson.

My classmates in college did not look at me as if I were from Mars, because I didn't ask them questions designed to make them look stupid.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-31-2019 at 11:20 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 08-31-2019, 09:23 PM
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Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
"If I were you, I would focus on integrating Neptune."

I can't think of a fuzzier, more out-of-focus planet than Neptune.

Explain how to focus on a planet that is by nature unfocused. The symbol for Neptune is Psy; the evanescent Psyche.

Consider:
When Pluto was demoted from planet to dwarf, when he was cast out of The Royal Order of Great and Noble Planets by yhe IAU at Prague in 2006...why the surprise?

Pluto rules OUTCASTS, and he is chief among them. It was [is] in Pluto's nature, and could not have been otherwise.

We human beings, for all the power we believe ourselves to have, do not have power over ourselves. Which is why 90% of all Psychoanalysts own big yachts.



What I mean by focusing on Neptune is that there are things related to Neptune that needs to be dealt with/integrated. Art, imagination, faith, the sea, compassion, unconditional love, being open to see possibilities and many other things are related to Neptune.

I understand your perspective. I believe that it is possible to break free from patterns and transform. I am very different from the person I used to be and people treat me differently now.

There is a lot of information out there and lots of theories and thoughts about everything. Everyone should believe in what feels like the truth for them.
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  #18  
Unread 08-31-2019, 09:52 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Let's see. I will join Whats'isname, the famous French
painter (artist) in Tahiti by sailing the ocean on a raft made of imagination and faith, distributing compassion and unconditional love to all the islanders I meet on the way...and do all this by imposing my will on Life.

I can't talk much about books and theories, but I've lived with a powerful Neptune for over 3/4 of a century, and perhaps that counts for something. Good luck.

I have a hunch that Neptune is bigger than you, and will have his way.

Also related to Neptune...
Insane asylums and the insane.
Addicts and addictions.
Hypersensuality and perversions.
Anaesthesia and an unfeeling nature.
Dissolution in all forms.
Utter confusion, disorientation, meaninglessness......
Etc.

Neptune comes as a package, not just the parts we like.

And Neptune is psi...the unconscious mind. Beyond reach.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-31-2019 at 10:26 PM.
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  #19  
Unread 09-01-2019, 02:20 AM
wan wan is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I didn't go looking for mistakes in tables. I was working with charts, discovered that something was wrong, found what the error was, and reported it to the online program used globally by astrologers to cast charts. Even the anal have their uses.

Recovering birth data from a chart may be a parlor trick. But if you can't do it, why the disparagement? It is a demonstration of astrological skill, and you apparently come up short.

Instead of looking down on and criticizing everyone, try treating them as equals (even though they're not goes without saying) and showering them with compliments. Just see what happens.

Love, G

PS: Back in ' 72, when I began my adventure in astrology, there were no computers. I had a slide rule and tables of logarithms. Unfortunately there was no "online" and I had to read books. And teach myself.

PSS or PPS: Mars is apex of the yod given here. You misspoke again. Gosh, this is getting to be downright embarrassing.

And it is a yod, despite what your learned mentor may have said. It is weak and fading, but a yod nevertheless. You and your mentor may say nay (and that is ok), but I am my own authority, thank you.

It is Michelson, not Michaelson.

My classmates in college did not look at me as if I were from Mars, because I didn't ask them questions designed to make them look stupid.
But you call people "the anal". Isn't this disparagement, too?
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  #20  
Unread 09-01-2019, 08:35 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Originally Posted by wan View Post
But you call people "the anal". Isn't this disparagement, too?
She referred to me as anal (said she wasn't so anal), so I referred to myself as anal...as a general statement. You're not a native speaker of English?
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  #21  
Unread 09-01-2019, 12:12 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
Right! Its a Parlor trick. I had all the blanks and Michaelson's Palcidus tables in 1969.
This absolutely bowled me over, Samantha. By your many previous comments on this and another forum regarding techniques I always 'imagined' you to be around the late 20's early 30's, putting into practise that which/how you had been previously taught and considered the only way.

I do think that any astrologer is encouraged, and maybe even hypnotised in thought by the teachers and reading materials with which they are associated. I know I am. Yet I don't take it all as 'written in stone' and am always looking for and am ready to hear new ideas. Whether I accept and take them as gospel is something else.

Quote:
greybeard: I have discovered errors in the database of ..an... astrology program(s) and the errors were corrected
.

Same here. I'm a WWII babe born in U.K.Double Summer time. My chart erected through hand made calculations and written book(s). One of those taking lessons with me came up with a different birth time and chart. We discovered and she pointed out to the Dutch software programmer that DST was not calculated. He refused to believe or accept that he had failed to verify wartime DST in his calculation programme. He was proven wrong.
His reply? There wouldn't be many doing charts for wartime U.K. He didn't alter the programme!!!

Quote:
JUPITERASC
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
YOD


Also known as the Finger of Fate

or the Finger of God
Yod is the name given to
two planets in opposition
connected to two other planets
one by semi-sextiles
and the other by quincunxes.
I didn't know and have never read of this. Is it a technique particular to the Traditional concepts?
I remember Wilson once describing 'the boomerang' planet. Would this be the same/similar effect?

Never heard the inference by Samantha either, that the slowest planet has to be at the apex.
I've never queried that the YOD figure - finger of God(Fate) - was the 2 planets in sextile each in a quincunx/inconjunct to the 3rd (apex) planet.

My husband has what would be considered as 3 YODS in his chart.
1) Uranus sextile Pluto within 2 degrees orb each quincunx Mercury.
2) Mars (conjunct Uranus within 4 degrees) sextile Pluto each quincunx Mercury,
3)Mercury sextile Venus within 2 degrees each inconjunct Uranus.
There is no planet in opposition to apex planet and to sextile.
According to methods mentioned, these aspects are not considered to be called a Yod. Yet I would vouch for their independent validity.

Admittedly, Moon opposes only Mercury, and Venus squares Pluto, yet I don't think that these account for his extreme irrational flare up of temper when Mars-Uranus-Pluto combat controlled Mercury in Capricorn.
And I've long said that he should be thankful that I study astrology or the Venus-Mercury to Uranus would have seen a divorce years ago.

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  #22  
Unread 09-01-2019, 02:42 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

When I let astrodienst know of their error, it was fixed within 10 mins. Very reliable site in my experience.
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  #23  
Unread 09-02-2019, 04:43 AM
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

First of all, you have a good chart.

Sun in taurus is good because it leads to enlightened minds

Ascendant is not bad either
You wonder about the Neptune Plut Mars yod?

It stands for communication problems, as Mars is in a communicative sign,,

Also it can lead to job problems (Neptune in Capricorn)

Yods can be problems.

Realistically, Mars inconjunct Neptune is a good aspect, but sometimes it can be distracting.

Your Neptune is well aspected though

Trust your intuition is what Neptune says
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  #24  
Unread 09-02-2019, 03:55 PM
wan wan is offline
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Re: What do Yod's in a natal chart indicate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
You're not a native speaker of English?
Take it easy, dude. I meant nothing offensive by that.

Last edited by wan; 09-02-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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