Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Opal

Opal

Premium Member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Opal said:
With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
Click to expand...

The Ecliptic is the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. From our perspective on Earth, it's a circle, delineated by the transiting Sun. Both tropicalists and sideralists choose to divide it into 12 equal, 30 degree intervals.
What shifts due to Earth's "wobble" as it rotates on its axis isn't the Ecliptic, it's two separate lines in the plane of the Ecliptic and through the Earth in the center of the circle of the mathematically divided zodiacs. These two lines can be used to determine the Astrological Ages, one line for sidereal, the other for tropical.
**********************************************
Sidereally, it's the Line of Intersection of the circle of Earth's orbital plane (which is used for the zodiac), and the circle of Earth's Equatorial plane. This is known as the Equinoctial Line, because the Earth's axis relative to the transiting Sun in the Earth-centered (Geocentric) system is at 90 degrees (perpendicular) at those two points on opposite sides of the circle, which is when the Sun's geocentric path crosses the Celestial Equator.
Earth's wobble causes "Precession of the Equinox", which means that the Equinoctial Line transits the 12 Sign-divisions of the sidereal zodiac. That's where the sidereal Ages come in.
Tropically, it's a different kind of line that can be used to determine the Ages in tropical coordinates, a terrestrial line that transits the zodiac due to Earth's wobble. The Equinoctial Line is already in use, positioning the tropical version of the 12 Sign-boundaries, so it has no movement relative to the tropical Signs. However, another terrestrial feature is the elliptical shape of Earth's orbit, with the "Line of Apsides" dividing it in half down the center.
One end of this center-line is where the Earth is closest to the Sun, Earth's "Perihelion", which has become known astrologically as the "Diamond-point". The other end is its aphelion, where the Earth is farthest from the Sun. This orbital center-line can be used to determine the tropical Ages as it transits the tropical zodiac.
*******************************************
So, in both cases, it's about Precession due to Earth's wobble that enables us to track and describe the Ages, utilizing these 2 different terrestrial lines--Precession of the Perihelion for the tropical Ages, and Precession of the Equinox for the sidereal Ages.
 
Last edited:
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Opal said:
With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
Click to expand...

Opal, the Precession of the Equinox, which is what I believe you mean, occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every 72 years. (You wrote it as 7200 years.)
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
david starling said:
Opal, the Precession of the Equinox, which is what I believe you mean, occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every 72 years. (You wrote it as 7200 years.)
Click to expand...

I got my information from the siderealist astrologer Thomas H Burgoyne for one......7200 years for the click and the above written information........72 years is pretty quick......where do you get that information from?
 
S

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Robert Hand's dad was a heliocentrist, aswell as Hand before knowing that there's a potent astrological text from Mediterranean. For now, Hand seems to follow what Babylonian had invented, you might love to read 'em, ds. Just sayin. :biggrin:
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Opal said:
I got my information from the siderealist astrologer Thomas H Burgoyne for one......7200 years for the click and the above written information........72 years is pretty quick......where do you get that information from?
Click to expand...

1 degree per about 72 years is standard information. For the Age of sidereal Pisces, which nearly all practitioners of sidereal astrology believe is still ongoing, it's actually 71.6 years, but there is a small amount of long-term variation. The rounded-up 72 years per degree gives a 2160 year (30 degrees X 72 years per degree) sidereal Age, meaning that one end of the Equinoctial Line, known as the Vernal Point (V.P.) moves Retrograde from one sidereal Sign-boundary to the next, in that length of time.
Perhaps Burgoyne had something else in mind, other than a sidereal Age of Pisces shifting to a sidereal Age of Aquarius, which is the conventional basis for discussions about the astrological Ages.
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

SunConjunctUranus said:
Robert Hand's dad was a heliocentrist, aswell as Hand before knowing that there's a potent astrological text from Mediterranean. For now, Hand seems to follow what Babylonian had invented, you might love to read 'em, ds. Just sayin. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

First astrology book I read was Robert Hand's "Horoscope Symbols".
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

In Horoscope Symbols, R. Hand speculated about an astrological indicator, a measured point of some kind, that would represent our own planet's astrological effect on a Chart. Only time I've seen that idea in print. That's when I realized something he didn't--that it was the Age Indicator, which moves due to Earth's wobble as it rotates.
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

I'm still waiting for an actual, hand-drawn natal-chart by Morin himself, to determine whether he was tropical or sidereal. Also, if sidereal, what ayanamsa? He wrote a lot that's still in existence, must be at least ONE such chart available. Here's a conspiracy theory for you: The tropicalists who first studied his methods didn't want anyone to KNOW he was siderealist, so they removed that information from their research! :surprised:
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

What I'm saying is, Precession matters Big Time, both tropically and sidereally, as to how we relate as a species to the mundane realm (tropical), and the spiritual realm (sidereal).
It's not just for locating Sign-boundaries and determining sidereal SRs. It's for how we function collectively in the real world.
Where do you think all this new technology is coming from? It's world-wide now, with just few pockets of resistance.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

david starling said:
What I'm saying is,
Precession matters
Big Time,
both tropically
and sidereally,


as to how we relate as a species to the mundane realm (tropical), and the spiritual realm (sidereal).
It's not just for locating Sign-boundaries and determining sidereal SRs. It's for how we function collectively in the real world.
Where do you think all this new technology is coming from? It's world-wide now, with just few pockets of resistance.
Click to expand...
furthermore

Martin Gansten
author of Primary Directions: Astrology's Old Master Technique
a siderealist

has stated

Quote:

Precessing tropicalists just want to have it both ways. :smile:

Papretis, a siderealist commented:
Quote:

Personally the logic behind the precession corrected return charts
appeals little to me.

Either it's pure tropical returns, or sidereal returns.
If astrologers have found the sidereal / precession corrected returns charts to work,
that may hint about the validity of the sidereal zodiac in general.
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Well David, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see the path of the sun moving that quickly. La Clef and La Clef Hermetique chapters of The Light of Egypt make too much sense to me. 7200 years to a degree.

oops

Actually, we are talking about different things, I am talking about the shift of the path of the sun 1 degree north every 7200 years.....I just realized the problem.....yes 72 years is the amount of time allotted to 1 degree of an age........

Global warming, will happen more each 7200 years, as the path of the sun at its height hits closer to the poles.
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Opal said:
Well David, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see the path of the sun moving that quickly. La Clef and La Clef Hermetique chapters of The Light of Egypt make too much sense to me. 7200 years to a degree.

oops

Actually, we are talking about different things, I am talking about the shift of the path of the sun 1 degree north every 7200 years.....I just realized the problem.....yes 72 years is the amount of time allotted to 1 degree of an age........

Global warming, will happen more each 7200 years, as the path of the sun at its height hits closer to the poles.
Click to expand...

So, an increase in Axial Tilt. It's at 23 1/2 degrees now at Solitice. I'll check what astronomers predict about a serious increase. Sometimes, even a 1 degree change can make a big difference.
 
Top