Can You Really Predict Death?

waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I also wanted to mention another problem re: the question, "Can astrologers predict death?" There was a human interest story this evening on the CBC about a cancer patient who chose physician assisted death, which was basically scheduled in advance of the time of his natural death.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/medically-assisted-dying-canadians-rob-rollins-1.4056700

This might be an interesting exercise in electional astrology, but physician assisted death seems more like a matter of choice (dare I say "free will") than fate over which the patient has no control.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Yes the BORDERS of the houses in whole sign are all 0; but the CUSP-originally meaning the "point" of the house, NOT its BORDER-is and always has been (since the time of the pre-house Circle of the Athela)-a projection of the ascending degree into each subsequent house: this is well established in, for example, commentaries to the works of Paulus Alexandrianus (4th century CE) by Heliodorus: astrodienst does not follow the projection of the ascendant as the cusp (sensitive point) in subsequent houses in its charting format for whole sign houses because quite simply they don't know any better (just as for a very long time astrodienst did not include the Manilius decans as a chart drawing option)...

Since converting from Placidus to whole sign (late 1990's) it has always been my practice to consider the cusp of whole sign houses as the sensitive degree of each house, projected from the ascending degree: I got this originally from the works of Robert Hand, and later from my study of Paulus Alexandrianus and his commentator, and also from various contemporary authors in their works describing the practice of Greco-Roman astrology, so its not something I made up: if one does not believe in the historical use of the ascending degree as the sensitive point (cusp) of subsequent houses as part and parcel of the whole sign house format, then one is simply ignoring what is already written and published about this aspect of the whole sign house format.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
It is a good calculator, and I used it in the past; however I pretty much make all calculations myself (referencing the old books, especially al-Birunni and Paulus Alexandrianus)
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
Yes the BORDERS of the houses in whole sign are all 0; but the CUSP-originally meaning the "point" of the house, NOT its BORDER-is and always has been (since the time of the pre-house Circle of the Athela)-a projection of the ascending degree into each subsequent house: this is well established in, for example, commentaries to the works of Paulus Alexandrianus (4th century CE) by Heliodorus: astrodienst does not follow the projection of the ascendant as the cusp (sensitive point) in subsequent houses in its charting format for whole sign houses because quite simply they don't know any better (just as for a very long time astrodienst did not include the Manilius decans as a chart drawing option)...

Since converting from Placidus to whole sign (late 1990's) it has always been my practice to consider the cusp of whole sign houses as the sensitive degree of each house, projected from the ascending degree: I got this originally from the works of Robert Hand, and later from my study of Paulus Alexandrianus and his commentator, and also from various contemporary authors in their works describing the practice of Greco-Roman astrology, so its not something I made up: if one does not believe in the historical use of the ascending degree as the sensitive point (cusp) of subsequent houses as part and parcel of the whole sign house format, then one is simply ignoring what is already written and published about this aspect of the whole sign house format.
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Fair enough from an historical perspective, but I think today most astrologers define the boundary between two signs or two houses as the cusp. There's a brief discussion of the dual meanings in Fred Gettings, The Arkana Dictionary of Astrology. Traditional western astrologer Deborah Houlding defines cusps as the dividing line between one house or sign than the next in her book Houses: Temples of the Sky, p. 128.

Michael Munkasey seems to mean cusps as the boundaries between houses in: https://www.scribd.com/doc/6495552/An-Astrological-House-Formulary

You might want to take up with Alois Treindl at Astrodienst the possibility that he "doesn't know any better" in the depiction of house cusps! Them's fightin' words.

But I think, indirectly, you make my point, that if astrologers do not even interpret what a house cusp means in the same way, then locating a valid Arabic part of death is a questionable calculation.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Allisonmarie862 said:
My head has been spinning lately over two separate ways of predicting death in astrology. Is it really possible to see in a child's chart which parent will die and when? This person claims to have solved it, but I can't figure out how to apply it.

https://astroeternity10.wordpress.c...in-the-family-from-the-chart-of-someone-else/

Then there's this method.

https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4405352/382851021/name/Pravir+Paddhati+Tutorials.pdf


I wonder if my inability to comprehend means it's something best left not understood.
I've always thought that death was possible under certain transits and conditions, but not so definite,
and it's so disturbing to think that it's already been decided to the day.
Do any of the more learned astrologers out there have opinions on either of these methods?
Click to expand...
keep in mind that ours is an amateur astrological learning forum
and also
responses to threads are entirely dependent on the particular methodology
favored by the individual astrologer
who may be a beginner with little or no experience
although we also have members with many years of astrological study completed
none of our members has any claim to being the final authority on this topic :smile:
Allisonmarie862 said:
I've been obsessing over a fear of my husband dying and leaving my son and I. It's completely irrational.
But I read a Sun-Pluto transit in the child's chart can mean this
and he has many aspects that indicate a broken home, of course they're open to interpretation.
He also has the Sun trine Pluto in his chart, which I've read indicates either the physical or metaphorical death of the father.
I have it too and in my case it was metaphorical.

I always wind up feeling so doom and gloom when I read astrology, worrying that worst case scenario will happen.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
You mention fearing the death of your husband
that's a not unusual fear, similarly fearing the death of loved ones is normal
and
If as you have said you "always wind up feeling so doom and gloom"
after reading astrology
because you worry over the "worst case scenario"
then perhaps
you would be wise to study some other aspect of astrology
that is not so "doom laden" from your perspective

as well as
studying the various methodologies for yourself
and applying these to charts of people known to you
or possibly celebrities who have reliable known birth data
ALSO
the study of the various forms of astrology would enable you to decide for yourself
whether or not
it IS possible for skilled astrologers who have studied the methodology to predict death
and
anyone who does NOT fear death is entitled to consult those astrologers for advice


 
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blackbery

Well-known member
nobody is alive to tell me when i was born. my birth certificate has a time on it which was typed and then crossed out and a different time written in pen.

approx 1/2 hr difference. i've played around with both times and others too
and what i have right now seems to be pretty bang on.

born during mercury rx!:wink:




JUPITERASC said:
Sometimes a relative recalls approximate time of birth or kept a diary :smile:
then studying the natal chart using rectification techniques
can bring clarity
Medical records or birth certificates are a good place to begin
but obviously you have already checked those
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
blackbery said:
nobody is alive to tell me when i was born.
my birth certificate has a time on it which was typed
and then crossed out
and a different time written in pen.

approx 1/2 hr difference.
i've played around with both times
and others too
and what i have right now seems to be pretty bang on.

born during mercury rx!:wink:
Click to expand...
Some have no written recorded time of birth at all so you're doing well :smile:
it's unusual to have typed times crossed out on a birth certificate
and a different time written in pen
birth certificate details cannot be changed once recorded
so the time written in pen could have been added BEFORE the certificate was officially verified
possibly a relative noticed an error and corrected it
or the typist noted the error themselves and corrected it
or some other reason
since you have an officially documented time of birth
it may be of interest to you to tweak the time using the Pre-natal Epoch
detailed instructions on how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
are FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
 
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blackbery

Well-known member
What you write is most interesting. Since the original long birth certificate came from the hospital, it never occured to me that my mother or father could have crossed out the typed time and written a different time in pen.
Or it could have been a nurse perhaps. Anyways,
I am lucky to have that document as you say and have rectified it to what it is now.
It appears to be right now. I did look at your link but have no idea what it all means and the calculations are beyond my understanding.:lol:

But Max Heindl!!!! OH, my, been ages since I read his book.:surprised:

Thanks so much for your help.




JUPITERASC said:
Some have no written recorded time of birth at all so you're doing well :smile:
it's unusual to have typed times crossed out on a birth certificate
and a different time written in pen
birth certificate details cannot be changed once recorded
so the time written in pen could have been added BEFORE the certificate was officially verified
possibly a relative noticed an error and corrected it
or the typist noted the error themselves and corrected it
or some other reason
since you have an officially documented time of birth
it may be of interest to you to tweak the time using the Pre-natal Epoch
detailed instructions on how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
are FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
blackbery said:

What you write is most interesting.
Since the original long birth certificate came from the hospital, it never occured to me that
my mother or father could have crossed out the typed time and written a different time in pen.
Or it could have been a nurse perhaps.
Anyways,
I am lucky to have that document as you say
and have rectified it to what it is now.
It appears to be right now.
I did look at your link but have no idea what it all means and the calculations are beyond my understanding.:lol:

But Max Heindl!!!! OH, my, been ages since I read his book.:surprised:

Thanks so much for your help.
Click to expand...

THEN THERE'S THE ANIMODAR METHOD :smile:
ILLUSTRATION AS FOLLOWS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
One last thing, chart rectification. How does this work? Could you show me?

Now that I have figured out the Animodar sure.

I'll use Professor Gumby's chart to keep it simple. That chart is a Preventional Chart. How do we know? Because the Moon is applying to the conjunction of the Sun having completed its opposition to the Sun. So we need to cast a Lunation Chart for the Full Moon prior to birth (we would cast a Lunation Chart for the New Moon if the chart would be Conjunctional).

attachment.php


We use the Light Above Horizon for Full Moon Lunation Charts (and that would include a Lunar Eclipse for this purpose). That is the Sun at 28° Taurus 07'.

Which Planet has the greatest Dignity in the Sun? Venus does. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Venus is the Earth Sect Triplicity Ruler.

Now, switch back to the Natal Chart and look at Venus. To which is Venus closer in Degrees, the Ascendant or the Midheaven? Obviously the Midheaven at 1° Virgo 31'.

Yes, there are 30° in Virgo, but at Latitude 39°N07' how many degrees actually cross over the Midheaven as the Ascendant crosses the Horizon?

Look at the Right Ascensions of the Midheaven. We want the full 30° of Virgo so we subtract the Right Ascension at 0° Libra from the Right Ascension at 0° Virgo.

180°00' = 0° Libra at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0° Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
xxxxxxx

179°60'
152°05'
-------
027°55'

Now, the Midheaven is at 01°Virgo31' so how much Right Ascension is that?

153°32' = 1°31' Virgo at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0°00' Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
001°27'

We need the Hourly Distance of Venus.

Venus is at 4° Cancer 39'. Her Right Ascension is 95°04 and her Oblique Ascension is 74°30.

The Ascensional Difference is the Right Ascension minus the Oblique Ascension:

AD[Venus] = 95°04' - 74°30'

AD[Venus] = 20°34'

Venus is out-of-Bounds in this chart with a Declination of 24°N54' so we add the Ascensional Difference to 90° giving us 110°34' for the Semi-Diurnal Arc (we would subtract if the Declination was Negative and we would reverse that for those living in the Southern Hemisphere).

The Temporal Hours will be the Semi-Diurnal Arc divided by 6:

TH[Venus] = 110°34 / 6 = 18°25'

Then to find the Hourly Distance, we divide the Meridian Distance by 18°25'

How far away is Venus from the Midheaven by Right Ascension? We just subtract the RA of Venus from the Right Ascension of the Midheaven (RAMC).

Meridian Distance = 153°32' - 95°04'

Meridian Distance = 58°28'

Now we divide the Meridian Distance by the Temporal Hours to get the Hourly Distance

HD[Venus] = 58°28' / 18°25'

HD[Venus]= 3°10'

The Hourly Distance tells you the number of Houses away from the Meridian (either the MC or the IC) that a Planet is and that is what the whole number represents, and the fractional part is how far away from the Cusp of the House that Venus is.

Each House is essentially 2 Diurnal Hours. Think of the chart as a clock where the Ascendant is 6:00 AM so then 3 Houses or 6 Hours (3 * 2 = 6) later it is 12:00 PM and that is the Midheaven and the 6 Hours later is the Descendant at 6:00 PM and then 6 Hours later is the Nadir/IC at 12:00 AM and then we've come full circle back to the Ascendant at 6:00 AM in a 24-Hour period.

We just have to set up a simple proportion or a ratio:

27°55' : 2 = 1°27' : X

From our high school math, we know to cross-multiply and divide, and so we have:

2 * 1°27' / 27°55' = X

It's easier to use decimal notation:

2 * 1.45 / 27.91666 = X

2.9 / 27.91666 = X

0.03582 = X

So, um, what exactly is "0.03582" in Degrees?

It is less than 1°. That is what the big fat "0" means.

Let's multiply by 60 to convert to minutes:

60 * 0.03582 = 2.1492

That gives us 0°2.1492' of arc.

Multiply the 0.1492 * 60 = 8"

So there is a difference of 0°02'08"

Can we round that off? Sure, let's call it 0°02'

Now, there are 24 Hours in one day and 360° in the Zodiac Circle.

How many Degrees are in 1 Hour?

Simple, 360 / 24 = 15° and you might notice the longitudinal meridians around Earth are 0° 15° 30° etc and most of the Time Zones are based on those.

If there are 15° in 1 Hour, how many Degrees are in 1 Minute?

Simple, 15° in 60 Minutes or 1° every 4 Minutes.

And that is 30' every 2 Minutes or 15' every Minute/60 Seconds or 1' every 4 seconds.

So my birth time is off by about 8 or 9 seconds or so.

Now, if I was the Anal Retentive Astrologer, I would rip everything up, chuck it out the window and start with a whole new chart and post 30 "Read My Chart" threads about the new birth time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
Thanks for the help. I'll pay you back one day

Pay it forward. Attached Images
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Crosby Wealth.jpg (52.2 KB, 130 views)
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Gumby Wealth.jpg (51.4 KB, 96 views)
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Gumby Full Moon.jpg (37.5 KB, 96 views)
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Blackbery, I actually have different ToBs on my hospital record and birth certificate. I started using the former, but when I found the latter part way into my astrology studies, so many things just popped into place. As you work with astrology, you'll find the ToB that works best for you.

There is a concept in astrology of a chart that is radical, if not accurate right on the button.
 
B

blackbery

Well-known member
:smile:

I am working out the time of my death. Don't expect to get it down to the exact day/time but within a range of a couple of months.
Also, been studying Lilly and the like and it was very common back then for people to ask about their deaths to their astrologers.

Guess before the time of lawsuits!:happy:


JUPITERASC said:
Indeed :smile:
Click to expand...
 
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david starling

Well-known member
blackbery said:
:smile:

I am working out the time of my death. Don't expect to get it down to the exact day/time but within a range of a couple of months.
Also, been studying Lilly and the like and it was very common back then for people to ask about their deaths to their astrologers.

Guess before the time of lawsuits!:happy:
Click to expand...

Manner of death included? :crying:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
blackbery said:
:smile:

I am working out the time of my death.
Don't expect to get it down to the exact day/time
but within a range of a couple of months.
Also, been studying Lilly and the like
and it was very common back then for people to ask about their deaths to their astrologers.

Guess before the time of lawsuits!:happy:
Click to expand...
It's an interesting topic of study :smile:
 
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