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  #1  
Unread 01-15-2020, 08:52 PM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Hello all,

I am new here
Both of my children (A. is 4 and L. is almost 3 yrs old) have the moon placed in their 12th house. I have read some things on this...such as they may have a lack of emotion or that their mother (me) will pass early. As I am an empath and shower my children with affection every day and am home with them ( I work from home), I don't see how the moon will manifest in their 12th house.

I am also very healthy currently but have neptune in my 8th house of sag. so i guess it may be sudden and I will be unawares when it happens.

My question is, are there other indicators I can look for in my childrens' charts or my own which will help me to see if my death will be early or if I will be around to raise them?

I have attached my birth chart if anyone feels drawn to help me!
Blessings,
Jessica
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katydid (01-16-2020)
  #2  
Unread 01-16-2020, 01:47 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Originally Posted by EtherealRain View Post
Hello all,

I am new here
Both of my children (A. is 4 and L. is almost 3 yrs old) have the moon placed in their 12th house. I have read some things on this...such as they may have a lack of emotion or that their mother (me) will pass early. As I am an empath and shower my children with affection every day and am home with them ( I work from home), I don't see how the moon will manifest in their 12th house.

I am also very healthy currently but have neptune in my 8th house of sag. so i guess it may be sudden and I will be unawares when it happens.

My question is, are there other indicators I can look for in my childrens' charts or my own which will help me to see if my death will be early or if I will be around to raise them?

I have attached my birth chart if anyone feels drawn to help me!
Blessings,
Jessica

A person having the Moon in the 12th has a lot of potential descriptions----not only that their mother died young or was not emotional.

One description could be that their Mother was psychic/spiritual and/or unusual.

So I wouldn't worry that it means specifically that you will not be here to raise them.

In fact, you have the Sun and North Node in your 12th, so that right there could be why both your children have their Moons in the 12th. It is an apt description of their empath mother.

Mercury is the ruler of your 5th, of children. You have a nice trine to Neptune in the 8th. I can see how you shower your kids with love and affection.

There is also a Mercury/Pluto opposition. A very tight one with Pluto @ 2 Scorpio in the 6th.

How does that Mercury/Pluto opposition play out in your chart do you think?

Are you intense in your communications with others? Or secretive maybe?
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Unread 01-16-2020, 01:51 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

My moon is in the twelfth. My mother is nearly 75 and still alive and well.

Even if she suddenly died tomorrow, it would not be an early death.
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  #4  
Unread 01-16-2020, 03:22 AM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
A person having the Moon in the 12th has a lot of potential descriptions----not only that their mother died young or was not emotional.

One description could be that their Mother was psychic/spiritual and/or unusual.

So I wouldn't worry that it means specifically that you will not be here to raise them.

In fact, you have the Sun and North Node in your 12th, so that right there could be why both your children have their Moons in the 12th. It is an apt description of their empath mother.

Mercury is the ruler of your 5th, of children. You have a nice trine to Neptune in the 8th. I can see how you shower your kids with love and affection.

There is also a Mercury/Pluto opposition. A very tight one with Pluto @ 2 Scorpio in the 6th.

How does that Mercury/Pluto opposition play out in your chart do you think?

Are you intense in your communications with others? Or secretive maybe?
Hi there katydid! Thank you so much!
That's interesting because I am actually a tarot reader by profession! I've had natural empath abilities of sensing feelings of others since I was young but I repressed much of it. As for communications, I used to talk very little when I was young. Almost to the point of being mute but not around those I trusted. I'm still very introverted in public but will talk the ears off of family and friends. Mercury gave me many interests and means for expression during my introverted upbringing. For several years while in college, I was a horror writer and published some short stories and was working in public relations. Later and until last year, I was a teacher. The teacher/medium double life could be where that comes in? Lots of secrets there! lol.
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  #5  
Unread 01-16-2020, 03:25 AM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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My moon is in the twelfth. My mother is nearly 75 and still alive and well.

Even if she suddenly died tomorrow, it would not be an early death.
Thank you Osamenor!
This is comforting to know. Blessings to you and your mother <3
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Unread 01-16-2020, 03:57 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Jessica, I don't know what you are reading, but please throw those horrid books or articles a long way away.

Let's do the arithmetic. Roughly one twelfth of the human population will have their moon in the 12th house. For the entire planet. There are something like 7.7 billion people on earth. Divide by 12, and 641 million people would have Mom dying young. This is almost twice the entire population of the United States.

The demographic data just do not bear this out. The average life expectancy for American women born in 1985 is over 78 years. Of course, some women die sooner, but most will live into old age if they look after their health. But generally most of these women will live into their 70s, with the mortality rate increasing rapidly thereafter.

Then a lot depends upon the house system you choose. If you change to whole signs houses, your sun moves out of your 12th house and into your first.

There is a big debate in astrology about death prediction, but the astrologers who have studied the matter and still believe it can be done use far more sophisticated methods than simple readings of planets-in-houses.

Someone with the moon in the 12th may be a private person, who prefers to work behind the scenes.
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Last edited by waybread; 01-16-2020 at 04:00 AM.
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Unread 01-16-2020, 04:04 AM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Jessica, I don't know what you are reading, but please throw those horrid books or articles a long way away.

Let's do the arithmetic. Roughly one twelfth of the human population will have their moon in the 12th house. For the entire planet, this amounts to something like 7.7 billion people. Divide by 12, and 641 million people would have Mom dying young. This is almost twice the entire population of the United States.

The demographic data just do not bear this out. The average life expectancy for American women born in 1985 is over 78 years. Of course, some women die sooner, but most will live into old age if they look after their health.

Then a lot depends upon the house system you choose. If you change to whole signs houses, your sun moves out of your 12th house and into your first.

There is a big debate in astrology about death prediction, but the astrologers who have studied the matter and still believe it can be done use far more sophisticated methods than simple readings of planets-in-houses.

Someone with the moon in the 12th may be a private person, who prefers to work behind the scenes.
Thank you waybread! My sun is also in the 12th and my father passed when I was 6. But as you said, everyone goes at some point so perhaps I was scaring myself and projecting this onto my own life and abandonment issues. That is definitely why I wanted to get more opinions on this matter from those of you wonderful people who have more knowledge in this area I will admit I find a lot of this information online though I do also use books. Is there a specific book, site, or astrologer who may have more info on a system that is accurate on this subject?
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Unread 01-16-2020, 04:15 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

My daughter's sun is in the 12th house, and her dad at age 72 is still alive and kicking.

The sun in the 12th has the broader meaning of a father who is unavailable in some way. This could mean death, divorce, or abandonment; but also simply a dad who doesn't relate emotionally to his child/ren very well, or one whose job takes him away from the home for long periods.

I can't recommend anything on death prediction. First, because a lot of the material out there is inaccurate. Richard Houck, author of The Astrology of Death, greatly misjudged his own manner and timing of death. Death prediction is an accepted method in Vedic (jyotish) astrology, but then there are news reports of an astrologer predicting his own death date-- and nothing happened. Or the client who was so upset by his astrologer's death prediction that he committed suicide. This would be impossible if the original prediction were correct.

Today modern astrologers are more likely to talk about serious episodes or life-threatening times, because modern medicine has given everyone much longer life expectancies than people had back when the traditional methods of death prediction were developed.

My personal belief (which I don't ask anyone to share) is that our length-of-life is in God's hands; although people can shorten their lives through risky behavior. "Let go and let God." We don't do ourselves or our children a favour by worrying about death before it's time.

Just my 2c.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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Last edited by waybread; 01-16-2020 at 04:18 AM.
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Unread 01-16-2020, 04:52 AM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Yes, that makes sense! My father had divorced my mother and had drug addictions so that could have been the reflection of the sun in the 12th. I agree that stressing about an event which is inevitable is unnecessary. My death will come when it does. If I can in any way be around longer for my children I would like to be, just as any parent, though I can be overprotective (admittedly!). I do feel that predictive/health astrology is interesting however, and could help us to discover problem areas or avert specific incidents. For instance I had found information by Stefan Stenudd which uses the houses, planets, and aspects to pin point potential problems with health. And it is clear that these are potential areas of concern not a definite, depending on many factors. But I found the information there to be accurate about my own health issues. I guess I feel that there is more to explore in this area that could be helpful to us in a medical way. There are interesting ideas about fate and astrology. I've heard both opinions about how free will can change our stars or that fate is what determines our demise. Either way whether fate or free will, I believe there are certain actions that we can take to perhaps slow death down a little, if a little foresight is given (But I am biased on this as a card reader).
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  #10  
Unread 01-16-2020, 10:02 PM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

I subscribe to the modern astrologers' theory that "the stars impel, but they do not compel."

There are some good books out there on the field of medical astrology. If you look for them on amazon, I've got the ones by Nauman, Ridder-Patrick, and Cramer, but there are newer ones out now.

I think medical astrology can be helpful in learning about health problems. I don't see it as a substitute for modern medicine: as in, when my husband just tore a ligament out of his knee by falling on the ice, we took him to the ER and then for orthopedic surgery. Sometimes when the doctors don't have answers, medical astrology is worth considering.

The 1st and 6th houses indicate overall health. Then each planet, sign, and house rules a particular part of the body. We start with Aries and the first house ruling the head, then on down to Pisces and the 12th house ruling the feet.

Horary astrology is also worth learning, because it can offer responses to specific health questions.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 01-18-2020, 01:32 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Thank you so much for all of the information Waybread! It definitely helped to ease my mind. I will look into those authors and horay astrology! <3
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Unread 01-18-2020, 09:43 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Originally Posted by EtherealRain View Post
Hello all,

I am new here
Both of my children (A. is 4 and L. is almost 3 yrs old) have the moon placed in their 12th house. I have read some things on this...such as they may have a lack of emotion or that their mother (me) will pass early. As I am an empath and shower my children with affection every day and am home with them ( I work from home), I don't see how the moon will manifest in their 12th house.

I am also very healthy currently but have neptune in my 8th house of sag. so i guess it may be sudden and I will be unawares when it happens.

My question is, are there other indicators I can look for in my childrens' charts or my own which will help me to see if my death will be early or if I will be around to raise them?

I have attached my birth chart if anyone feels drawn to help me!
Blessings,
Jessica
Hi EtherealRain,

The first thing you need to understand is that astrology is not about a single celestial body. Astrology is about how a group of celestial bodies interact with each other within the context of their signs. So, we never look at a single celestial body like Moon, but we do look at Moon as it relates to other bodies in the context of their signs.

Whatever you're doing is not astrology. When you understand that, we can move onto the next concept, which is the signs.

Certain signs oppose each other; others trine each other, and that is obvious from triplicity: fire, earth, air and water. Other signs square each other and still others are in sextile.

Because that is true, there are some conclusions we can draw.

If H1 is Taurus (and it is for you) then H7 must be Scorpio. H7 cannot be a sign other than Scorpio.

Because H7 can only be Scorpio, that means H8 can only be Sagittarius.

Because H8 can only be Sagittarius, that means H9 can only be Capricorn, because Capricorn trines the Taurus H1, since both are of the earth triplicity.

So, Neptune is in H9, not H8, and none of that matters since Neptune is irrelevant.

In your chart, Pisces Moon sextiles Taurus H1 and thus must be H11 and not H12.

House systems are irrelevant and unnecessary, not to mention they are not rooted in astrology nor do they have any astrological basis. House systems (and there are many) are nothing more than arbitrary mathematical exercises in astronomy, which has nothing to do with astrology. They're simply an arbitrary mechanical means of overlaying the skies on a point on Earth at a particular time.

Because you looked at a single celestial body and refused to look at the entire chart, you failed to see there are neither indicators of a violent death nor are there indicators of a shortened life-span.

Taurus Sun H1 is an indicator of a long healthy life. That the luminaries (Sun and Moon) sextile reinforces that. That Jupiter is angular in H10 ruling H8 is another indicator. That Mars is moving to trine Jupiter is another.

Yes, Sun opposes retrograde H7 Saturn, but that would only suggest the early death of an older sibling or the father, not you.

So, you panicked for no reason at all simply because you looked at a single body instead of the entire chart, and reading the entire chart and not a single body is what astrology is all about.

Regarding the placement of Moon in H12 in your children's charts, since you don't understand the signs, I have to question whether Moon really is in H12 and not H1 or H11.

Even if Moon actually is in H12, so what?

Sorry, that is not astrology.

First, it is Moon and Venus that represent the mother or any female in a chart.

Second, to portend an early death for the mother, Moon, Venus and Sun must be impeded by Mars or Saturn or both, and Mars and Saturn must actually be acting as malefics, and they must be situated so or ruling H4/H8.

H11 Mars is not malefic. H12 Saturn is not malefic, either.

Impeded means Moon, Venus and Sun are joined, square or in opposition to Mars or Saturn or both. Generally, Moon has to be waning, meaning Moon is left of Sun (waxing Moon is right of Sun and moving toward the opposition to Sun).

Jupiter sexile/trine to Moon, Venus or Sun from an angle will limit it to a shortened life-span, but not a premature death.

After you learn the signs, you need to know the nature and type of signs. Gemini, Virgo, Libra, Aquarius and part of Sagittarius are human signs, indicating death at the hands of another (but not necessarily murder). Taurus and Capricorn are crushing/falling like tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, plane crashes, car accidents, industrial and work accidents (just did a chart for a concrete worker where the 6th floor collapsed onto the 4th floor of the building they were working in), slips and falls, jumpers etc. Water signs are typically drowning, suffocation, asphyxiation, pneumonia, congestive heart failure, although Scorpio is usually toxins/poisons from bites or anaphylactic shock from bee/wasp stings, shellfish or peanut allergies. Fire signs mostly fire, fevers and blood-borne diseases and pathogens, aneurysms, strokes and such. Part of Sagittarius is animals like being gored by a ram, ox, steer, deer, mauled by a dog or bear, trampled in a stampede and things like that.

Anyway, whatever source or website you're using, stop, because you're getting nothing but bad info and worse than that, bad astrology habits.
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Unread 01-19-2020, 02:51 AM
EtherealRain EtherealRain is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi EtherealRain,



Jupiter sexile/trine to Moon, Venus or Sun from an angle will limit it to a shortened life-span, but not a premature death.

After you learn the signs, you need to know the nature and type of signs. Gemini, Virgo, Libra, Aquarius and part of Sagittarius are human signs, indicating death at the hands of another (but not necessarily murder). Taurus and Capricorn are crushing/falling like tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, plane crashes, car accidents, industrial and work accidents (just did a chart for a concrete worker where the 6th floor collapsed onto the 4th floor of the building they were working in), slips and falls, jumpers etc. Water signs are typically drowning, suffocation, asphyxiation, pneumonia, congestive heart failure, although Scorpio is usually toxins/poisons from bites or anaphylactic shock from bee/wasp stings, shellfish or peanut allergies. Fire signs mostly fire, fevers and blood-borne diseases and pathogens, aneurysms, strokes and such. Part of Sagittarius is animals like being gored by a ram, ox, steer, deer, mauled by a dog or bear, trampled in a stampede and things like that.

Anyway, whatever source or website you're using, stop, because you're getting nothing but bad info and worse than that, bad astrology habits.
Hello AJ Astrology! Many thanks for the in-depth response! I do look at the entire chart but as you presumed, I don't yet grasp all of the transits because I am still learning. I am having trouble locating any trustworthy information on medical astrology or predictive astrology which even talks about death which is part of the problem.

It's a little sad to think that I spent so much time researching only to not have been researching the right material. Are there are any authors/books/websites that are recommended?

Also the last part of what you were explaining with the signs and ways that one can die, was that in reference to the sign that Jupiter is in or another planet/house?
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Unread 01-19-2020, 04:18 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Ethereal Rain, the Hellenistic astrologers had different formulae for predicting length-of-life, another way of saying whether someone would die young or of old age. The trouble is that these methods don't entirely agree, and they produce different results.

I agree with much of what AJ Astrology says.

But these methods of death prediction were developed prior to modern medicine and public health measures. The average life expectancy for (white, non-drug user) women in the US is now around 80. This has to mean that the old horoscopic means of predicting death cannot be correct. There just is no way to correlate today's actuarial tables with the predictable transits of planets through the houses.

In contrast, average life expectancy in ancient Rome was probably in the late 20s/early 30s.

You might find more correlation with planetary positions for people in poor countries with low average life expectancies, but then something like an unchecked Ebola virus epidemic is going to wipe out everybody, independently of their natal charts. Ditto with something like a big tsunami. Americans killed in 9-11 died simultaneously, regardless of their horoscopes.

However, if you really want to get into death prediction, this site may be of interest:

http://www.deathclock.com/
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 01-19-2020, 04:21 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Quote:
In contrast, average life expectancy in ancient Rome was probably in the late 20s/early 30s.
The average life expectancy in the Roman Empire was probably around 20, but if the child reached the age of five, the average life expectancy for that person rose to around 45. Infant mortality skews the data. People aged mostly similar to modern day, though obviously old age wasn't as common.

Quote:
You might find more correlation with planetary positions for people in poor countries with low average life expectancies, but then something like an unchecked Ebola virus epidemic is going to wipe out everybody, independently of their natal charts. Ditto with something like a big tsunami. Americans killed in 9-11 died simultaneously, regardless of their horoscopes.
Mundane > natal. Don't you think that the length of life has to do with the spirit (by which I mean the life-force, not the ''soul'') of the person, not just his body? Ptolemy viewed them as separate subjects. The Bible suggests they are separate.

@EtherealRain you can check the following book and my thread:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=130820

AJ is right that you need angular aspects of malefics to the Moon or Venus, though I disagree with the rest of his methodology.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-19-2020 at 04:36 AM.
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Unread 01-19-2020, 04:39 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

Petosiris, I am very familiar with the demographic issues of determining historical demographic trends, and almost mentioned infant mortality. I just thought it would be too much of a digression.

In my astrology, life-and-death matters are controlled by the Creator of the cosmos.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 01-19-2020, 04:45 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Petosiris, I am very familiar with the demographic issues of determining historical demographic trends, and almost mentioned infant mortality. I just thought it would be too much of a digression.

In my astrology, life-and-death matters are controlled by the Creator of the cosmos.
Yes, the Maker decides how long one person lives and when one person dies, not his body.
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Unread 01-19-2020, 06:43 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

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Ethereal Rain, the Hellenistic astrologers had different formulae for predicting length-of-life, another way of saying whether someone would die young or of old age. The trouble is that these methods don't entirely agree, and they produce different results.


However, if you really want to get into death prediction, this site may be of interest:

http://www.deathclock.com/
Thank you Waybread! The perspective that I was viewing predictive/health astrology from was more the inherent weaknesses that our bodies were born with as a result of being born into the current planetary energies and not actually a solid date/time of death.

So I was thinking for example that since I was born with my 6th house in libra with Saturn and Pluto, that there would be an increased burden on my health in the intestines/kidneys (libra). (I have had this issue with assimilation since i was young, actually so I wonder if there is a correlation?)

Knowing this information could then help me to watch for signs of this as well as possibly prevent it or slow it with diet, doctor visits, etc. So is this way off, then? I'm definitely going to look at everyone's links and read up on them.

As for the deathclock- now that is something that scares me Waybread, haha!
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Unread 01-19-2020, 09:10 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

I do think there is something to medical astrology. Just the caution that planets, signs, and houses all have multiple interpretations, and the most dire ones may not be the correct ones.

Also, your houses may vary depending upon the house system you use. If you have a late-degree ascendant (as I do) or were born at a high latitude, the difference in houses between a quadrant house system like Placidus and an equal house or whole signs system can be dramatic. So its good to play around and see what fits and what doesn't. The Astrodienst free charts pages have many house systems to choose from.

Just for example, I have natal Mars in Pisces in the 6th house (in most house systems) opposite Saturn in Virgo in the 12th. Saturn rules hard tissues of the body like bones and the teeth. Pisces and the 12th house rule the feet in medical astrology. I've had flat feet all my life, and some years ago they got to the point where I must wear serious orthotics in my (clunky) shoes. I began to get a lot of pins-and-needles feelings in my feet some years ago, and am now losing feeling in my feet, a condition called peripheral neuropathy. (I'm not diabetic, I just have problem feet.) So to use some key words here, with two malefic planets involved with bones (Saturn) and the feet (12th house, Pisces) it's perhaps unsurprising that I would develop this type of health (6th house) problem.

Sometimes I've had good luck using the Ebertin anatomical degrees, sometimes not. You might see if they work for you. https://www.astrologyweekly.com/astr...rrelations.php (Note that these start with 1 degree of a sign, not 0, so you may need to back up the Ebertin degrees by 1 if you use the conventional Astrodienst system.)

If you can spring for a few books, you might purchase a few on medical astrology. Also horary. One that I use a lot is J. Lee Lehman, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology, because then you're doing a chart for the moment of a question.
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Unread 01-31-2020, 10:01 PM
ScorpAsc5 ScorpAsc5 is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

My moon is in 12th (I am turning 30 in May) . My mother is alive and well, really hoping it continues. But unfortunately my father passed away when I was 11. People say moon in 12th for me represents loneliness and I can't even describe how lonely I feel - does not matter where I am and what I have, there is a very deep loneliness within my heart and life which relates to how I accepted the grief to lose my father at a very young age. Thanks.
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Unread 02-07-2020, 05:39 AM
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

I am so sorry to hear that ScorpAsc5. Thank you for adding a new perspective. Even though I was a lot younger when I lost my dad, I completely understand how you feel. I used to write fictional stories of finding my dad alive and well in another land. I hope my children never have to go through that but I know fate is fate. I still cry because there is a hollowness within me, though it is much less since my children were born. I will do my all to stay as healthy as possible to avoid it.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 04:43 AM
ExistBeyondDuality ExistBeyondDuality is offline
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Re: Early death? Both of my young children have their moon in their 12th

That is such useful information, thank you! I am new here and relatively new to studying Houses, so this is whole thread is insightful and fantastic! Your post was very well-put and eye-opening!
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