Drugs - your opinion?

Thank you all so much for opening up this thread for discussion; it has become a topic that has infiltrated into my family recently and I still struggle to bring it into terms that I can deal with.

First the magic: this morning in my meditation I was asking for guidance about the matter, and then decided to distract myself by delving back into my astrology. When I came to the forum this was the first post I read.
In my situation we learned only several months ago that my granddaughter, 21 years of age, has become addicted to heroin and soon encountered a near overdose. She did get into treatment, however was soon back home after only 2 months. As her grandmother I did have strong hope that she would be able to recover quite quickly.

As such yesterday, we went for a family visit for a holiday dinner and I was very much hoping that I could get through to her and get her to open up a bit. Suffice it to say she is a very independent and self-absorbed Aries and it is difficult to even get her to talk most times. I was awake for most of the night before, planning out what I hoped to say. Yet when we arrived she was just heading out the door and barely even said hello. I asked her if we could have a conversation for a bit first, but she was like the frightened horse ready to bolt.

Finally she did give in and stayed for a bit. I tried to speak with her alone; still her stance was very rigid and closed down. I thought she was capable of listening to some reason but that was not to be. Even I was taken aback by the amount of rage and anger she spouted forth and her unwillingness to even listen to my words. There have been issues for her with her mother over the years [Scorpio with Aries Moon] but even I was surprised by the amount of vehemence she carries within. I do understand the degree of emotional pain she is in and has been for years, but I did not fully appreciate the degree to which it eats her up inside. She has built up a very strong brick wall around herself over the years and I know she desperately needs to get counselling in order to break through it all, but does not know how to avail herself of it. She is currently highly rebellious, resistant and is not willing to open up to the love being offered up to her. I do get that and I guess I am just realizing that I do not have the skills to help her overcome this.
As always there are complications in the scenario, as her mother is going to be undergoing surgery in the new year, and I was trying to address that issue and getting her to understand how she would be needed to help out. I guess it is expecting too much to expect one person in recovery to be there for someone else needing recovery, and that saddens me deeply. Suffice it to say that the conversation did not last long, as she announced that she was moving out of the parents home [once again] on January 1st, so it was 'not her problem'. The lack of care shown felt like a blow to the the stomach. Without further ado, she stormed out of the house.
As such I felt utterly helpless and disappointed about the outcome and felt that even I had failed to get through. Today I am still struggling to process the emotional drama of the situation.

I am so thankful that there are people like you out there willing to speak up about the issues at hand, for indeed it is becoming an epidemic throughout the world: I live in the pacific northwest, and yesterday there were 9 deaths in our city because of the fentanyl tainted drugs being pushed aggressively on the streets; it is beginning to reach epidemic numbers especially in Vancouver. There is a huge outreach effort trying to treat the waves of overdoses out there, which after weeks of watching news about it, I have conflicting feelings about. It seems to me at this time to be a pointless effort and I can't help remembering the words of Jesus; let the dead bury the dead.

I see all these corpses lying about being resuscitated, knowing full well that it will all just happen over again the next day. My growing thought is that such people are not expecting to recover to live in an ongoing hell, and that perhaps there are many who are rather hoping to just end it all. Perhaps in the end it is really just about mass suicides and most are not really thankful to be brought back again; to me it is all too reminiscent of the black plague and other devastating diseases that continue to wipe out populations en-mass. To many this may seem dis-compassionate on my part, but nothing is farther from the truth to me; it comes from my spiritual faith in the belief that life on earth truly is about creating our own personal hell, or heaven. Many of these people are already dead and are really wanting to gain their own release through whatever means possible.

Again I thank you all for opening this door up for discussion and will definitely be following the thread more closely.
I wish you all a very happy holiday season and hope you can find some small piece of peace and joy during such stressful times. And blessed be those who are too late to retrieve. Blessed be those of us, as well, who must stand by the sidelines and do nothing more than just observe the destruction.

david starling said:

.....
Caffeine is a DRUG that speeds heart rate, raises blood pressure, and interferes with sleep molecules. It's dangerous when used as a substitute for sleep, both because adequate sleep is necessary for physical and mental health, and because when its effects wear off, grogginess and even dozing off can occur at a time when clearheaded alertness is necessary, such as when Commanding a Starship. Black tea, as in say, Earl Grey, has as much caffeine per cup as most coffee blends.

Click to expand...

Oh, great, David. Are we back to "two wrongs make a right" territory?

The fact is, hallucinogens and drugs producing extreme euphoria were not all that common in the US prior to the hippies in the late 1960s.

Maybe you can produce evidence of someone dying from an Earl Grey tea overdose.

JA, the problem is not alcohol per se. The problem is in drinking alcohol to excess.

Some people shouldn't drink any alcohol for any reason. Some people should never drink alcohol at certain times or situations. Nobody should drink alcohol above the legal limit and then drive a car or operate heavy equipment. Airline pilots routinely get tested for any alcohol in their blood, and get suspended or fired if they break the rules. Nobody should give alcohol to children or allow them to get it surreptitiously.

I've known any number of people who do not drink: Mormons, Muslims, people on medication with alcohol as a contraindication, people who become ill from even small amounts of alcohol, designated drivers, people who dislike the taste, people who had horrible experiences around binge drinkers or alcoholics, recovering alcoholics in AA, men who recognized that they could not drink responsibly and became teetotalers. I respect all those reasons. It isn't as though anyone forces non-drinkers to drink by pouring it down their throats.

I worked on university campuses for many years, and saw how weekend binge drinking could ruin students' lives. I've had two close family members who were/are problem drinkers, one of them with horrible binges I wouldn't wish on anybody. I read the news about car accidents (and where I live, boating accidents) with the driver DUI.

It's not like you haven't found enough memes to express your opinion. We get it. But the great majority of people who consume alcohol do so in small, safe amounts. That is what you need to recognize.

In contrast, there is no safe level of methamphetamine. Heroin and cocaine tolerances vary so widely that we cannot assume safe levels of those drugs. Even prescription pain killers are coming under increasing criticism because patients are becoming addicted even while under a doctor's care. Nicotine is highly addictive.

Given that marijuana isn't going away any time soon, I believe and hope that more research will be done on it for both medicinal and recreational use.

Unfortunately life is never so simple. NPR's Morning Edition just had a segment this morning about a medical study that showed that babies of pot-smoking parents had residual marijuana in their bloodstreams. Because nobody knows the longer-term outcomes for these children, their parents play Russian roulette with their babies' lives.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...octors-say-parenting-and-pot-smoking-dont-mix

Studies on teenage stoners have found problems in the mental activities precisely associated with the late-developing frontal lobes of the brain that involve such functions as judgement.

Is this what you want???

Thank you all so much for opening up this thread for discussion; it has become a topic that has infiltrated into my family recently and I still struggle to bring it into terms that I can deal with.

First the magic: this morning in my meditation I was asking for guidance about the matter, and then decided to distract myself by delving back into my astrology. When I came to the forum this was the first post I read.
In my situation we learned only several months ago that my granddaughter, 21 years of age, has become addicted to heroin and soon encountered a near overdose. She did get into treatment, however was soon back home after only 2 months. As her grandmother I did have strong hope that she would be able to recover quite quickly.

As such yesterday, we went for a family visit for a holiday dinner and I was very much hoping that I could get through to her and get her to open up a bit. Suffice it to say she is a very independent and self-absorbed Aries and it is difficult to even get her to talk most times. I was awake for most of the night before, planning out what I hoped to say.

Yet when we arrived she was just heading out the door and barely even said hello. I asked her if we could have a conversation for a bit first, but she was like the frightened horse ready to bolt.

Finally she did give in and stayed for a bit. I tried to speak with her alone; still her stance was very rigid and closed down. I thought she was capable of listening to some reason but that was not to be. Even I was taken aback by the amount of rage and anger she spouted forth and her unwillingness to even listen to my words. There have been issues for her with her mother over the years [Scorpio with Aries Moon] but even I was surprised by the amount of vehemence she carries within. I do understand the degree of emotional pain she is in and has been for years, but I did not fully appreciate the degree to which it eats her up inside. She has built up a very strong brick wall around herself over the years and I know she desperately needs to get counselling in order to break through it all, but does not know how to avail herself of it. She is currently highly rebellious, resistant and is not willing to open up to the love being offered up to her.

I do get that and I guess I am just realizing that I do not have the skills to help her overcome this. As always there are complications in the scenario, as her mother is going to be undergoing surgery in the new year, and I was trying to address that issue and getting her to understand how she would be needed to help out. I guess it is expecting too much to expect one person in recovery to be there for someone else needing recovery, and that saddens me deeply. Suffice it to say that the conversation did not last long, as she announced that she was moving out of the parents home [once again] on January 1st, so it was 'not her problem'. The lack of care shown felt like a blow to the the stomach. Without further ado, she stormed out of the house.
As such I felt utterly helpless and disappointed about the outcome and felt that even I had failed to get through. Today I am still struggling to process the emotional drama of the situation.

I am so thankful that there are people like you out there willing to speak up about the issues at hand, for indeed it is becoming an epidemic throughout the world. I live in the pacific northwest, and yesterday there were 9 deaths in our city because of the fentanyl tainted drugs being pushed aggressively on the streets. There is a huge outreach effort trying to treat the waves of overdoses out there, which after weeks of watching news about it, I have conflicting feelings about. It seems to me at this to be a pointless effort and I can't help remembering the words of Jesus; let the dead bury the dead. I see all these corpses lying about being resuscitated, knowing full well that it will all just happen over again the next day.

My growing thought is that in some cases such people are not expecting to recover to live in an ongoing hell, and that perhaps there are many who are rather hoping to just end it all. Perhaps in the end it is really just about mass suicides and most are not really thankful to be brought back again; to me it is all too reminiscent of the black plague and other devastating diseases that continue to wipe out populations en-mass. To many this may seem dis-compassionate on my part, but nothing is farther from the truth to me; it comes from my spiritual faith in the belief that life on earth truly is about creating our own personal hell, or heaven. Many of these people are already dead and are really wanting to gain their own release through whatever means possible.
Again I thank you all for opening this door up for discussion and will definitely be following the thread more closely.
I wish you all a very happy holiday season and hope you can find some small piece of peace and joy during such stressful times. And blessed be those who are too late to retrieve. Blessed be those of us, as well, who must stand by the sidelines and do nothing more than just observe the destruction.

Alcohol is the "Gateway" drug for most kids who start experimenting with others.

JA, who is arguing in favour of drunk driving or alcoholism???

waybread said:

Oh, great, David. Are we back to "two wrongs make a right" territory?

The fact is, hallucinogens and drugs producing extreme euphoria were not all that common in the US prior to the hippies in the late 1960s.

Maybe you can produce evidence of someone dying from an Earl Grey tea overdose.

Click to expand...

Too much caffeine IS dangerous, and these current "energy drinks" are laced with it. The deaths caused by excessive consumption of caffeinated beverages, including coffee and tea, are mostly from heart ailments and from attempting to function in potentially dangerous activities while using caffeine to make up for a lack of sleep. Many parents disapprove of their child's use of coffee, or at least they used to.
It's not about "two wrongs make a right", it's about the right way and the wrong way to deal with ALL drugs. Illegality is an artificial, subjective, counterproductive distinction that actually makes it appear that only the illegal ones are dangerous when wrongly used.

david starling said:

Too much caffeine IS dangerous, and these current "energy drinks" are laced with it.
The deaths caused by excessive consumption of caffeinated beverages, including coffee and tea,
are mostly from heart ailments and from attempting to function in potentially dangerous activities
while using caffeine to make up for a lack of sleep.
Many parents disapprove of their child's use of coffee,
or at least they used to.

Click to expand...

Exactly why there's a warning label on the energy drinks can

While you're at it, here is another must-read.

Please, please guys-- get real.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/16/health/huntington-heroin/


Caffeine is not in the same league as heroin or fentanyl, and you both know it.