Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
What on a chart indicates mental issues for sure?
Mental issues
- Thread starter Rebel Uranian
- Start date
Yes, there are no "for sure" specific indicators of mental problems: but quite a few combinations and placements can indicate a strong susceptibility to such problems: EVERY planet, in its disruptive phase or circumstances or combinations, can point in such directions: eg, a "too strong" Saturn OR a "too weak" (afflicted) Sun can both point toward depressive tendencies. Also, house placements can be important: obviously the first and sixth houses, but also very importantly the 3rd house (researches of Charles Carter; also teachings in Vedic astrology) and of course, as Caprising mentioned above, the 12th can be very important. Since the 5th has to do with the "pleasure principle", and the 8th with sexual functions, these additional houses often play an important role in psychological imbalances. Affections of "brain chemisty" can be indicated by the Moon, nervous system dysfuntions by Mercury (and also Uranus), (so called) subconscious conflicts by Saturn, Neptune, Pluto; anger and frustration and results of blockages/obstacles to the expression of the Will, connect with Mars (and to a certain extent with the Sun as well) A smashed down ego (and the effects of this) connect with the Sun, and "ego-mania" also with the Sun (and Mars; often also Jupiter).
...there is very much more to this subject-it is, indeed a deep one, and an ancient one as well-Ptolemy devoted a couple chapters of the "Tetrabiblos" specifically to this subject (back in the early 2nd century AD)...
...there is very much more to this subject-it is, indeed a deep one, and an ancient one as well-Ptolemy devoted a couple chapters of the "Tetrabiblos" specifically to this subject (back in the early 2nd century AD)...
as others here have said, it is a broad question rebel u.. to me mercury and moon are the most closely connected symbols/planets to the mind - the conscious and the subconscious...imbalances, or conflict with these 2, to any outers, or saturn might indicate some challenging dynamic, but this is very broad.. of course connected to the 6/12 axis - that is by house or sign might heighten the possibility.. 1st house is a house to do with health too...the 3rd has a symbolic association with the mental processes..
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
It's in the 1st. How does someone with Mercury in the 12th talk so much?
As every psychology or health student ever has said, "I qualify for ALL of those!" I don't know if that's actually true
Bir Singh Khari
Well-known member
ASC indicates body ,MOON indicates mind and MER indicates intelect . If they are under heavy affliction then inauspicious transit and period ( DASHA ) can creat a mental issue .
Claire19
Well-known member
We need to look at the chart of a mentally challenged person rather than looking just for the aspects at random and in general. However:
Uranus with Mercury madness, eccentricity and often genius
Neptune with Mercury confusion, addiction causes, delusional
Moon with Mercury hereditary, family and emotional issues as cause.
Afflicted 3rd of the mind and perceptions in general.
1st house and also the 6th for physical reasons, diet etc causing the mental problems.
Claire19
Well-known member
Yes transits and progressions trigger what is innate in the birth chart.
divine g
Banned
I'd agree with that. Mercury sq or opposite Uranus can bring some erratic behavior and thoughts. Mercury in bad aspect to Neptune would show mental issues due to abuse of drugs or alcohol, esp if either is retrograde.
In my experience, Mercury in tough aspect to Chiron may show some incurable mental issues...
I take it emotional issues would also be perceived as mental issues, so bad aspects with the Moon in the natal or progressed chart can present problems. Saturn contacting Moon can bring depression, Uranus badly aspecting it would cause Schizophrenia, Epilepsy, Parkinsons, Turrets syndrome etc. Pluto badly aspecting the Moon is a big, big red flag as well! This is the person who can become extremely dangerous, homicidal, suicidal, paranoid, with rage that can be pretty volcanic. Pluto transiting the Moon can be very difficult to control if the Moon is already badly aspected...
I would say the sure shot, if you were to study charts of ppl who were certifiably insane, probably had difficult aspects natally, or transits with the outer planets to the personal planets, i.e. Uranus, Neptune, Pluto to Mercury, or Moon..Going to look up Charles Manson's chart now..
Edit: Per astrotheme.com this is Manson's natal chart, and sure enough, Pluto is opposite his Moon, and as a Scorpio he is ruled by Pluto. Moon in Aquarius ruled by Uranus..And Uranus(r) in 12th Aries conjuncting his Asc sure makes for an "interesting" person...Also Mercury opposite Uranus..that can either be a genius, or insane..Obviously in his case the latter.. My question is, who wouldn't have at least one or 2 mental issues in this crazy world? It's pretty much relative
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divine g
Banned
Yeah, can't forget Mars which rules anger could have a role to play in emotional issues, as the classic term for that was going "mad". Mars and his anger can be a real gateway to bad places..
Any personal planet conjunct Pluto or opposite Pluto is going to have a hell of a battle on their hands. And a badly aspected Mars to an outer planet, as we see with Manson's Mars conjunct Neptune, can present big, long-term, very hard to control problems. It is very hard to come back from Neptune once you get caught in its undercurrents..
Mark
Well-known member
As an astrologer, I can't say that planets rule emotions or mental difficulties. That seems to be a cognitive shortcut caused by needing to work with material without having all the answers (i.e. newbie mistake). These are just the questions to which we seek answers, so we are projecting ourselves onto the heavens. We've all done it, but it's still not right. The planets represent facets of personality, facets of existence, and extant forces, but not "anger" and "illusions." Their true values and associations can only be known by those who are extensively familiar with them. If you've only experienced one side of a "planet," then you can't truly understand it. When one allows these forces to be what they are and examines them for such, instead of telling them what they should be, then one can develop an understanding. I think anyone who can honestly say that they have this understanding, even to the smallest degree, must also say that interpretations such as an angry, violent Mars or a confused, junkie Neptune are just plain wrong. All of the planets are more noble by nature than we have here recognised. It's not the heavens that are broken.
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
I say I totally agree. Neptune is the most picked on planet besides Saturn, and Saturn isn't even in that bad of a state currently. My favorite planets are still the "malefic" ones.
By the way, emotions are problems! JK. We need to stop letting out cultural standards determine our perceptions and start breaking out and thinking for ourselves. That's my "sensitivity, rationality, skepticism" process inspiration. There's probably a better version.
divine g
Banned
Every planet, everything in the universe that has more than 2 dimensions has 2 or more sides. No one is saying Mars, or Neptune or any planet is bad. We are talking about aspects between planets which may or may not point to difficulties with mental issues. It's a sincere question, and people are trying to give sincere answers.Originally Posted by Mark
I think anyone who can honestly say that they have this understanding, even to the smallest degree, must also say that interpretations such as an angry, violent Mars or a confused, junkie Neptune are just plain wrong. All of the planets are more noble by nature than we have here recognised.
I say I totally agree. Neptune is the most picked on planet besides Saturn, and Saturn isn't even in that bad of a state currently. My favorite planets are still the "malefic" ones.
No one said the heavens are broken. People are broken, turn on the News. I dont know why someone on an astrology board, keeps repeatedly claiming that the planets have nothing to do with people's behaviors, it's really just outrageous, and a smack in the face to any passionate astrologer. And Im talking to Mark here. Stop arguing just to argue, it's childish, and getting old. Astrology is a Science, and Science is based on observation. All you have to do is check natal charts of real life people and see the patterns, and know without a doubt that the positions of planets affect human beings, many times in predictable ways, whether you philosophically agree with it or not.
If you want to add on to this thread, maybe give a helpful answer to the actual question, before going on some meaningless, better than thou rant. And if u dont believe in the basic premise of astrology, that the planets affect human psychology, then stay out of astrological discussions on astrological forums.
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I regard the various astrological factors as indicators and pointers, rather than as "causal" principles/agents; I believe they show trends and susceptibilities, and when factors become activated and when they fade into the background (astrological timing considerations) The natal horoscope is NOT the PERSON, rather it shows the trends and tendencies and susceptibilities, the assets and liabilities, this PERSON has to work with (during this incarnation)...that's my outlook (opinion) regarding this subject...
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
IMO divine g you have misunderstood Mark on this particular point.
IMO Mark is NOT 'arguing just to argue' - but instead Mark IS being very helpful when he says:
Furthermore, because RebelUranian clearly agrees with Mark and RebelUranian began this thread so obviously, since Mark's answer is one with which RebelUranian is in accord, for you divine g to suggest that Mark 'stays out of astrological discussions on astrological forums' is IMO an inappropriate judgement on your part in this case
divine g
Banned
@Jupiterasc, no, I understood Mark perfectly, because he's made this argument before, especially after I've responded. He says here
Mercury, according to ALL RELEVANT, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED and REAL Astrologers RULES THE MIND. And the Moon RULES THE EMOTIONS, the same way the MOON RULES THE TIDES. Or does the Moon NOT rule the tides anymore, according to the "Gospel of Mark"???? Mark is the type to actually argue that the tides arent' ruled by the moon and that they "actually" have free will! We all do! We can sit in the Sun naked all day and not get a tan or sunburn if we don't want. We can sit in the rain and not get wet, because we are all "little gods" with free will and we control everything. PLEASE!
So again, it's not about Mark's response to this thread per se, but him continually injecting his own anti-astrology philosophies into this astrology forum, due to some obviously narcisstic need to feel different or above somebody, and it is a total waste of time for sincere seekers of truth. I've studied astrology day in and day out since 1997, you're not talking to a "newbie" here. With all due respect, stop trying to re-invent the wheel, and answer the gd question without your self-absorbed hubris, which brings more confusion than clarity to the thread.
I will go on record, as a gifted astrologer, I will put my reputation on the line, and say without a doubt, backed up by real astrologers worldwide, that if you were to intensively study the charts of people with mental issues, you would find patterns involving the planets Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus in difficult aspects to the personal planets. Now, can someone use this energy constructively, and transmute their insanity to genius? Yes! Do harsh aspects mean that the planets completely dictate as law that one has mental issues? No!
RebelUranian asked a question, I answered it, and if they like Mark's bs answer more to make them feel better, fine. Pat yourselves on the back, case closed, nothing to see here, problem solved. Because according to the gospel of "Mark" people with mental issues are not crazy, they're just merely "projecting" themselves onto the heavens... GIVE-ME-A-BREAK!!!
First of all why do you put "planet" in quotation marks, as if planets don't exist? You see, this is what I'm talking about, there is a subtle anti-astrology slant to his views, and it doesn't help anyone looking to astrology for sincere answers! His whole premise here is off, and totally against the THE VERY PRINCIPLE that astrology is based on. Whether or not Rebel Uranian agrees with him or not is irrelevant, because it doesn't mean that he's right. It is the MOST BASIC LANGUAGE of astrology to say planets have RULERSHIP over certain facets of human life. So for Mark to suggest that planets don't rule anything is ABSURD! Then to condescendingly call people "newbies" is absolutely offensive, and a smack in the face to yes, even to the most elementary astrologer.
Mercury, according to ALL RELEVANT, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED and REAL Astrologers RULES THE MIND. And the Moon RULES THE EMOTIONS, the same way the MOON RULES THE TIDES. Or does the Moon NOT rule the tides anymore, according to the "Gospel of Mark"???? Mark is the type to actually argue that the tides arent' ruled by the moon and that they "actually" have free will! We all do! We can sit in the Sun naked all day and not get a tan or sunburn if we don't want. We can sit in the rain and not get wet, because we are all "little gods" with free will and we control everything. PLEASE!
So again, it's not about Mark's response to this thread per se, but him continually injecting his own anti-astrology philosophies into this astrology forum, due to some obviously narcisstic need to feel different or above somebody, and it is a total waste of time for sincere seekers of truth. I've studied astrology day in and day out since 1997, you're not talking to a "newbie" here. With all due respect, stop trying to re-invent the wheel, and answer the gd question without your self-absorbed hubris, which brings more confusion than clarity to the thread.
I will go on record, as a gifted astrologer, I will put my reputation on the line, and say without a doubt, backed up by real astrologers worldwide, that if you were to intensively study the charts of people with mental issues, you would find patterns involving the planets Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus in difficult aspects to the personal planets. Now, can someone use this energy constructively, and transmute their insanity to genius? Yes! Do harsh aspects mean that the planets completely dictate as law that one has mental issues? No!
RebelUranian asked a question, I answered it, and if they like Mark's bs answer more to make them feel better, fine. Pat yourselves on the back, case closed, nothing to see here, problem solved. Because according to the gospel of "Mark" people with mental issues are not crazy, they're just merely "projecting" themselves onto the heavens... GIVE-ME-A-BREAK!!!
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divine g
Banned
Nothing in astrology is "for sure" except we know that the Sun will for sure rise tomorrow, and the Moon will for sure reflect his light. We can only guess on how the planets will affect us psychologically and emotionally. However, if we see patterns repeated over and over, we can at least put that forth as an indicator of high probability.
I posted the chart of Charles Manson, who they say is the "Yardstick by which evil is measured", and his chart validated my response. Here is one more example showing validity to what I have to say, John Wayne Gacy, (the madman/serial killer/child molestor who dressed up as a clown with make-up to seduce kids). As I said above, any opposition or square from personal planet to outer planet can indicate serious issues. Not 100% "for sure", but if you see that aspect in someone with mental issues, that's probably it.
JOHN WAYNE GACY'S NATAL CHART: PLUTO OPPOSITE VENUS, NEPTUNE OPPOSITE SUN AND MOON URANUS SQUARE MERCURY. Need I say more, or do you need 100 more charts to be convinced?
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divine g
Banned
I believe Mark was responding to me when I said this above..
This also stemmed from an earlier quote from someone else
I'm sure even a "newbie" would be aware that Uranus has many positives, as stated above, it's also associated with genius. Eccentricity can also be a positive thing if one's quirkiness can bring some excitement to a dull place. But again NO ONE is saying Uranus is Bad! Neptune is Bad! Mars is a Bad Bad angry person, stay away from Mars!
No one said that!
We're talking about negative aspects of planets in line with mental issues, a negative thing. From my very first book on astrology, it was said that Uranus RULES insanity. And it was a very thorough book, which got me hooked on astrology bc it so accurately described my Sun sign. So again, obviously Mark was looking to pick a fight, playing semantics, and bringing confusion where others are trying to bring clarity. If you cannot bring clarity to the "newbies" then leave the "newbies" alone. And as for RebelUranian, I believe he started a thread questioning the existence of God, so I wont even bother responding to him, as he apparently cant tell his behind from his elbow..smh.
This also stemmed from an earlier quote from someone else
No one is saying any planet is all "good" or "bad" here. In that respect, one could be considered a "newbie" if they thought that way. We are simply denoting bad aspects here. And each planet, as I said before has its polarity. Let's remember these are actual PLANETS, shaped like spheres with North and South Poles.
I'm sure even a "newbie" would be aware that Uranus has many positives, as stated above, it's also associated with genius. Eccentricity can also be a positive thing if one's quirkiness can bring some excitement to a dull place. But again NO ONE is saying Uranus is Bad! Neptune is Bad! Mars is a Bad Bad angry person, stay away from Mars!
No one said that!We're talking about negative aspects of planets in line with mental issues, a negative thing. From my very first book on astrology, it was said that Uranus RULES insanity. And it was a very thorough book, which got me hooked on astrology bc it so accurately described my Sun sign. So again, obviously Mark was looking to pick a fight, playing semantics, and bringing confusion where others are trying to bring clarity. If you cannot bring clarity to the "newbies" then leave the "newbies" alone. And as for RebelUranian, I believe he started a thread questioning the existence of God, so I wont even bother responding to him, as he apparently cant tell his behind from his elbow..smh.
tsmall
Premium Member
I am only curious, does this mean you believe that anyone who has ever questioned the existance of God (or perhaps, not believed in God as you define him) can't tell his behind from his elbow? Again, I am just curious...