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  #1  
Unread 08-03-2019, 09:47 PM
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cosmicseeing cosmicseeing is offline
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Question Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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(I posted this under read my chart, but I don't think it was the correct area to post. I can also contribute a little bit of what I think)

This person has dealt with addiction from the time he was a teenager, he is now about to turn 30. Jupiter in grand trine can indicate a tendency to indulgence, what do you think Jupiter conjunct moon in the 9th house mean? Could it point to his delusions he is fiercely convinced of? He does invest a lot of his energy into his delusional beliefs.
In recent years he has turned to "uppers", the drugs that induce anxiety, paranoia. he has become delusion and has tried to convince others of the delusions he subscribes too. To name one, he doesn't believe you need to work to make a living. He believes the government just gives you an unlimited amount of money if you sign up for it correctly. (?)

He is often extremely angry and nasty towards people he is close to, but is also difficult in everyday interactions with people. It's never a smooth interaction. There's always a problem. I can see Sun square Mars in Aries is an indicator of that anger. He can be so aggressive.

The romantic relationships he's been in, they were abusive and somehow, even if he did the damage, blame was placed on the other person for causing it.

Could Mercury square Pluto indicate delusions? What does Pluto in the 2nd house indicate about values? How about the stellium in Capricorn in 4th house? Could it indicate a very difficult inner life?

I am not very familiar with Chiron, what does Chiron opposing the stellium mean?

What are some positive areas of this chart? I feel like he has suffered a lot in his life.. but I also feel like he is capable to take control of how he interacts with others and take accountability for his actions in relationships (familial and romantic) Addiction is also hard for me to understand.. his addiction, I would say, is pretty severe.

Any thoughts/feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

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Unread 08-04-2019, 03:25 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

This chart probably falls in the category "Posted without native's consent". I think this forum should review and revise policy in this area. The chart can only be traced to native with great effort.

Note 7 planets occupy Earth, with the 5-planet stellium in Capricorn, Saturn lord of all Earth planets as well as retrograde lord of the horoscope, Mercury.

Saturn is over-emphasized, and anything carried to extreme is apt to bring negative results.

Earth depends on the senses; it indicates "sensuality". Both Lights are in Earth, in trine. However, Moon resides in the troubled and turbulent last degree (30th degree) of Taurus. She is in the sign of her Exaltation, but is about to leave it for a sign where she has no dignity.

Mercury, lord of the horoscope, beholds only the mutually separating square to Pluto. Deep mental issues, compulsion, fanaticism....

Lots of other cool stuff. But you sound as if, somewhere deep inside, you have an itch to heal this lost soul. Don't waste your time. Healing will occur, if at all, only when the Time is right.
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  #3  
Unread 08-04-2019, 06:47 AM
Zora Zora is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
This chart probably falls in the category "Posted without native's consent". I think this forum should review and revise policy in this area.
thank you for your clear words, greybeard. I agree with you.

For an unknown reason it gets kinda common on forums to (misab)use astrology for sitting in judgement on another person's chart and life - without even giving any information about the relationship one is in with and why one feels entitled to know about.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 06:59 AM
Zora Zora is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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Originally Posted by cosmicseeing View Post
Addiction is also hard for me to understand.. his addiction, I would say, is pretty severe.Any thoughts/feedback is appreciated.
My thought would be - post your own chart. Obviously you have problems here with this person- you are the questioner. And need special individual astrological help and advice corresponding to your own chart energies.

Remember that you only can attract and deal with what is placed in your own chart.
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  #5  
Unread 08-04-2019, 08:20 PM
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

No, I don't need "special individual astrological help and advice" with my own chart. I'm familiar with my own chart.

I have had problems with this person in the past, I was simply asking for feedback. I don't speak with him anymore but he has made an impact in my life. I'm not asking for feedback to help him, but for my own understanding of this person and his astrological energies.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 09:28 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

Try simplifying your task. Remove Chiron from the map. You can put it back in the mix at any time you choose, so begin with simplification.

The Plutonian energy is highlighted in several ways, is brought to prominence. Pluto is leading, or cutting, planet of a bowl pattern. This position immediately puts Pluto in predominant High Focus. His energies permeate and control the chart. Look to the "bowl pattern" thread for its significance in personality. So this personality conforms to the bowl pattern with Plutonian energies dominant. Pluto is also dignified as singleton east, and his presence in Scorpio is notable. He passed through Scorpio between 1983 and 1995, only a 12-year span where the average time-in-sign is 20 years. At the same time, Pluto was within the orbit of Neptune, where he spends only about 20 years during his 240-year promenade around Sun.

And all this Pluto-Scorpio fuss is only exacerbated by Mars, late in his own sign, adjacent the 8th cusp and closely square Sun.

But the planets are not evenly distributed throughout the bowl. There's a big clump in Capricorn. This bowl personality is way off-balance. All of the qualities and characteristics of the Earth Element are over-emphasized, as is the power of Saturn. Yet no Element is unrepresented in the personality; there is one planet in each of the other 3 elements.

The Capricorn stellium lies wholly within the 4th house: home and family. Three malefics, Venus being mauled, under duress. An extreme environment.

So... This parade through life is being led by Pluto, lord of the Underworld. The 4th house, apart from home and family, symbolizes the racial unconscious, the deep abyss of the unconscious. There be Dragons here, primal forces.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-04-2019 at 09:56 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 08-05-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Try simplifying your task. Remove Chiron from the map. You can put it back in the mix at any time you choose, so begin with simplification.

The Plutonian energy is highlighted in several ways, is brought to prominence. Pluto is leading, or cutting, planet of a bowl pattern. This position immediately puts Pluto in predominant High Focus. His energies permeate and control the chart. Look to the "bowl pattern" thread for its significance in personality. So this personality conforms to the bowl pattern with Plutonian energies dominant. Pluto is also dignified as singleton east, and his presence in Scorpio is notable. He passed through Scorpio between 1983 and 1995, only a 12-year span where the average time-in-sign is 20 years. At the same time, Pluto was within the orbit of Neptune, where he spends only about 20 years during his 240-year promenade around Sun.

And all this Pluto-Scorpio fuss is only exacerbated by Mars, late in his own sign, adjacent the 8th cusp and closely square Sun.

But the planets are not evenly distributed throughout the bowl. There's a big clump in Capricorn. This bowl personality is way off-balance. All of the qualities and characteristics of the Earth Element are over-emphasized, as is the power of Saturn. Yet no Element is unrepresented in the personality; there is one planet in each of the other 3 elements.

The Capricorn stellium lies wholly within the 4th house: home and family. Three malefics, Venus being mauled, under duress. An extreme environment.

So... This parade through life is being led by Pluto, lord of the Underworld. The 4th house, apart from home and family, symbolizes the racial unconscious, the deep abyss of the unconscious. There be Dragons here, primal forces.

Thank you for your feedback greybeard. Pluto has always been difficult for me to understand, and you have highlighted a lot for me to consider. you also shed a lot of light about the bowl pattern and simplifying. Thank you again!
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Unread 08-05-2019, 08:41 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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Originally Posted by cosmicseeing View Post
I have had problems with this person in the past, I was simply asking for feedback. I don't speak with him anymore but he has made an impact in my life. I'm not asking for feedback to help him, but for my own understanding of this person and his astrological energies.
I haven't uploaded the chart, yet I would suggest that it is impossible to 'know' another person when even attempting to understand or judge them through one's own parameters of nature and not that which otherwise motivates theirs.

I would agree with Zora that learning the effect upon you … perhaps through synastry ... helps you understand yourself better and why you experience difficulty with/about chart owner as you do.

Simply as a practical example:-
I could say that there are 3 people of a strong Plutonic influence who 'impacted' (Moon) upon me (or my Pluto; it may be another planet in your case).

The first one totally changed the course my life took; the second one was actually a client whose force made me realise HOW (much) another's nature could affect me; the third saw me grow strong enough (Sun) not to be intimidated and overwhelmed by the forceful manipulation hurled my way, but to meet it head on …. and overcome it, in future from anyone!
The transition was gradual: It didn't occur overnight and my Pluto in Leo is still affected every time a planet conjoins it. Yet it seems as if Sun and Moon get together and decide between them what is the best course to take.

I have Sun trine Moon. Neither are aspected to Pluto.
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  #9  
Unread 08-06-2019, 12:48 AM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

It's hard to know the origin of this addiction etc without knowing about the way he grew up....family, abuse, drugs and alcohol in the home??

If so, this person will never change and take control of his life without admitting to the addictions, being in at least one program and psycho therapy. In other words, devoting a lot of his future to recovery.

Addicts cannot have "normal" relationships without first recovering from the past.

Lin
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  #10  
Unread 08-06-2019, 05:13 AM
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
It's hard to know the origin of this addiction etc without knowing about the way he grew up....family, abuse, drugs and alcohol in the home??

If so, this person will never change and take control of his life without admitting to the addictions, being in at least one program and psycho therapy. In other words, devoting a lot of his future to recovery.

Addicts cannot have "normal" relationships without first recovering from the past.

Lin
He is the youngest of multiple children, his mother and father divorced when he was a teenager, his father passed away shortly after. I am in a close relationship with his mother, he is dependent upon her. She has a very giving heart and only wants to help him, but at times it is enabling. The state of addiction he's in isn't the lowest he's ever been, but I know in my time of knowing him, the drugs have affected him greatly.

You are correct, they first need to recover from the past in order to form healthy relationships. and in order to recover he has to want it, and he must dedicate his life to it.

The drug use/gambling go hand in hand. I have known him for years. The cycle doesn't seem to end. I know I can't help him anymore, I've tried.
He can be really nasty toward me, his family, it's sad. I don't take it personally anymore, it used to hurt my feelings because I would try so hard to help him. It has taken me a few years to heal and detach from his toxicity.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 06:20 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

If you have never lived addiction you cannot possibly understand it.

You cannot be told the taste of a banana. The only way to know what a banana tastes like is to eat a banana. And the experience of a banana involves much more than just taste.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 09:34 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

Yes.....it's true. But everyone is addicted to something. Every addiction is not a life or death situation but can be destructive to a relationship.The other person feels left out, abandoned, irrelevant; and then the blaming begins....and the defensive dynamics.

Somehow the person who is NOT addicted cannot or will not leave the toxic person.

Sometimes it's literally impossible to leave; most of the time it's not. The person somehow is addicted to the delusion that the "addict" will somehow magically change.

That is the deadly and toxic outcome of this type of situation. It is in a way contagious. But the 'other person' doesn't become an addict...he/she becomes a victim and an enabler. And then that is THAT person's identity from then on. The victim. If there is a marriage and children, the children will be either addicts or victims.

If there is help or therapy or programs for the children or the original victim, maybe the dynamic gets diluted. Bt in order for that to happen EVERYONE (except for the addict, as they rarely will ever change) has to admit that they are powerless over the addict, the addiction and only have power over their own lives and their own future.

Lainie

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Unread 08-07-2019, 12:48 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

I have an addict friend...meth. She says she is a junkie, not an addict. Junkies are addicts on steroids.

Yesterday she called me to announce that she has been clean for a year, a month and a day...and invited me to take her out to dinner.

She's made it! If she falls by the wayside now it's because she wants to.

Ain't life great?

Most addicts never shake free.
She was introduced to "the life" by her father at age 6. She's now in her mid-50s...just that time in life when, for some us, it all starts to come together.

I was amazed as I watched government agencies (courts, probation officers,...) actually help addicts rather than punishing or preaching to them. ˇViva!
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Unread 08-22-2019, 09:24 AM
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Re: Addiction Drugs/Gambling, Delusional, Paranoia

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Originally Posted by cosmicseeing View Post
He is the youngest of multiple children, his mother and father divorced when he was a teenager, his father passed away shortly after. I am in a close relationship with his mother, he is dependent upon her. She has a very giving heart and only wants to help him, but at times it is enabling. The state of addiction he's in isn't the lowest he's ever been, but I know in my time of knowing him, the drugs have affected him greatly.

Oh wow, that's so unusual, never seen anything like that, hey Lin, now it must be clear to you why he's an addict!

Jokes aside I've read in a book from Liz Greene, Howard Sasportas and found it inspiring, that the astrological chart shows how the parents and environment were perceived by the child not how they absolutely factually were, meaning that one mother could be perceived differently by different babys which is the magic of different souls meaning the chart is supposed to tell you the the thing about psyche that you need to know which is the point why we're on this forum.



Anyways, if I can add my little layman thing, addicts are notorious in missing the feeling of purpose and meaning and spirituality in life. The 9th and Jupiter which stand for higher truths are in Taurus, which is material and not inherently gifted by spirituality (same as moon by the way, so possibly material abundance and not care of spirit and sliding into gemini which is not support at all which might be the reason why there are wounds in the area of mother's care if I understand correctly). And then you get the Venus in the cold capricorn and marked by saturn and father also there, everything must be so cold and devoid of mystery in the beginning. Capricorn stands for wisdom in the end, but through hardship and loneliness and trials. Some people are made to have hard life. But the north node is in Pisces so he's supposed to find the spirit and dreamland but also Pisces is the leading sign of druggies so he was probably made to fall through that. Very much weight on the ground while growing up, so he's balancing with falling for delusional pisces dreamland. The north node is well aspected though so he could make it? Is that interpretation to wild?
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