Greetings in return, Marius.
Greetings
Fitness of the planet is reffering to potentiality. As I already explain on this forum, the potentiality it's a matter of capability, ability, strength, power and indicate that something might have the chance to happen or not to happen or shows how something could be done well.
I have often found that if we want to refer members to posts we have made previously it is helpful to include a link. Goodness knows I have made several posts that would pertain to this conversation but I do not expect that anyone would care to search them out. It has been my experience that the only member here at AW with that kind of respect (in that he may post a reference and get other members to search for it) is dr. farr.
In the previous message I was talking about attitude, not fitness. In simple terms, the attitude is reffering to the potential of the planet to do good or bad for the native. The attitude indicates how the planet will act, regarding the needs of the native.
Yes, and you did point out, despite your arguments with Schmidt's definition of sect, that you would consider this a diurnal chart becaus Helios/Sun is within 12* of the horizon. I can understand why it could be easy to reach this conclusion, since in the dawn it does become light (visibly) before the Sun actually rises. That said, the Sun has not yet risen.
I am hopeful that dr. farr can again help us out with is vast knowlege of all things astrology in that there is a delineative differenece when we are speaking of the Sun near the horizon?
For myself and the majority of traditional astrologers, the Sun has not risen until it has crested the horizon, just as the Moon has not completely set until she dips below it. The visual would be on a flat plane. Can you see the body of the Sun or Moon, or can you not?
I believe, especially with what little the OP has given us to go on, that this is indeed a night chart. She said
The first time this Saturn transit hit - from my 3rd natal house - I was in my mid teens. I had been a model, straight-A student, despite a fairly grim home life. I began having panic attacks regularly and sleep terrors, and I was terrified that I was going mad. I was pretty sure that there was some mental illness affecting my father as well as alcoholism (he's probably bi-polar...and Caput Algol is a binary star - conjunct the antiscion of Saturn in my natal chart). I was scared that if I told anyone about the hallucinations, sleep paralysis, and (what I now know to be) panic attacks that I was experiencing, I would be told that I was mentally ill, just like my father. I stopped going to school and almost got expelled, although I pulled myself back together in time to sit my final exams.
What she is describing is an out of sect Saturn, ruling her 3rd/4th signs as a completely incompetent house ruler. The ASC being squared from the 3rd in her natal chart means that transiting Saturn had already opposed her natal Saturn and was squaring the ASC from his daytime/preferred house. Which speaks to the point I have been trying to make. Saturn in this chart is debilitated, but the transits of Saturn don't have to be so. And I do believe that is the question that was posed. "How is it possible that Saturn, when he is so heavily debilitated in my natal chart, behaves well when in transit?"
The cadent places are not weak in the sense of strengthens, they are weak in pursuing the priorities in someone’s life like pivotal places do. The dynamic of the cadent and succedent places will always be reported to the pivots. The places must always be checked in triads: 12-1-2; 3-4-5; 6-7-8; 9-10-11.
While this is against generally accepted doctrine, in that the potential is found in the succedent place, realized in the angular place, and destroyed in the cadent place, I actually agree with your conceptualization of the triad. Cadent planets are perpetualy falling. Why this was later misconstrued is a mystery to me, but this is one of those instances where I have previously posted on this fourm about an idea. I'm certain you have not read it. Planets that are falling away from the angles do not create events, they react to them. When something falls, it can fall into place, or fall out of it.
For example, the priorities in someone’s life could be: health, shelter, love, achievements. The 9th place is related with knowledge. The native achievements will be guide by knowledge. There is nothing week here.
This is perhaps another misunderstanding on my part, but at no point have I personally stated that a debilitated Saturn is "weak." Rather, it is debilitated.
I’m not following the medieval doctrine but the babylonian one. Every planet has a life cycle. The maximum strength and vigour of a havey planet will be in fact before it reaches its peak, after the first station, in the phase so called, achronychial rise.
I apologize, Marius, but I do not see how you have been able to relate this back to what the OP has given us of her natal Saturn and the effects it has had on the natal houses it rules. I do wonder if most replying to this thread read only the title and not the post?
As an explanation for those watching this thread who may not understand, a heavy/superior planet (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars) stations retrograde (1st station) at the superior trine to the Sun. it is retrograde until it reaches its second station, at the inferior trine to the Sun. (This is a Mundane and not Zodiacal trine.) At the oppostion to the Sun, every superior planet will be retrograde, and will have entered into curtailed passage; when it is seen to neither rise nor set. Once it passes the opposition, it is said to make an achronical rise.
about the life o human being. The human is born, and its passing to 4 ages: childhood (AS), adulthood (MC), manhood (DS), old age (IC). Between adulthood (MC) and manhood (DS) you will find yourself most powerful ( 9th place).
The same logic, babilonian applied to the path of the havey planets. Before the planet reaches its manhood, its power will be the greatest.
Retrogradation of a havey planet, in the first helical cycle, force the planet to look forward, to the future. After is shifting its position relative to Helios, the planet is force to look backward, to the past. The farther is the planet form its place of departure the later in life the planet will give its gifts. Its logical that retrograde planets, to grant their gifts later in life. There are many things to say on this chapter. I found the delineations of medieval era to be in general, slightly in error.
I would question then which Persian astrologers you have been reading, because this part of you post is quite eloquent and not entirely out of line with those same Persian astrologers. If, however, you are referring to the later Medieval tradition ala Bonatti and later Lilly, you may have a point.
I apologize if my explanations are not easy to follow. As I said, that Kronos will give mixed results, and could be considered anyhow, but not weak.
I am a bit more comfortable with your Greek references than most would be, which is why I try to clarify them. This is a learning forum for mostly beginners. I've yet to discover where anyone on this thread has said that Saturn was weak?