Things that blow your mind

Kintpuash said:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136191

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petosiris said:

Investigate the seven-zone chronocratorship.

At every nativity, it will be necessary to examine the third, the seventh

and the fortieth day of the Moon

using the second, the fourth

and the seventh image from the Moon.


If three of the images are operative and beheld by benefics, it signifies distinguished nativities. If two of the images are inoperative and beheld by malefics, while the benefics are turned away, it makes for undistinguished nativities.

If the Moon is diametrical from Saturn and is void of course on the third day, it signifies those who are not nourished or undistinguished. If the Moon is the ruler of Fortune and is diametrical from Mars with the benefics turned away, while the bounds of Saturn or Mars are setting and anti-culminating, it signifies an accidental or violent death. For the third day signifies the time around birth and youth, the seventh signifies the time around adulthood, and the fortieth day signifies the time around old age and death. Examine the Times of the Twelve Images relative to the Length of Life.

The effects of the stars are vigorous when they are angular from the Lights, Fortune or Daimon. They are especially powerful, for good or bad, when they are present with Fortune at an angle. Nativities become distinguished whenever bright stars and constellations of good nature are rising in the east, or whenever bright good stars are rising alongside with the Seven. Let us now proceed with judgement of nativities.

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the following dialogue mentions third, seventh and fortieth day of the moon

BobZemco said:

I think I just figured this out.

Remember when I said sometimes you have to switch hats or eye-glasses when using a particular technique? This is one of those times.

This technique has been badly translated, and I can see where people get confused. It is nothing more than a generic, guesstimate, rough-guide technique for longevity.....since there's no point in wasting time casting dozens of charts for someone who isn't going to live.

You want to look at the Moon's position at three select points:

1] the 3rd Day (actually Day 4 On Earth)
2] the 7th Day (Day 8 On Earth)
3] the 40th Day (Day 41 On Earth).

This has nothing to do with being Feral, or VOC or anything else. It is a strict focus on what the Moon is doing, to get a very general non-specific idea of what the Native's life will be like, as each day represents an equal number of years in the Native's life.

Moon on the Descendant is bad, except here, Moon is in an applying trine to a very strong and fortunate Saturn who receives Moon by Domicile.

On Day 4 (3rd Day) Moon is in Pisces, that's actually the 8th Sign and even though the 8th House is evil, what we're interested in here is that it is a Succeedent House, and then by Sign Moon trines Ascendant Ruler Sun. Yes, both Malefics are in square by Sign, but then so are both Benefics and then Mercury in the 11th in Gemini not Combust and moving from a Malefic to a Benefic is good, so we judge the Native's first 3 years as okay.

On Day 8 (7th Day) Moon in Taurus (Exalted), in Sign Aversion to everyone but Sun (sextile) and a Sign square to Ascendant, alles klar for the next 7 years of the Native's life.

On Day 41 (40th Day) Moon is in Leo, no problems there.

Again, this is a very generic technique. What we are actually looking for is the Moon landing Cadent, meaning being in the 3rd, 9th, 6th or 12th, and either being with a Malefic, or being attacked by Malefics (especially from the opposition) with no relief from Benefics. Moon in 4th or 7th and in opposition/square Malefics (even more so if Moon is in Sign of Detriment or Fall for the Malefics). For example, suppose Saturn was alone in the 12th and Moon landed there and the Benefics were in aversion to the 12th, and then if not Sun in aversion, then Sun in square or opposition to Moon, then we have a problem. That whatever period of life that represents for the Native will be very negative and bad, and being in the 12th, that will most likely manifest itself through illnesses.

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BobZemco said:

Aha, see, that's what was I was talking about. The texts don't make it clear, and I didn't help much, but it's actually Transiting Moon.

Remember that Age Rulers shift, so Moon rules the first 4 years, then passes the baton to Mercury, then Venus, Sun and so on through the end of life.

The theory behind that revolves (no pun intended) on the Moon being the Age Ruler for infants/toddlers. The specific days selected for viewing are based largely on biology and medicine.

Then, as now, if the infant isn't feeding by the 3rd Day, there's a medical issue. By the 7th Day, the infant should be in a regular cycle of feeding and sleeping and feeding and sleeping....ad infinitum...and if not, then a medical issue. Somewhere around Day 40, the infant's eyes should have adjusted from everything-is-one-gigantic-blurry-mess to there's-lots-and-lots of-blurry-fuzzy-things-and-some-are-shiny...meaning the infant should be grabbing/reaching for things, and reacting to stimuli such as light, movement and sound. If not, then there's a potential problem.

Okay, so we're looking at the exact Longitude of Transiting Moon on the 3rd Day (Day 4 of Infant's Life), the 7th Day (Day 8) and the 40th Day (Day 41) against the Natal Chart.

It isn't so much what we want to see, rather it's what we don't want to see on those 3 select days. We don't want to see Moon joined with Mars and/or Saturn in Cancer in a Cadent Sign. We don't want to see Moon Combust in a Cadent Sign --- although Cazimi Moon would be good. We don't want to see Moon in a Cadent Sign with Mars/Saturn, or in square/opposition to Mars/Saturn, and if that is the case, then we would want to see Jupiter, Venus or Sun in trine with Moon by Sign, or Jupiter/Venus square by Sign. We don't want to see Moon in a Cadent Sign and besieged by Malefics.

Again, this is a very generic technique to estimate the health of the Native.

I should point out that people failing to understand these concepts simply assumed that 1 Day = 1 Year of the Native's life, and then applied that to a new technique called Secondary Progressions. Anyone wondering why Secondary Progressions don't work, now you know why.

I'll try to kill 50 birds with one small pebble here.

If anyone intends to buy classical music, listen to a sample of it first, before buying. Musical works are subject to interpretation, and not every conductor of every symphony is sane. Nowhere is that more true than with Carl Orff's Cantiones Profanes --- the Profane Songs -- aka Carmina Burana.

Granted, music is highly subjective, but a recording that everyone may enjoy is the Philadelphia Symphony with the Rutger's University Choir...and I mention that since that is the recording most commonly used in film scores...and so probably the version you're all most familiar with...and you'd be gravely disappointed to spend money and not hear what you thought you heard.

The opening lines in the score are these...

O Fortuna
velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis
aut decrescis;
vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat
et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,
egestatem,
potestatem
dissolvit ut glaciem.

That's Latin, and Holden would translate it like this...

O Fortune,
like moon
you change states,
ever waxing
and waning;
hateful life
first oppresses
and then soothes
as fancy takes it;
poverty
and power
it melts them like ice.

Dykes would translate it as such...

Fortune!
Like the Moon
[constantly] changing phases,
always increasing [in light]
or decreasing [in light];
Detesting life!
First oppressing [life]
then soothing...
and [all] on a whim;
Melting poverty
and power
as though
they were [made of] ice.

Verbatim translations may be technically and grammatically correct, and Academicians might fawn and drool over them, but they are not linguistically correct: Ma-duc acasa...Holden = Me take at home; Dykes = I'm going home.

When purchasing texts, people might want to bear that in mind.

Anyway, regarding the significations of the Planets, the Moon's primary signification first and foremost is Change.....or Instability.

How do you know which is which?

Apply the Simple Rule: "Planet, Sign, House, always."

The Planet is Moon; Moon will either be domiciled (in Cancer or Exalted in Taurus), exiled (in Capricorn or in Fall in Scorpio) or Peregrine; and Moon will be Angular, Succeedent or Cadent.

Cadent Signs/Houses are falling away from the Angles: 12th is being pushed over the hill by the Ascendant, not the MC. The MC has pushed the 9th Sign/House over. The 7th has pushed away the 6th, and the 4th Sign/House has forced the 3rd Sign/House over the cliff.

So Cadent Houses signify things that have ended or changed, and Moon in a Cadent House intensifies that, since Moon is about Change, or Instability.

That does not mean other Planets cannot suggest Change, they can, but unlike the other Planets, Moon indicates very rapid change....like the kind of change you'd see in an infant, right?

So, then, what would a Cadent distressed Moon on one of those 3 days signify? It signifies instability for the worse, while a Cadent Moon in good condition indicates positive change for the better.

Likewise, Succeedent Moons indicate a continuation of things, while an Angular Moon suggests starting something new, a new beginning or or something like that.

Why does Moon Joy in the 3rd House? Because it is Below Earth and Cadent and represents Change/Instability. Moon in 3rd increases the power of the Moon to act, but doesn't alter it's condition in the House, and since the 3rd Sign/House is Cadent to the 4th Sign/House and the 4th Sign/House is opposite the 10th House, well, there you go.

Since the Ascendant tells us about the Native, what would you say about Cancer-rising Moon in 3rd? That would be a Virgo Moon. Mercury rules Virgo. Are Mercury and Moon Planetary Friends? No, they are Planetary Enemies.

While I'm on the subject of Ascendants and Joys, Ascendant Ruler in the 6th Sign/House is what? A slave for the most part....literally...except when the Ascendant Ruler is also domiciled in the 6th Sign/House, or when Aries rises and Mars is rejoicing in the 6th Sign/House.

Taurus-rising with a 6th House Libra Venus. What is that?

6th House is what? Work? No, people, wrong answer. The 6th House is Service.

Venus signifies what? Love? No, people, sorry, wrong answer. Venus signifies the love of people....the love of Humanity.

So...then....Taurus-rising 6th House Libra Venus is service-oriented to Humanity.....I'm guessing people have a real difficult time figuring out the 10th House Aquarius thing.....and the meaning of "trine"....and whirled peas.

Mars signifies "things Martial."

Scorpio-rising 6th House Aries Mars is going to be protecting/defending Taurus-rising 6th House Libra Venus, so that Venus can perform her vital humanitarian mission, whatever that might be.

And why would Mars do that? I don't know....."trine" anyone? How about Triplicity? If Aries is the 6th Sign, then what Sign is the 10th? Leo.

And who rules Leo?

Sun.

And amongst it's significations is power, authority and government.

What then can we say about Cancer-rising 6th House Sagittarius Jupiter?

Jupiter doesn't rule Cancer. Okay, very good, but Cancer is one of the domiciles of Jupiter, since Jupiter is Exalted in Cancer.

Libra-rising, 6th Sign/House Pisces Venus is going to be different, since Cancer is the 10th Sign (that's the trine thing again).

Just thought I'd mention that since people struggle delineating Vocation. Stupid nonsense on the internet doesn't help; people make it harder than it must be ignoring the meanings of Planets; the texts really aren't all that great; and then let's face it, most of the example charts floating around are for politicians, musicians, entertainers, athletes and such, and not for truck drivers, ditch diggers, clerks, warehouse workers, firemen, managers, fast-food workers, or the wipers of other people's bottoms.

I hope that clarifies things a wee bit.

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BobZemco said:

Holy cow, no wonder you're confused.

15K;14P. The Third, Seventh, and Fortieth Days of the Moon.

The third, seventh, and fortieth days of the moon as follows: assume the moon is in Scorpio 7*; the third day will be in Sagittarius 7*. [It is necessary to investigate the day in this way. Sagittarius 7* has become the 3rd day.] In the nativity chart the seventh will be found in square, at Aquarius 7*. The fortieth will be at Taurus 7*. (Some add 160* to the moon's position at birth and count off this amount from the moon's sign. Others add to the moon's position at birth <its positions> on the third and seventh and fortieth days, then after calculating, they interpret the moon at those places.)

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

It looks like he's copying it from something, but he doesn't understand it.

From 7° Scorpio to 7° Sagittarius, all he's done is add 30° to the Moon's original Longitude, or 10° per day. The Moon averages 13°12' per day, getting to just over 15° but never slower than 11°48' per day, so what he's doing isn't based on Moon's speed or a Transiting Moon.

That becomes clearer when he says on the 7th Day the Moon is in square at 7° Aquarius, and then again the 40th Day at 7° Taurus.

I thought maybe he was using Profections, but that doesn't work either. You can profect by month, moving one Sign for each month. You can also profect daily at 1 Sign every 2 and a half days or so.

It's a bit of a stretch to think he's profecting the Moon daily. Rounding 2.5 days up to 3 days, yes that would be 1 Sign. It falls apart there, since he'd be adding 1 Sign for every 2 days to get to a square position.

40 Days would be 16 Signs @ 2.5 Days per Sign, but that would put Daily Profected Moon in Pisces, not Taurus. Even rounding to 3, that would make 13 Signs. Rounding down to 2 Days per Sign gives 20 Signs, and in no case do you end up at Taurus.

Moon is specifically profected to examine Health matters. In fact, I believe it was Valens who said that (not to mention that Mars/Moon Primary Directions are very negative, especially for health and life).

Anyway, the way Valens explains it makes no sense to me, not to mention it would be demonstrably wrong. For me, adding 30° puts Moon in the 6th Aries 6th House with enemy Mars, which isn't even remotely descriptive of my first 3 years on Earth (but Transiting Moon exalted in Taurus would be).

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Konrad said:

Delphic Oracle is correct (for the 3rd day). They (the ancients) counted the day of birth as one just as they did with all levels of profections and as Valens does with his Quarters of the Moon technique. It looks like Tsmall has incorrectly posted the natal chart as the 3rd day of the Moon chart, as Jupiter ASC has suggested.

As for Valens quote, it is quite clear he is just illustarting an idealised version of the technique in which the Moon is moving 15 degrees a day. This is, in part, so we understand that the day of birth is one, and therefore the 3rd day is two calendar days and not three. If we write his example out by hand, we see that the 2nd calendar day falls at 7 Sagittarius, the 6th calendar day at 7 Aquarius. The comment about 7 Taurus being the 40th day seems to be a different idea. In the charts I have looked at, the 40th day Moon (39th calendar day as we would count it in our time) falls out at the sign opposed to the natal Moon though sometimes in a diffierent sign if the natal Moon is close to a sign boundary. I am also not sure we are to take only the transiting Moon since Valens says that someone with a malefic or Mercury with the 40th day Moon suffers a violent death, this would mean that everyone with the Moon opposed to a malefic at birth will have an indication of a violent death. I feel we may have to use the whole chart but then this brings up the problem of clock time and what time do these new charts begin at. I would suggest that they be converted into a more natural time system and set for the 3rd, 7th and 40th day of this time rather than modern clock time.

EDIT: sorry I forgot to mention the 160 degree figure given by Valens, if we multiply 13.2 degrees (Moon's mean motion according to a period of 27.3 days)by 39 (40th day), we get 515 (360 + 155 degrees), hence Valens saying some just add 160 degrees to the Moon's natal position.

Also, ignore what I said above about the opposition, DO has been programmed correctly for the 3rd day but not the 7th or 40th for some reason.

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Konrad said:

Yep, sorry, I've been such a dullard. Reading Valens again, he proposes that you use the ideal of the adjacent sign/square sign/opposition sign respectively. He then says that others use the actual 3rd, 7th and 40th days of the Moon. It is the old ideal vs. actual debate! If you use the actual, obviously you would count the day of birth as "one" as there was no zero in ancient mathematics and every other time-lord system counts the beginning point as one and not zero.

I asked Curtis Manwarring about the DO calculation and he said he wanted it to follow the Valens ideal version of adjacent/square/opposition and the only way to do this was to count 2 calendar days/7 calendar days/40 calendar days hence the seemingly mixed together methods of ancient and modern counting.

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BobZemco said:

I can't believe you people made me go read Valens.

My text is formatted differently, so I don't have corresponding page numbers, but this is what Valens says....

/176/ For forecasts of dangers to health, diseases, bleeding, or the mother, we will start with the moon.

Bearing that in mind...

What colostrum lacks in volume it makes up for in power. Some people refer to colostrum as "high octane" milk. It's full of antibodies and immunoglobulins, which not only help protect newborns as they come into our world of bacteria and viruses, but also has a laxative effect that helps them expel the tarry first stools called meconium.

http://www.babycenter.com/404_whats-colostrum_8896.bc

Colostrum is extremely easy to digest, and is therefore the perfect first food for your baby. It is low in volume (measurable in teaspoons rather than ounces), but high in concentrated nutrition for the newborn. Colostrum has a laxative effect on the baby, helping him pass his early stools, which aids in the excretion of excess bilirubin and helps prevent jaundice. When your baby is breastfed early and often, your breasts will begin producing mature milk around the third or fourth day after birth.

Colostrum has an especially important role to play in the baby's gastrointestinal tract. A newborn's intestines are very permeable. Colostrum seals the holes by "painting" the gastrointestinal tract with a barrier which mostly prevents foreign substances from penetrating and possibly sensitizing a baby to foods the mother has eaten.
Colostrum also contains high concentrations of leukocytes, protective white cells which can destroy disease-causing bacteria and viruses.

http://www.llli.org/faq/colostrum.html

Infant Stomach Capacity

Colostrum is high in carbohydrates, high in protein, high in antibodies, and low in fat (as human newborns may find fat difficult to digest). Newborns have very small digestive systems, and colostrum delivers its nutrients in a very concentrated low-volume form.

It has a mild laxative effect, encouraging the passing of the baby's first stool, which is called meconium.

This clears excess bilirubin, a waste product of dead red blood cells which is produced in large quantities at birth due to blood volume reduction, from the infant's body and helps prevent jaundice.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/colostrum.htm

Okay, let's put this together.

Valens is copying from older sources (like Dorotheus --although Dorotheus is not that much older).

Romans counted differently than other contemporary cultures did.

3 Days is 3 Days. Add 3 to birth date eg July 10 + 3 = July 13; May 26 + 3 = May 29 and so on.

This is medical health only, as it relates to infant/mother's health and not about the Native's misery or fortune in life or anything else....once again...

/176/ For forecasts of dangers to health, diseases, bleeding, or the mother, we will start with the moon.

...at least he got that part right.

So....(I called my mother to confirm this -- yes, she likes Astrology)....I have Pitted Mars in the 6th.

Mars is Below Earth, indicating something internal rather than something external (Above Earth means external).

Mars rules liver.

6th House/Sign signifies intestines, liver and kidneys.

I was born with jaundice, caused by liver things.

Doctor told my mother it would go away after a couple of days of breast-feeding, as the aforementioned medical stuff explains much better than I could.

True or False? False. If the doctor practiced Astrology, he wouldn't have been so stupid. Direct Natal Moon by Transit three days ahead and we find Transiting Moon in the 6th House at 20° Aries joining Mars at 28° Aries.

That is a medical issue; specifically to wit, my mother was unable to produce either colustrum or milk, and therefore I had to go back to the doctor, and I won't share what happened next.

Once again, 6th House is intestines, liver and kidneys, Mars is liver, and here's Transiting Moon joining Mars, not to mention Natal Moon was in the 5th House which is stomach and liver.

Next up.....

Jose Feliciano
Sep 10 1945, 10:00 am, +3:00
Lares Puerto Rico 18°N18' 066°W53'

Natal Moon at 1° Scorpio in 1st House (but 2nd Sign).

Directed Moon by Transit on day 3 which is September 13, and we find Directed Transiting Moon at...

...7° Sagittarius....which is an Azieme Degree.

Moon....Azieme.

Directed Transiting Moon square Mercury and Sun in Virgo.

Anyone think Jose Feliciano was blind? Uh, he was blind.

He's still blind.

Let's see.....Moon and Mars are Planetary Enemies......but we knew that....Moon and Mercury are Planetary Enemies and Moon and Sun are Planetary Enemies....you think Mercury enjoys being squared by Enemy Moon from Sagittarius, a Sign that Mercury hates?

On Day 7, Directed Transiting Moon falls at 27° Capricorn, which is not only Moon's Fall, it is a Pitted Degree, and it is....an Azieme Degree.

Moon....Azieme.....blind...pretty obvious.

On Day 40, Directed Transiting Moon comes to 17° Aries which is the 6th House but 7th Sign, and Dispositor Natal Mars is at 1° Cancer.

Note that human gestation is like 39-40 weeks.

One more....

Olive Brasno Oct 8 1914, 3:00 am, +5:00
Old Bridge New Jersey

40°N24'53'' 074°W21'57''

On Day 7, the Directed Transiting Moon falls at 27° Leo in the 12th House/Sign which is a Pitted Degree....and Azieme.

Brasno was a dwarf (she was not a Munchkin in the Wizard of Oz, but her husband was).

Note that Natal Venus is also Azieme.

Anyway, I think this technique is designed solely for the purpose of examining the health of the infant and mother. Note that it is rare, but not unusual for women to hemorrhage in the few days after giving birth. I wouldn't be surprised to see that in the original technique, the position(s) of Transiting Moon would also be compared against the mother's Natal Chart.

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BobZemco said:

Dorotheus (writing before Valens) says only to look at the Sign the Moon enters on the 3rd Day after birth. He briefly explains the purpose is to know the fortune or misery of the Native's upbringing.

In these texts, there are many things that are implied, inferred, presumed, assumed or understood to be, even though they are not explicitly detailed.

In other words, even though the text does not explicitly state that you are to look at a Planet's Sect, Phase, House Position, Degree (for Azieme, Bright, Pitted etc), Speed/Direction, Bound, Aspects and so on, it's understood that those things should always be done.

As best as I can tell, I don't see where Dorotheus mentions the 7th or 40th Days, so it would seem Valens is quoting someone else, and that only serves to cloud the issue more.

Uh, I should probably say I've never used this technique before.

tsmall kept mentioning it, and I know I've come across it before, I just couldn't remember where, until I checked out Dorotheus.

I am convinced more than ever that this is a predictive technique to identify potential health issues with infant and mother.

You follow?

You can't cast a Solar Return, since the infant was just born. The profected Ascendant is still in the Natal Ascendant, so no joy there. And Primary Directions? To what? It's only been a few days.

So....then...how do you make predictions about the infant?

Transits are a total fail and do not work.......unless the Planet is activated.

Which Planets would be activated here?

The Moon which is the Age Ruler through age 4 and the Ascendant Ruler.

Hold that thought for a second...

When an infant is born, what country has the time and money to spend running hundreds of ridiculous diagnostic tests?

None.

And infants are not born with neon lights advertising their medical issues.

It will be several weeks to several months, perhaps even more than a year, before a mother discovers her child is mute, or deaf or blind (and no it doesn't mean she's a bad mother).

An infant dwarf looks like a normal infant. Dwarfism has several distinct causes: hereditary; genetic but not hereditary; and glandular (doesn't Venus rule the Thymus Gland and others? -- an Azieme Venus?).

I believe it is the hereditary and genetic (non-hereditary) conditions that show the infant growing as normal....until a certain age at which time the child stops physically growing, but continues to progress in all other ways.

Seriously, I was blown away when looking at a number of charts.

Jose Feliciano was born blind, but no one knew that for several months, and what are the odds that Transiting Moon twice ends up in Azieme Degrees in two different Signs? Lloyd's of London wouldn't even touch that.

Every chart I pulled up was the same. Wadlaw, the giant, he was nearly 9 feet tall (3 meters) when he died. His Moon ends up on the 40th day in the 12th Sign/House at 0° Capricorn, in a Pitted Degree and in partile square to a Retrograde Natal Mars at 0° Libra. And Natal Saturn....Transiting Moon's Dispositor is in Leo and Retrograde and in the 6th House but 7th Sign, and Moon rules the Natal 6th Sign/House. Natal Venus is Retrograde in Aquarius applying to the opposition of Retrograde Saturn in Leo.

Not every infant has medical issues, but for those that do/did, it's really obvious.

I did not have enough information on mothers to make an evaluation of that, but I'd be inclined to believe that a Scorpio 10th Sign and Transiting Moon in square/opposition or joined to Natal Mars might indicate medical issues for mother. Same with Mars in the 10th and Transiting Moon in square/opposition or joined, or Transiting Moon landing in the 10th and so on. There are of course several different combinations of Planets, Signs and Houses that could indicate the same thing.


That could be anything from fevers to being dropped on your head as an infant or vision problems, up to and including blindness. Could be other things as well.

"Lame" Degrees indicate some kind of congenital birth defect. The defect may not be visible or so obvious, and it may not manifest itself until later in life.

For example, you'll often read about athletes at the high school or university level that "suddenly" collapse and die.

The autopsies often reveal minor defects in the heart, particularly in the heart valves, ventricles or the the walls of the major arteries that carry blood to or from the heart.

Even through medical diagnostic testing, they cannot or would not be discovered, but I'd submit to you that a competent astrologer could discover those, if not through Azieme Degrees in the Natal Chart or using the days of the Moon, then through a thorough delineation of the 6th and 12th Houses.

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Monk said:

Hi Jup,
I'm sorry to see any member banned
but at least i will not be called the Devil again!
It's a shame how things PAN out, time to get on my flute again!

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Kintpuash said:

Speaking of the devil...
The Devil Went Down To Georgia
He was Looking for a Soul to Steal.
I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul...
But if you lose, the Devil gets your soul...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6RUg-NkjY4

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Hi Monk

petosiris said:

The Lord YHVH does nothing unless he reveals his secret counsel to his servants the prophets.

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petosiris said:

There can be 13 months in one year in the biblical calendar, though it is possible there were always 12 before the flood. But I have already pointed out to you, that the luminaries were created for the purpose of marking the appointed times of YHVH, not the other way around according to Genesis 1:14. For before God created the greater luminary, he knew that one of the twelve apostles would betray his only Son on the Passover. He created all glorious things for his glory, and the glory of the Son is glory to the Father.

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petosiris said:

Opal, Jesus was still an infant when he returned from Egypt to Nazareth. The only reason he was taken to Egypt is to not be killed by Herod (who died in the same year) and to fulfill what was spoken by the prophets - Matthew 2:13-23. Fuzzy indeed.

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petosiris said:

Jesus was a craftsman - Mark 6:3 (not necessarily a carpenter). He probably knew a thing or two from the beginning, being the artisan or demiurge of the world - Proverbs 8:30, Col. 1:16. His Father supplied him with the necessary materials, that is power to create. It is probably not coincidental, that when he became man, he was born of Mary the wife of Joseph, son of David, a craftsman - Matthew 13:55.

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petosiris said:

The heavens and the earth, and all that are in them. The house of wisdom is made of seven pillars - Prov. 9:1, which are the seven spirits of God - Isaiah 11:2. I would say this is his most magnificent creation, followed by angels and men.

The vast majority of structures were constructed with stone in Israel, because wood was and is scarce in that region. I don't think we know of anything like that constructed by Jesus, although you are right that tourism would make a lot of money from that like it makes from excavated 1st c. Nazareth and Peter's house in Capernaum for example.

As a man, he raised a destroyed temple in three days, more glorious than before. Where do you think it is now?

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petosiris said:

Really? I am discussing the claim made by Clymer that Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew should read that in the beginning the Gods created the heavens and the earth.



Do you and Clymer know Hebrew? Here is my source for the form of the verb - https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm

It says 3rd person masculine singular.

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petosiris said:

I don't understand what is meant here. The OT has a few verses and a sizeable portion of Ezra and Daniel in Aramaic. The NT is written entirely in Greek. The Septuagint OT and the English Bibles are translations of these texts, not inspired versions.

If there were other versions of the Bible, show me evidence of them.

From an ardent occultist this probably means to obfuscate the scriptures that have been received by all Christians by the will of our Father.

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petosiris said:

So here, Clymer is using exoteric language talking about Jesus as a real historical figure, but esoterically he is telling us that he is a constellation? Is that right?

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petosiris said:

The term you are looking for is anthropomorphic, not humanistic, which has a different connotation.

The main problem with this thinking is that you can only arbitrarily decide what is figurative language, usually based on preconceived notions and personal feelings. So you can mistake well intended literal language for figurative error.

''Facts don't care about your feelings.'' - Ben Shapiro

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petosiris said:

The scriptures do not contain errors. Moses arranged the tribes as the Lord commanded, not how you wished them to be, probably for different symbolic and military reasons than you do for your alleged astral and Julian/Gregorian calendar (which didn't exist at the time) arrangement.

All the sons of Israel are men, Reuben is the firstborn, but he lost his double portion to Joseph, because of a sin he had committed.

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petosiris said:

Do you believe he is Son and Word? All the texts of the heretics call him Son and Word as far as I know.

Why did God allow the destruction of the Second Temple and the exile of the Jews by the Romans if the first time he did that because of idolatry and his people not obeying his commandments - 2 Kings 17:7?

for the scripture says ''no one who denies the son has the father. whoever confesses the son has the father also'' and ''by this you know the spirit of god - every spirit that confesses that jesus christ has come in the flesh is from god'' and ''whoever confesses that jesus is the son of god, god abides in him, and he in god''.

If God has Son and Word and Messenger, then not paying homage to the second incurs wrath as not paying homage to the first as Psalm 2 plainly says (cf. John 5:23).

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petosiris said:

He is indeed a sun, but not a setting sun of heat, but a risen sun of righteousness, with healing in its wings for those who fear his name, but burning as a furnace for all evildoers - Malachi 4:1-6.

He alone is the word of YHVH who directly spoke the words of the Most High, because he is the firstborn and preeminent in all things - Colossians 1:15-20.

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petosiris said:

I don't expect you to blindly agree. It is true that both of us believes as he chooses, but I acknowledge your position and beliefs without twisting them, they are twisted and adversarial as they are.

I would like you to at least acknowledge my position and where I am coming from. I have slight doubts you check all verses and passages I use. You clearly do not have interest in researching them further, though for your information I skimmed your source in the OP along with other blasphemies in it you omitted.

I listed many arguments from scripture and even from the customs of the nations that a concubine is not a slave nor can she marry or become concubine of another man, for that would be adultery.

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JUPITERASC said:

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conspiracy theorist said:

Au revoir Kitchy

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