Decanates and Rulership Help!

Looking further into decanates and dwadisattvas I'm discovering a whole new layer of chart potential and it's really demystifying my chart and I'm seeing a whole new level of potential with other people's charts as well. I think that not taking decanates into account when interpreting a natal chart is a big mistake. House rulership is very important too. I've run into some problems though, see below.

My chart seems to be ruled by mostly Saturn/Capricorn and the Moon/Cancer. yet looking at the decanates, only Uranus falls into the Capricorn/Capricorn decanate of Capricorn while the Ascendant, Neptune and Saturn all fall into the Taurus decanate. My Mercury in Virgo also falls into the Taurus decanate and my 7th house, signified by Libra is loaded. Mars falls into Capricorn in the 4th house of Cancer but Pluto falls into the 2nd decan of Scorpio, ruled by Pisces, as does my Chiron and Jupiter in Cancer.

Now, if we assume that Neptune is a higher octave of Venus, it would appear that my chart is primarily ruled by that Venusian/Neptunian vibration. My Neptune conjuncts my Ascendant in the 2nd degree of Capricorn ruled by Taurus, making it more of a Venusian/Neptunian energy only shared by the Saturnine/Capricorn energy.

So far I assign a point system for each part of rulership when looking at a chart. Here's a short explanation of dwads, though I didn't use the tables and found it more efficient to find a calculator for them http://www.scribd.com/doc/26698053/Anyara-Astrology

And a quick reference for planetary rulership;
http://horoscopeswithin.com/decans.php

So using my chart as an example

By sign;
Aries: 0
Taurus: 1
Gemini: 0
Cancer: 2
Leo: 2
Virgo: 1
Libra: 0
Scorpio: 1
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 3
Aquarius: 0
Pisces: 0

By decan;
Aries: 1 (Aries decan of Leo, Sun located there)
Taurus: 3
Gemini: 0
Cancer: 0
Leo: 1
Virgo: 0
Libra: 0
Scorpio: 0
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 2
Aquarius: 0
Pisces: 3

By dwadisattva;
Aries: 0
Taurus: 4
Gemini: 1
Cancer: 0
Leo: 1
Virgo: 2
Libra: 0
Scorpio: 0
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 0
Aquarius: 1
Pisces: 2

Super Dwad (calculated using javascript calculator found with Google);
Aries: 2
Taurus: 1
Gemini: 1
Cancer: 0
Leo: 0
Virgo: 0
Libra: 2
Scorpio: 1
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 0
Aquarius: 1
Pisces: 0

By house (assuming sign rulership by house);
Aries: 1 (Saturn in the First house)
Taurus: 0 (No planets in the Second)
Gemini: 0 (No planets in the Third... you get the idea)
Cancer: 1
Leo: 0
Virgo: 0
Libra: 4
Scorpio: 1
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 1
Aquarius: 0
Pisces: 2

Totals
Aries: 4
Taurus: 9
Gemini: 2
Cancer: 3
Leo: 4
Virgo: 3
Libra: 6
Scorpio: 3
Sagittarius: 0
Capricorn: 6
Aquarius: 2
Pisces: 7


Ruling Planets (this is where we assign our points based on planetary rulership for the signs, for signs ruled by 2 planets we assign a point to each planet);
Sun (Ruling Leo); 4
Moon (Ruling Cancer); 3
Mercury (Ruling Virgo and Gemini); 5
Venus (Ruling Taurus and Libra); 15
Mars (Ruling Aries); 4
Jupiter (Ruling Sagittarius); 0
Saturn (Ruling Capricorn); 6
Uranus (Ruling Aquarius); 2
Neptune (Ruling Pisces); 7
Pluto (Ruling Scorpio; 3

Now obviously Venus and Mercury have double the potential points here, so in order to solve this I am stuck between wanting to divide the sum total of the points for those planets or finding dual rulership for each sign but then rulership is shared by 2 planets in all instances except Mercury and Venus where rulership is shared by 2 signs. Doing that we get this as a result,

Sun (Ruling Leo); 4
Moon (Ruling Cancer); 3
Mercury (Ruling Virgo and Gemini); 5
Venus (Ruling Taurus and Libra); 15
Mars (Ruling Aries and Scorpio); 7
Jupiter (Ruling Sagittarius and Pisces); 7
Saturn (Ruling Capricorn and Aquarius); 8
Uranus (Ruling Aquarius); 2
Neptune (Ruling Pisces); 7
Pluto (Ruling Scorpio); 3

This leaves my chart ruled by Venus then Saturn...

But this leaves out the Sun, Moon, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and gives the planets with doubles way too many potential points. Something is missing

Anyone want to perhaps correct my train of thought here? There's a missing variable I'm not taking into account, this doesn't make sense in a symmetrical way.

Hi Zonark-- A super Australian astrologer who has written about dwad interpretation is: www.aliceportman.com .

Just looking at the point system you've given, it would seem to me that Venus is the sleeper in your chart. It makes a nice conjunction with Jupiter, but otherwise doesn't seem to be a strong focalizer. Your domiciled planets (sun, moon, Mercury, Pluto, Saturn) give your radix chart a very strong character to begin with. Then your Jupiter is exalted in Cancer.

Many people have no domiciled planets, so lucky you!

waybread said:

Hi Zonark-- A super Australian astrologer who has written about dwad interpretation is: www.aliceportman.com .

Just looking at the point system you've given, it would seem to me that Venus is the sleeper in your chart. It makes a nice conjunction with Jupiter, but otherwise doesn't seem to be a strong focalizer. Your domiciled planets (sun, moon, Mercury, Pluto, Saturn) give your radix chart a very strong character to begin with. Then your Jupiter is exalted in Cancer.

Many people have no domiciled planets, so lucky you!

Click to expand...

Hi Waybread, I linked to Alice's insight on dwads somewhere in my tedious post

Well Venus is the Oriental planet in my chart (rising before the Sun) and just before the Vertex too. It also squares the MC and opposes the North Node. It's also at home in the 7th house. I'd say that all makes it pretty significant.

Have you ever made a dwad chart for yourself, waybread? Complete with aspects and everything? I'd love to find a chart program that'd cast dwad charts.

I think there are several ways to do a dwad chart, depending upon how you determine the dwads, as there are several methods for that. One is to do a 12th harmonic chart. (Available in the free charts section at www.astro.com.) The other way is more intricate, but Alice Portman's or somebody or other's website on dwads should explain how it is done. My impression is that a dwad chart can be done by hand. Within each 2.5 degree segment, you can calibrate the degree of your planet in the radix chart to the comparable degree in the dwad-as-sign. I've looked at dwads some, but haven't done the chart by hand. (High math anxiety!)

While your Venus does some interesting things, I've always thought of domiciled planets as the trump face-cards in the horoscope.

waybread said:

I think there are several ways to do a dwad chart, depending upon how you determine the dwads, as there are several methods for that. One is to do a 12th harmonic chart. (Available in the free charts section at www.astro.com.) The other way is more intricate, but Alice Portman's or somebody or other's website on dwads should explain how it is done. My impression is that a dwad chart can be done by hand. Within each 2.5 degree segment, you can calibrate the degree of your planet in the radix chart to the comparable degree in the dwad-as-sign. I've looked at dwads some, but haven't done the chart by hand. (High math anxiety!)

While your Venus does some interesting things, I've always thought of domiciled planets as the trump face-cards in the horoscope.

Click to expand...

I hope all that math anxiety isn't from a negative public education experience, that's how mine started but luckily studying astrology motivated me to chomp through it

I have a javascript calculator here that will give you the dwad and super dwad of any planet or other point of interest so long as the time is exact to the seconds (well, exact to the seconds for super dwads but not for just the dwads)

The link;
http://veikkoniemi.com/en/software/java/Dwad/index.php

Totally safe too, I've been using it for weeks without any issues. Works like a charm. I suppose I could just draw the chart out by hand and I am a visual learner, but I'd like for the degrees to be exact and with that, it's best to draw it using a program. Once you do have all the degrees for each planet's dwad it's pretty easy to calculate aspects between them from there, if just a bit tedious. Example, say my Sun's dwad turns out to be Taurus :26:31:36 (which it is and those numbers would be days, minutes, seconds respectively) then all I would do is take those numbers and calculate them against all the other points/planets I wanted to in order to find any aspects between them.

Example, using my Sun's dwad in Taurus I compare it to the Moon's dwad which lands at Pisces:10:11:36. So to get to the Sun from my Moon you'd have to pass through about 76 degrees, maybe 77 if you round it off. Way too big for a sextile, way too small for a square, a bit too loose to be quintile (I usually use a 3 degree orb for quintiles which are 72 degree separations) and it's pretty close to bi-novile (80 degrees) but that's a really obscure aspect that I don't want to pay much attention to just yet.

So I'll treat my dwad Sun and Moon as not forming any aspects between each other.

Now I went down the list of dwad degrees a bit further and noticed my Neptune's dwad is less than a degree away from my Sun's. Neptune is at Taurus:25:47:12, which puts it right next to the dwad sun. A conjunction! A combust Neptune in Taurus! Oh wow that explains a lot! That aspect is part of what makes me an artistic person, constantly drawing, painting, singing (terribly) and being creative in general. Apparently it also would make the native quite reclusive, which it indeed does. Dwads are awesome!

I'm not a math wizard and it's killing me to not have a more efficient way of devising dwad aspects but when I do come up with one, rest assured everyone here will know

I tried using the harmonic chart for this but I must be fudging something because I only see a 9 harmonics chart and a single harmonics chart, no 12? I played around with the day field for the single chart and couldn't get the same results I got with that little javascript calculator so I think I'll stick to that unless you can tell me exactly how it works

Yes, domicile planets are quite prominent. I like to think of aspects, especially when they're between domiciled planets, as being the most prominent part of a natal chart. Example, my domicile Saturn in Capricorn opposite my domicile Moon in Cancer is the tightest aspect in my chart and is so prominent that in a few intense spiritual experiences, I've interacted with an archetypal Father and Mother of the Universe and had dialogue with them. The single aspect represents involvement of those two very powerful polar forces.

Unfortunately my math anxiety is due to a junior high math teacher who would send kids to the board to work out "cold" problems in front of the rest of the class. If the kids made mistakes he would scream at us and even throw chalk board erasers. I began to associate math with terror. I suppose I could "process" it out of my system, but then I haven't generally felt disadvantaged in life by not being a math wiz.

Under the name of Alice McDermott, Alice Portman does participate on this forum occasionally. Perhaps a message sent to her via her website would encourage her to give us a step-by-step primer in constructing dwad charts. She did this a while back at the Astrodienst forum but I don't know if that thread is still there.

To do a higher harmonic chart at Astrodienst, scroll down to the menu item just below the one that says "9 harmonic charts." Then where you see today's date, input the number you want for the harmonic chart (like 12) in place of today's day of the month. That should do it.

Zonark, if you will forgive an unsolicited personal remark.... if your photo looks anything like you, I notice that you have coverered your head pretty completely: head scarf, glasses, beard. I might expect that from Scorpio rising, but not Capricorn; unless maybe there's a Big Ouch from the moon-Chiron opposition. Yet I don't think I've seen a stronger chart previously, in terms of the number of domiciled planets. It would be interesting to see what happens to your ASC in a dwad chart!

waybread said:

Unfortunately my math anxiety is due to a junior high math teacher who would send kids to the board to work out "cold" problems in front of the rest of the class. If the kids made mistakes he would scream at us and even throw chalk board erasers. I began to associate math with terror. I suppose I could "process" it out of my system, but then I haven't generally felt disadvantaged in life by not being a math wiz.

Under the name of Alice McDermott, Alice Portman does participate on this forum occasionally. Perhaps a message sent to her via her website would encourage her to give us a step-by-step primer in constructing dwad charts. She did this a while back at the Astrodienst forum but I don't know if that thread is still there.

To do a higher harmonic chart at Astrodienst, scroll down to the menu item just below the one that says "9 harmonic charts." Then where you see today's date, input the number you want for the harmonic chart (like 12) in place of today's day of the month. That should do it.

Zonark, if you will forgive an unsolicited personal remark.... if your photo looks anything like you, I notice that you have coverered your head pretty completely: head scarf, glasses, beard. I might expect that from Scorpio rising, but not Capricorn; unless maybe there's a Big Ouch from the moon-Chiron opposition. Yet I don't think I've seen a stronger chart previously, in terms of the number of domiciled planets. It would be interesting to see what happens to your ASC in a dwad chart!

Click to expand...

Oh yes, I had quite a few terrible math teachers too. Matter of fact I can only remember one mildly pleasant one! I don't know if it was bad luck or the system trying to beat the intuitive out of me but math has always been associated with fear for much the same reason. You're right in that there's no real need to pursue learning the ropes doggedly, absolutely! Just don't let the fear control you when it comes time to test your wits on a number problem. I wish there were a little Jedi emoticon for this as it'd be appropriate. No pushing, no pulling away

I'll look into the astrodienst archives and sent Portman a message later tonight

The harmonic chart still doesn't match up with the results I got using the calculator. I think I'll scratch that method for now.

I don't mind the unsolicited remark. I usually like to cover my face up. My dwad for the Ascendant is in Gemini and the super dwad is in Aries. So no Scorpio there. I don't even have all that much Scorpio energy in the dwads elsewhere either. Maybe it's the Neptune conjuncting my ascendant wanting to make my appearance harder to ascertain. That seems reasonable.