Significators?

stargazer1

Well-known member
Hi folks,
I wonder if anyone can help me with choosing significators. I asked a question about two family members together, (as in, "Will my mum and uncle......). Which house would signify them as a collective "they". Could anyone point me in the right direction here, as its little things like this I get stumped on before I even try to interpret the chart. Thanks folk.:confused::confused::confused:
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I think -

Your mum is ruled by 4th house. Is your uncle your fathers' brother? If that's the case then he is ruled by 12th house.
 

Sunrise

Well-known member
Hi folks,
I wonder if anyone can help me with choosing significators. I asked a question about two family members together, (as in, "Will my mum and uncle......). Which house would signify them as a collective "they". Could anyone point me in the right direction here, as its little things like this I get stumped on before I even try to interpret the chart. Thanks folk.:confused::confused::confused:

I think -

Your mum is ruled by 4th house. Is your uncle your fathers' brother? If that's the case then he is ruled by 12th house.
should clarify your question
the fourth house and his ruler symbolizes the father and the mother 10th
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1eb.html
 
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stargazer1

Well-known member
Thanks Abby and Sunrise. I knew the 10th house rules mother and it is her brother so it would be her 3rd, the charts 12th. However, the problem I am facing is which house is it if I asked a question that began, "Will they.....?". The situation involves the two of them against another individual. Do you see my problem now Which house would signify the two of them as a unit?
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Who is the other person? Each person is signified as we have both mentioned. If they were in alliance, it would still be shown in the chart.
 

stargazer1

Well-known member
I know that trials are 1 against 7th. I tried approaching it as "Will they....,

Or should i be looking at both their own significators and the 7th from theirs. But that would then give my aunt two house placements. And that cant be right.
 

stargazer1

Well-known member
When I asked the question I was thinking about my mum and uncle and the predicament they are in, It is my aunt who is taking them to court. Obviously I am on my mums side but I was focused on my aunt when I asked the question. Would a better approach be do you think if I used 7th house as aunt the opponent and 1st house as her enemy, my mum and uncle. The moon was in the 7th house when I cast the chart.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I would love to see the chart. It would be easier. I have different opinion of which house rules mother. I believe 4th house rules mother. Her brother would be 6th house. His wife 12th house. I personally don't know what area rules civil court cases. But looking at aspects and dignities between these significators Ive now mentioned should give it away. The one's that have more strength will win.
 

stargazer1

Well-known member
Hi Abby, here is the first chart I cast. I did a second one but deleted it. as you can see my first question was, "Will Sandra win the court case against my mum and uncle?". The situation is rather knotty. My grandmother died a few years back and left her property to her 4 children. My mum, and her three brothers. The house was not sold as two of the brothers were living in it. This is where the problems started. The other brother wanted his share and wanted the house to be sold so the money could be divided up between them all. The two brothers still living in the property refused and they argued back and forth for years. Then a few years ago the other brother died, so now HIS wife is demanding the money, so it is my aunt through marriage that is taking my mum and uncle to court. She is trying to get my uncle to be forced out of the property by eviction and to sell the property so she can get her hands on her dead husbands share. Here is the chart.
 

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Abby83

Well-known member
Ok so from what I can see, it doesn't look good.

Straight away you can see 4th house ruler mercury (your mum) in poor aspect to the 7th house ruler Saturn (the court). You are in the 7th house intensified by pluto showing your struggles as you are in hard aspect to Uranus and mars in aries in 11th house of groups and wishes and friends etc. Mars here is in dignity but im not exactly sure who it represents yet...
It starts to get tricky when you look for mothers' siblings. The 6th house rules her siblings so Jupiter rules that and because you specifically asked about one particular brother, he would be Jupiter. His positive applying aspect to Saturn has passed, although he is still involved.
I cant say much about the auntie, she doesn't stand out. I think if there is a winner it's in one of the brothers. But which one I don't know. I don't see either you, mum, or auntie in strong position. But brother yes. Maybe even the brothers getting together to win the case.
 
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stargazer1

Well-known member
Thanks abby, the case will be heard at court just after the easter holiday. I will give you an update on how things turn out. i hope you are right. Thanks again for your input.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Yeah that sounds about right with how close that mercury Saturn aspect is. What do you think. Does this sound fitting or do you have no idea how it will play out. What's your hunch.

You hope im right? As in you want the brothers to win? Yeah I cant help but feel this auntie is setting herself high for what she thinks she can get away with. Let me know how it goes. Good luck.
 
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tikana

Well-known member
when will you people start studying horary astrology textbooks?
stop sending people on wrong paths. If you are unsure, look things up!
moms are 10th house not 4th
4th are roots and fathers


books


William Lilly
 
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stargazer1

Well-known member
Hi Tikana,
Thank you for your input. There are a lot of astrologers who still hold the view that Mums are 4th house and Fathers 10th. My approach to horary is very analytical because of the differing views held. Ill look at both sides of the argument if you will. Many astrologers who published their work a couple of decades ago are now contradicting themselves. the ones I respect are the ones who openly admit that the technique they once held to they now believe to be wrong, based solely on years of experience and their own charts. I personally believe myself that Mums are 10th house and Fathers 4th. I always keep an open mind. Many astrologers can reach the correct destination, but many have taken differant routes to get there. They can still end up at the same place. My own take on the chart is that my aunt will win the case as the verdict, 4th house Mercury, aspects her by square. She will win but she wont like the verdict. My reasoning is this, she is definately 7th house as I was focused on her when i asked the question. I look on her as the open enemy. That would have to make my mum and uncle joint 1st house as her opponents. Looking at their conditions the 1st house Moon is slightly better off than 7th Saturn. But the verdict aspects Saturn. The other possible outcome could be a dissolving of the situation as her and the judge are both RX. This signifies a breaking of contract. The case could possibly be thrown out, hence she still wont like the 4th house end of the matter. There is also the possiblility that she will drop the case as she is RX, changing her mind. Frawley says in civil trials its 1 versus 7th. The "team" you favour should be given 1st. So this is how I have approached the chart. He also stated that the 1st house can be a collective "We" if there is more than one person involved. However, this is where I faced a dillema. This was the basis for my original question when i asked who is the collective "they", as in "Will they.....?". For instance if I had asked, "Will they sell the house?". Which house placement would signify them if the "they" was my mum and uncle. Wouild you happen to know Tikana? I cant use just 10th house as mum because then the house would solely belong to her. The house belongs to her brother too. So is it possible to have a collective "They" in a chart. But which house would it be? Or would it just be 7th as general "other" people in this instance. Many astrologers hold the view that if you cant find a definitive house for them to plump for the 7th. I would appreciate your thoughts on this Tikana if you have the time.
 

stargazer1

Well-known member
Oh, and before I forget, there are other astrologers who hold the view that whichever parent holds the most authority in a family dynamic can claim the 10th house. So....differant opinions again.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Well Id have to say whenever ive done a horary re my mother in law (or even another astrologer doing it for me), she being my husbands mother has always been correct in being in the 10th house and when I reflect on my own natal chart the 4th house has been correct for me re my mother. My 10th house has been correct with my father. That experience of accuracy every time is enough for me. Say what you will, it works for me. I don't believe in the opposite which is what you say.

Cancer is 4th house, which is all about mother and nurturing.

Capricorn is 10th house of authority and father.

We all know this. When on earth has this suddenly changed?
 
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stargazer1

Well-known member
As I already stated to Tikana Abby that the 10th for mothers is only my opinion. Thats not to say its the correct one. I like to keep an open mind and listen to both sides of the debate. All I can do is continue to do charts, and based on the results I find regarding the outcome I will make a decision as to which i will stick with. You may indeed turn out to be correct. I have not done enough charts concerning either mothers or fathers to make an educated, affirmitive choice either way. At the end of the day even seasoned astrologers are still practicing students. I like to keep an open mind and value everyones opinion. The best teachers in the world are those who approach their students with humility. I always find that the best approach to any chart I have done is before hand to define how I view the person I am asking about. This seems to work for me. And all of us as students should be humble in our approach also.
 

tikana

Well-known member
i personally dont listen or stick with the opinions of today's astrologers or amateur astrologers for that matter I go directly to early astrology pre-Lilly times. you can go through research judgement of the nativities and see who is using 10th for fathers and 4th for mothers, be my guest. in my natal chart it is very obvious who is the mother and who is the father. Its right on target. 3rd volume of christian astrology that deals with the nativities clearly defines who is who.

you can start with Al-Biruni and end with Ivy Goldstein

medieval astrologers used mothers as 10th so stick with that. always worked.
 
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