Elevated and pitted degrees
- Thread starter dr. farr
- Start date
Elevated and pitted degrees MUST be regarded as modifying FACTORS, not as all powerful final arbiters: a pitted degree tends to modify a planet in it toward balance, an elevated degree amplifies the + and mitigates the - influences/situation of that planet. Pitted degrees also tend to BLOCK: they can delay the manifestation of a planetary influence or of a Lot which falls in the pitted degree-eg Marilyn Monroe's Lot of Suicide was very prominent in her natal chart: but did she have many attempted suicide episodes throughout her life? NO-only 1 episode (her actual suicide)-why? Because the natal Lot of Suicide was IN A PITTED DEGREE-it was BLOCKED-and it took time (36 years in her case) to manifest.
These degree-qualities need to be understood well before we can successfully use them: unfortunately most of the available books today, including Traditionalist texts, do not go into the degrees and their modifying qualities, or even mention them in many cases!
I consider the elevations and pitted degrees quite important as MODIFYING factors in contemporary charts, and certainly no one can accuse ME of being reactionary or anything even approaching a "purist" Traditionalist-that's for sure!!
These degree-qualities need to be understood well before we can successfully use them: unfortunately most of the available books today, including Traditionalist texts, do not go into the degrees and their modifying qualities, or even mention them in many cases!
I consider the elevations and pitted degrees quite important as MODIFYING factors in contemporary charts, and certainly no one can accuse ME of being reactionary or anything even approaching a "purist" Traditionalist-that's for sure!!
poyi
Premium Member
That makes a lot more sense to me now. Thank you for sharing your ideas and be so erratic as usual lol.
Cause I do see a lot negative impacts by the pitted degrees early in life for sure, especially thinking about the traditional value and common expectations in the past in general. But then I don't see the total END of the Jupiter as an example. I totally agree there might be a delay or blockage instead of it functioning badly throughout the whole lifespan. It will be interesting to see how it turns out as I growing older.
Again, in my Chinese chart, it also suggested very delay fortune in life. The matter is if I could survive the first half part of life
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poyi
Premium Member
If Pitted degrees meaning delay and blockage in the early part of life. I have got another point to make.
During the time when this method was common used. Most of the people didn't have long lifespan. So perhaps, the astrologers never really get to see if the Elevated and Pitted degrees lost it functions as it claimed later on in life.
During the time when this method was common used. Most of the people didn't have long lifespan. So perhaps, the astrologers never really get to see if the Elevated and Pitted degrees lost it functions as it claimed later on in life.
That is certainly possible: indeed this might be a factor in the absolute and unconditional statements often found in the ancient authors about such and such indications regarding such and such planets in such and such situations: the tendency to absolutist and unconditional declarations in oldtime literature, West and East, is decidedly present-perhaps the relative short span of life, particularly so during the Middle Ages, MIGHT have been something of a factor in some such absolutist/unconditional pronouncements during those olden times...an interesting thought!
poyi
Premium Member
Chinese astrologers overtime had changed the way they interpret the charts especially when it comes to reading for women. As in the past for a woman working, being known in the public, having multiple marriages, childless, in any case to be able to have her own income, having premarital sex all these are forbidden. In many cases, in the old time, the only possibility for a woman needed to work and go to the public that would either be working as a slave or prostitute. Women with honor and wealth, status were never allowed or needed to get out of the house.
So even today's Chinese astrologers still using the same old methods but the way they interpret female charts is entirely different. They would say a busy career women this day to be greatly dignified in the society.
Again unfortunately, since they never really published good quality books they like to keep the knowledge to their own little society to stay in power you could say. The only way to learn Chinese astrology is to actually have face to face classes by the Masters once you got accepted as disciple. So as a result I couldn't go further with the study of Chinese astrology.
Andrea_
Well-known member
Oh Man, my Sun is at 1 58' degrees Capricorn, 12th House, but it conjuncts Jupiter at 27°43' (so mine's near the Galatic Centre too!), but it is in Sagittarius and in the Twelfth House (so domicile + accidental dignity) plus they only conjuct each other and makes some semi-sextiles (with moon, venus, pluto and uranus) so what could this mean?
Could it possibly mean that the "pittied" effect of the degree is somewhat cancelled out by the well-positioned Jupiter? But then again, what does standing on the Galactic Centre mean? Does this bring a negative influence?
I have one of those charts without oppositions or squares (maybe only an almost 10 degree orb square betwen Jup and Saturn? and 4 semi-squares), but my life hasn't been that easy, and i went through so many, and i'm pretty down psychologically speaking. It is hard for me to put myself together, as i seem so feel everything around myself: oppresions, influences, bad or good things that affect me without discern sometimes (i can be pretty sensible to my environment!)
Although one thing i'm sure of: i create and handle my own life and whatever happens, i'm always the one who hurts myself, almost never others, or exterior circumstances.
Also, just being curious: what are the reasons taken into account that prompts one to call a degree elevated or pittied? Can an elevated degree also coincide with a beneficial fixed star? or with a non-beneficial star and so cancel it's supposedly good effect?
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Pitted (or elevated) state of a planet (or Lot) is only ONE of the factors to be considered in coming to a determination of the net status of that planet or Lot. Remember that the pitted state tends to minimize BOTH negative and positive expressions of the given planet in that pit, to lessen the intensity of that planet's expression of influences. And, the pitted degree tends to block or delay the full manifestation of the influences of the pitted planet (or Lot) in TIME.
No one knows (for certain) where the "celestial topography" came from: the pits and elevations of the degrees of the zodiacal circle appeared "full blown" (in the historical record at least) in the works of Antiochus of Athens, prior to 200 AD.
There is no equivalent "celestial topography" (pits and elevations) to be found in the Vedic or Chinese astrological systems.
In your specific example, I would interpret Sun @ 1:58 Capricorn as climbing out of its pit, and would attribute very little (indeed, if any) pitted influence upon the Sun, since it is within 2 minutes of being out of the pitted degree: pitted degree influences start from the first few seconds of the degree, and pretty much are overcome when the planet is in the last few minutes of the pitted degree.
No one knows (for certain) where the "celestial topography" came from: the pits and elevations of the degrees of the zodiacal circle appeared "full blown" (in the historical record at least) in the works of Antiochus of Athens, prior to 200 AD.
There is no equivalent "celestial topography" (pits and elevations) to be found in the Vedic or Chinese astrological systems.
In your specific example, I would interpret Sun @ 1:58 Capricorn as climbing out of its pit, and would attribute very little (indeed, if any) pitted influence upon the Sun, since it is within 2 minutes of being out of the pitted degree: pitted degree influences start from the first few seconds of the degree, and pretty much are overcome when the planet is in the last few minutes of the pitted degree.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
positive also raises this same idea
and wonders
HOWEVER
dr. farr responds
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
dr. farr is experiencing health issues currently
and not posting on the forum
so he is not able to debate the issue with you
Marcoilrosso
Well-known member
Can someone find any evidence of what placements in these degrees are supposed to mean?
intuitivepiscesmercury6
Active member
"-these elevated or pitted degrees have no orbs (unlike the critical degrees)-the planet must be in the exact degree"
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been looking all around the internet for this information.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been looking all around the internet for this information.
Thought I would refresh one of my old threads: this refers to the "celestial topography" of elevated and pitted degrees-I use these (I am not familiar with any of our contemporary traditionalist practitioners making use of them) and I find they are of some value as NUANCES modifying planets (and Lots) influences, both in analytical delineation and in predictive work.
The technical term for these elevated and pitted degrees (as well as for bright and dark/smokey degrees) is "MYRIOGENESIS", (first applied to these concepts during the Greco-Roman period), which means "a study of the single, individual degrees of the signs of the zodiac"...
The technical term for these elevated and pitted degrees (as well as for bright and dark/smokey degrees) is "MYRIOGENESIS", (first applied to these concepts during the Greco-Roman period), which means "a study of the single, individual degrees of the signs of the zodiac"...
AtlanticPacific
Well-known member
Thank you Dr. Farr for reviving this very interesting thread. A clarification question - you mentioned that pitted planets that are retrograde are neutralized, and you also mentioned that pitted planets at critical degrees "shines forth from its pit". Which would prevail if both situations were in play? In other words, I have Venus at 22 degrees Scorpio (a critical degree from what I've gathered) which is also Retrograde and pitted. Would the sum effect be that it's neutralized? Many thanks!
stellamora
Well-known member
Wow. I have a one elevated degree. My sun 29' Taurus (I was actually concerned about this degree being conjunct really malefic fixed stars pleaides/alycone) something to do with -bad eyesight to which none of this has played out.-
Although now I feel a bit worried because my neptune sits in 27' Capricorn which is considered 'pitted' and I associate my neptune with my personal psychic development and because it's pitted I'm not sure how that's going to affect my process.. My neptune is also natally retrograde.
Although now I feel a bit worried because my neptune sits in 27' Capricorn which is considered 'pitted' and I associate my neptune with my personal psychic development and because it's pitted I'm not sure how that's going to affect my process.. My neptune is also natally retrograde.
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Sun in an elevated degree eliminates most any malefic influence of the planet so posited. Neptune in a pitted degree means either an inhibition of the planet's influences, or equally it can mean a delay in the full development of that planet's influences, or that the full development of the pitted planet's influence will be an uphill struggle extended over time.
stellamora
Well-known member
Well thank you very much! Big relief in concern to fixed stars 