The book of revelation

petosiris

Banned

Who?

suggested taking down all those highly placed crosses to encourage a Second Coming.

On what Scriptural basis is someone making this claim?

''Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.'' - 2 Peter 3

There are ways to hasten the coming of the day - one is by fulfilling righteous prophecies (God forbid the faithful fulfill unrighteousness) - for example preaching the gospel to the whole world (Matthew 24:14). Another way is by praying in the way the Lord Anointed himself taught (Matthew 6:9-13 - see ''your kingdom come'').

That instrument of torture isn't a welcome mat! Even wearing one shows blatant callousness toward what He was forced to endure in order to fulfil his role as Scapegoat. Celebrate His life and teachings, not His death.

Not all denominations wear crosses, usually the more faithful ones do not (especially the more ''ornamental'' ones). Protestants don't worship crosses. Those churches that put simple crosses over buildings or literature usually mean to symbolize their faith in the forgiveness of sins by Christ's death.

It isn't Scriptural or advised, but it doesn't go against Scripture, I think.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Actually no, there are plenty of people who are not my neighbours. When Jesus said to love and pray for your enemies, he didn't meant that your enemies are your neighbours.

Actually Jesus meant exactly that you should love your enemies. From Matthew 5:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

(Bible Gateway translation.)

Who is your neighbour? See Luke 10: 25-37, the parable of the good Samaritan.

See also the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.")

See also Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus does not distinguish between Christians and non-Christians in terms of who deserves our care. With the separating the "sheep from the goats" metaphor, the goats are the ones too hard-hearted to help someone in distress.

From Romans 2: 1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."
 

waybread

Well-known member
Shouting ''Hoshana'' or shouting ''Crucify him''. Pretty big difference in deed right there.

Well, this is where you might want to read some religious history. Crucifixion was a Roman method of punishment, not a Jewish one.

Consider that Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in Jerusalem. He had every authority to decide the earthly fate of Jesus, backed up by the military occupation of Israel/Palestine. They could have quelled an angry mob had Pilate chosen to call on the troops. Pontius Pilate was known from extra-biblical sources, notably for brutally squashing several rebellions. The "angry mob" story seems not to add up.

As the seat of the early Christian church became established in Rome, the early church leaders expeditiously blamed the Jews, not Romans, for the death of Jesus.

On the other hand, if you look at how Jesus lived his life specifically to fulfill the prophecies, he more or less had to die at a young age.

"Hoshanna" is a Hebrew word, whose appearance in the Bible long predates Jesus.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Actually Jesus meant exactly that you should love your enemies. From Matthew 5:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

(Bible Gateway translation.)

Who is your neighbour? See Luke 10: 25-37, the parable of the good Samaritan.

See also the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.")

See also Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus does not distinguish between Christians and non-Christians in terms of who deserves our care. With the separating the "sheep from the goats" metaphor, the goats are the ones too hard-hearted to help someone in distress.

From Romans 2: 1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

I see there's an attempt to translate Mathew 25:45 "....As you do into the least of these...." as pertaining ONLY to those who convert to Christianity. Sounds like you have Biblical evidence to the contrary.
 
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petosiris

Banned
See also Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus does not distinguish between Christians and non-Christians in terms of who deserves our care. With the separating the "sheep from the goats" metaphor, the goats are the ones too hard-hearted to help someone in distress.

Do you really not see the allusion of the distressed with Christ? All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned - everyone - to his own way, while the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Actually Jesus meant exactly that you should love your enemies.

When Jesus said to love and pray for your enemies, he didn't meant that your enemies are your neighbours. Are you really saying that there is no distinction between two brothers in fellowship compared to the relationship of a Christian and an Islamist Taliban? The minorities in the hostile places of the Middle East would do everything to live as neighbours with the Muslims who are sinning by murdering and raping. If people in those regions engage in self-defense, they would not have sin (since self-defense is not contrary to the golden rule), but if they desire to be perfect - by being peacekeepers and blessing their persecutors, they would put burning coals on the Taliban. See Romans 12.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I wasn’t paying attention before 20 years ago. However, at least since then, a loud strain of American Christianity tied closely to the military has been attempting to hasten the Second Coming by approaching annihilation, and manually forcing the prerequisites into being.

That's self-fulfilling prophecy regarding the Tribulation, with no assurance of a Second Coming to follow. That's deluded, illogical thinking. A true prophecy can neither be hastened nor delayed.
 

petosiris

Banned
Listen everyone, I admire and wish I have your dedication to the teachings of Christ about kindness. What I do not understand is why you reject Christ and denigrate his followers? Become Christians and do better than us.
 

petosiris

Banned
That's self-fulfilling prophecy regarding the Tribulation, with no assurance of a Second Coming to follow. That's deluded, illogical thinking. A true prophecy can neither be hastened nor delayed.

You clearly have no knowledge of Biblical prophecy that allows for hastening and sometimes even complete change in the case of repentance - see Jonah 3.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Listen everyone, I admire and wish I have your dedication to the teachings of Christ about kindness. What I do not understand is why you reject Christ and denigrate his followers? Become Christians and do better than us.

The Book of Revelation has a lot to do with said rejection. The Church itself had misgivings about including it in the New Testament.
 

petosiris

Banned
The Book of Revelation has a lot to do with said rejection. The Church itself had misgivings about including it in the New Testament.

Here is my theory. The enemy of truth wants people to reject the Son of God. However, he knows that he can't deceive as many people by simply scoffing at his sinless life (note that some do), so he points to us - see these Christians continue to fall in sin, what is then the point of following their Lord. A good lie always includes some truth to it, in the same way that poison is often unseen in food.
 

david starling

Well-known member
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
How bad are things going to get, according to Revelation?
They're going to get SO bad, the Believers will be evacuated, leaving all the non-Believers to suffer. That just seems somehow "unChristian".

ds, I suggest you to read De Errore Profanarum Religionum chapter 8 if you are not very familiar with the Holy Scripture. Then your logic could relate with the former.

https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/89943
 
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