Bloody Mary and Lilith one and the same?

Yes, I put Bloody Mary under celebrity astrology. A demon can be a celebrity, can't she?
So did any of you play Bloody Mary when you were a kid? You know where you say her name so many times in front of a mirror and then she is supposed to come out of the mirror and get you. Ok, do you remember the version where you held up a babydoll and spun in circles saying "Bloody Mary I have your baby. Come and get it."? You would also write her name in red three times backward on the mirror. There is many versions of this game, I might as well call it what it is, a ritual to summon a demoness.
Well the story goes that this demon is based on Mary Queen of Scotts. She was either a Catholic or Protestant, I can't remember which, who really enjoyed killing people who were not Catholic/Protestant ( the one that she wasn't a member of) You'll have to look that up. I can't remember her religion off of the top of my head. So the story goes, but doesn't it sound a heck of a lot more like Lilith with that "I've got your baby. Come and get it." part? Maybe Bloody Mary is really a story about Lilith. Apparently the jews took Lilith pretty seriously. Maybe Lilith really is a demon. Kind of spooky, huh? Now, I totally relate to the archetype of Lilith as a woman who was betrayed for not giving up her personal power, but how do we know that there isn't a real demon that ties into all of this. The greeks and the romans worshiped venus and mars and the gang as real gods. I have prayed to saturn before to help me work with the energy it is circulating in my life.
When I was a child, I would talk to this lady that lived in the mirror. She scared me, but I figured that if I made friends with her she wouldn't hurt me. How do I know that wasn't lilith or some demon in the mirror? To this day I get creeped out by mirrors in bathrooms if I think about it too much. At one point when I was a child I thought that Bloody Mary was stalking me. I would see her face in the clouds and I was afraid that she would use any shiny surface as a portal to reach out to get me. I quit taking baths and was really scared. Yes, I'm bathing again these days! Then years layter a guy that I knew, that was into occult studies, told me that Lilith wanted me and planned on posessing my first born child. I didn't even know who lilith was at the time. Now I don't think that my first child will be possesed by a demon or anything, but there is some kind of odd synchronicity to it all. Are Bloody Mary and Lilith one and the same? Could Lilith truely be a demon. I'm going to answer that last one for myself. Yes, there probally is demon that goes by the name Lilith. What do you think?

[contained no astrological interpretation so moved to General Chat forum - Moderator]

That is some really crazy stuff you are talking about I like it all, I think these kinds of topics should be spoken out more, Im sure people do think about these things, if they are into the mysterious.
As far as lillith goes, oh well there's no doubt in my mind that there are evil powers out there that are unseen and we have no control over which way the wind blows, for good or for bad. I feel like we're being tested or rather used in the Creator's favor- but the free will part is a mixed blessing if you ask me. But I cannot say for sure if lillith is a demon but i do remember bloody mary as a child, my childhood friends sure spooked me out! But I am **** sure that demons have names just as Archangels have names, like Gabriel, Rapael, etc. And I am so sure that God does have his helpers carving out his will, just look at us, we are also an example.
You know what might interest you, is the whole exorcism field that Catholics know about. For some reason, they say that if you speak of Jesus's name in defiance of demonic spirits they will submit to it. Just something to throw at ya. Speaking of Jesus, I am so confused about whether to believe in his divinity, because I grew up in a Catholic family and still am in that environment but I really identify with Judaism.
I wonder is truth for one person really truth for all?
Interesting subject nonetheless...

Hi Lillybelle,

Maybe Bloody Mary is really a story about Lilith. Apparently the jews took Lilith pretty seriously. Maybe Lilith really is a demon.

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You used the exact word regarding Lilith....STORY. There is a big difference between proven fact and literary fiction. The very ancient stories upon which belief and faith is based were written by male scribes who may or may not have been celibate, let alone understood the uncontrollable unconscious desires of the physical body which, today, we still have no total answer for.
It's my personal idea that 'Lilith' arose as a means of 'blaming' an outer force for these uncontrollable unconscious desires.

a guy that I knew, that was into occult studies, told me that Lilith wanted me and planned on posessing my first born child. I didn't even know who lilith was at the time. Now I don't think that my first child will be possesed by a demon or anything, but there is some kind of odd synchronicity to it all. Are Bloody Mary and Lilith one and the same? Could Lilith truely be a demon. I'm going to answer that last one for myself. Yes, there probally is demon that goes by the name Lilith. What do you think?

Click to expand...

Yes; that person would have been speaking of the myth of Lilith as per early religious teachings. Lilith, in the portrayal of a demon, seems to be very strong in Judaism. My study of the role of Black Moon Lilith in astrology has found many 'victims' within the jewish community who have had trouble per-scribing to the ancient rites and rules of the faith and are, or feel, 'outcast' as a result because they are unable to conform to its teachings.

A person under the negative energy influence of Lilith appears to be one who is not strong enough in one's Self (God? = Sun) to overcome the power of suggestion within themselves, or which is implanted within them by others who are powerfully stronger than they. One's thoughts and feelings can be so influenced that they take on a life of their own, so to speak, that bears no resemblance to reality. These thoughts and feelings become 'the demons that haunt us' until we are strong enough to see them for what they are; figments of our imagination/fantasy that are NOTHING IN FORM.

The positive energy of Lilith appears to concur with that first nature gut instinct that guides us. It is instinct that was (and still is) suppressed in favour of physical matter proof, yet it's amazing how many charts show a positive aspect of Lilith to a planet through which acting upon one's inner instinct enabled something tangible to arise.

Maybe I'm fortunate in not believing in demons because I was not brought up within a strictly cultural/religious context of right/wrong, good/evil, rather than morality, and have also learned not to be influenced strictly by what others tell me I should believe. I have a strong Earth/Air element in me with water as my inferiour element, which probably helps. I do, however, believe that there are many whose minds and feelings do not or cannot conform to what is considered 'accepted civilised behaviour' and are labelled 'evil'.

F.

Hi Frisiangal,

I know Im butting in here ,but I'd just like to say that of course religion gets a bad rap, especially with fanatics and bigots, its a historical name with baggage. But even if I had the greatest faith in myself to not believe in "stories" and demons, good/evil, well than I'd still be searching for meaning. I think religion brings us good as well as the bad. Humans are the only species that are apt to search for meaning. And i beg to differ with some of your points even though they were not directed at me. I really do think there is such things as evil. And I dont let people like you tell me otherwise. And i dont let that run my life either but I just know its out there. Just look at serial killers, they had the worst inclination known to man, to murder. I think that is some evil ****. I've had quite a few experiences that are quite unexplainable. I cannot explain why my mother was told by an unknown messanger in a precognitive dream to not worry over my older sister but to worry about me instead, so that she would anticipate what was coming: that I was about to be admitted to a hospital three weeks later because of persistent drug abuse that mom didnt even know about. Now someone has got to tell me why my great-grandmother was able to regain strength in her right arm after her daughter prayed she can move it, she almost suffered a stroke and it might have been faith but its the greatest thing out there to me. No one cannot tell me there is no such thing in unseen powers or what not cause I made up my mind I believe it. But I dont want to dwell on it either because thats just not life.
I do admire you for believing in what you believe, which sounds like you are strong, I wish I had more faith in myself but it personally helps to know that even if I cant take care of myself the best that i can, there is a Creator out there. And though Im not happy at times with the way my life has turned out or to what extent i find joy, you know i really have no say, can clay say to its potter maker, why did you make me? No it really has no choice. We are like that clay, we get turned by the wind or circumstances in life, but when we dwell on the positive we just live to the fullest.

I have Lillith Cancer Conj. Asc. with Jupiter Cap\Moon Sag opposing from the 7th Cusp.Mars in the 10th T-Square these points.

I really don't know what to make of it.The only other chart that has Lillith on the Asc. is Elanor Roosevelt that I can think of.

Maybe there is a humanity and subconscience awareness of the under privledged that can be applied to this point. I know I get a deeper sensitivity to larger issues and deplore others that rant about how other people's plights around the world with a laugh now.

Evil is so pervasive in the world today ,but they cast other names to it.

Anyway just thought I'd add ass this is an elusive point still to me.

Sag Moon, I like that last line! Yeah, add some ass girl!

Hey Frisiangal, I was wondering when you were going to get on this thread considering that Lilith seems to be one of your favorite astro subjects.
Quote: A person under the negative energy influence of Lilith appears to be one who is not strong enough in one's Self (God? = Sun) to overcome the power of suggestion within themselves, or which is implanted within them by others who are powerfully stronger than they. One's thoughts and feelings can be so influenced that they take on a life of their own, so to speak, that bears no resemblance to reality. These thoughts and feelings become 'the demons that haunt us' until we are strong enough to see them for what they are; figments of our imagination/fantasy that are NOTHING IN FORM. Quote
I firmly believe that there is more to this reality than the physical tangible world. People who believe or know that demons or angels etc. exist are not afflicted with some sort of weakness or lacking in connection with god. They just know some things, that's all. If you believe that I'm weak or lacking a strong connection to god for believing in the supernatural, that's fine. Your just setting me free and putting yourself in a box. Here's the thing. If you don't believe in spirits, that's fine, and not very limiting in and of itself. But when you take it to the next level, and try to find things wrong with people who don't have the same views as you, then you are laying the bricks of your mental prison. I've noticed that when people make assumptions about the way I view the world, and I'm able to look those assumptions in the eye see them for what they are, and still hold true to my beliefs it sets me free. That's from one mercury in taurus to another.
I also have a lot of courage for believing in the supernatural in the face of the sterile, conventional it's a figment of your imagination mode of thinking. I refuse to tell the socially acceptable time worn story of being. I also feel fortunate for the spiritual upbringing that I received which did include the acknowledgment that there are evil spirits. I do think the way you view Lilith in astrological terms has a lot of value and meaning (Heck yeah she needed to say no to always being on the bottom). I also think it is shallow of astrologers to take certain ideas from a culture modify them to a western point of view and then leave out the parts of the story that they feel is intellectually beneath them. For those of us who do believe demons exist the story of Lilith offers food for thought. On one hand she is a champion in the astrological world, on the other hand she might be a demon. Of course, I still wonder whether the story of Bloody Mary is an influence from hebrew culture.

There are religion's that people follow in the world and if you believe in them then there is the supernatural aspect we caan accept.

A few yrs. ago not many followed any o these asteroid bodies along with these other points. Having a talent to see what they do in the chart is just that.

I do have dream occur that are more than just unconscience illusions. I have tried to figure that out. Do not know how Lillith would figure into that.

And the Ass comment was meant to be (as). Glad you got off on the mistake!

I seem to have offended in the way my written word has been read, whereas I was attempting to place an alternative perspective regarding what suggestion can do regarding Lilith and evil spirits. Lillybelle did seem concerned by its supposed negative power. I was not implying that faith in a Creator or the Super-Natural was hogwash, but I do consider there to be various ways of believing in and interpretting both.

It's true that I live in a finite world. It does NOT mean that I consider life to have no meaning. I'm a 9th house Taurus Sun and Virgo Asc. I get my proof through fact! Astrological symbolism and its meaning in one's life has in itself shown me that there is more between heaven and earth than air and the natural forces that make life on Earth physically possible. I have also undergone unexplainable situations that my simple mind has been unable to fathom but to which science can provide some kind of an answer that I have difficulty accepting as the only one.

when you take it to the next level, and try to find things wrong with people who don't have the same views as you, then you are laying the bricks of your mental prison.

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That works both ways; I could say the same.

I was wondering when you were going to get on this thread considering that Lilith seems to be one of your favorite astro subjects

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.

This in itself was due to a deep mystical experience I underwent following the solar eclipse on my 12th house Jupiter, immediately followed by transiting Black Moon Lilith crossing my I.C. and transiting Pluto opposing Uranus-MC. I have a close Uranus-BML-Asc. square. That same week someone sent me an article referring to Black Moon Lilith, whom I had never heard of before. The content of that article released me from years of inner torment and became the incentive and inspiration to study this calculated point from its astronomical/astrological AND feminine perspective in preference to the Lilith myth. Other people make studies of the 12th house, serial killer charts, planetary cycles, eclipses etc.etc.. My study is no different to theirs other than the subject material.
Pluto does not aspect my BML, so I can't even blame it upon an obsession.

I stress that no bigotry and prejudice was attached to my last message. I may have done better not to respond to the thread, but the dye is cast
now.

F.

[

Then years layter a guy that I knew, that was into occult studies, told me that Lilith wanted me and planned on posessing my first born child.

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Do you know how incredibly injurous it can be to a child to have this sort of rubbish connected to their name. I hope you have kept this quiet in your family. Friesiangirl has got it right when she connects the negative influences of Lilith to the treacherous self-deluding depths of the unconscious and not the real existence of demons. The only evil that exist in the world is where good/spirit/ God /consciousness is not present. Those who passively let their minds be led by something that is not out there, a mind at large free to be taken over by it's own stupid ideas and ramblings. Free to do evil acts, there are numerous examples. There are no demons or anything of the sort. No evil except ignorance. You get what you look for, that's the power of the mind.

Cheers

What fascinating thought on good vs. evil displayed here. Yes, Lilith has been the vessel for all the fears and woes of man. Well, part of it was pushed off on Eve, but that's another story. I've confronted the issue very intimately of good vs. evil during my Uranus opposition across the mental health axis. I was fortunate enough to have Pluto transit my Scorpio Moon in the 4th at the same time, so believe me, I reached to the depths. I'm sure Lilith is connected with the blood mysteries, as is Ceres, so Bloody Mary was the personification of a misapplied Lilith.

As for demons; all disease, bacteria gone out of control, etc has been demonized in history. When Jesus cast out demons he was restoring balance back in the body to heal them. It was said if they didn't replace that empty, clean house with the right stuff, even worse demons would enter the house. That is like taking an antibiotic without taking asodopholis or eating yogurt to replenish the healthy bacteria needed in the colon. I have come to the conclusion after over half a century (hey, does that make me old ) that evil is simply a perception. Yes, murder or rape is an evil act but the same spirit lives in both me and the murderer. If the force that created all that exists is love then anything not of love that lives is simply love twisted, distorted, turned upside down and backwards. Even the word evil is live, backwards.

Part of my article is still in progress, a very intimate story about the blood mysteries still to come but I have a 3 page spread on Lilith at my site if you'd like visit.

I have noticed its true that when there i a great difference between mean and true Lilith, Lunar apogee, her energy has more of a demon quality, it's harder for the person to access their true desire and power with and contained in love. My guess is that Adam (name meaning to show blood) had them quite far apart, so far he and his offspring demonized her.

Seeing that you have insight to this point AQ please tell me what it being at 1Deg. Cancer Exact Conjunct my Asc. would mean?

It is a piviot point to everything in my chart.

Seeing that it haas many negative connotations attached to it and is tied to the unconscience I have to wonder what that entails?

The only other chart I can remember seeing it at the point where it is at like in my chart is Elanor Roosevelt. I think that might have played into her being ,for lack of a better description,betrayed in her marriage to FDR.

TIA

Having Lilith right in your face, so to speak could endow you with a very sensual and powerful persona that can be scary to some. If Elenor R. experienced betrayal, I think it was more due to her having issues with trust, especially trust in herself and her own power. Sometimes there may be lessons to learn about ownership in relationship. I know of a couple that decided to try an open relationship, the idea of the husband and agreed to by the wife who had married very young. It went fine until the wife mentioned actually caring about the person she had been having sex with. The husband immediately felt threatened and put an end to it, at least openly. Here, there was a willingness to share the body but not the emotions. He claimed ownership over her in this area. I can't know Elenor's intimate personal life but perhaps she needed to learn that she doesn't own her husband AND that she is powerful enough when she is being her true divine self, that no man could or would ever betray her. She could also have been learning about unconditional love, that of Cancer and Pisces, even Scorpio. This love forgives and realizes it is a betrayal of their word to each other, maybe even a betrayal of her ego, but not of her person. She can place limits on the behaviour she will tolerate but still love and forgive the wrong doing when the partner is in agreement. If he isn't, then she will either have to redefine what love for her is or move on. As I drove to an errand today I drove by a neighbors, seeing the husband and wife standing in the yard together. A couple of years ago he was plastered all over the news because he was on the school board and had just been arrested for solisiting a prostitute. Imagine the humiliation his wife must have felt. Yet he is an upstanding citizen and was always the one to help at his children's school. He was forced to resign his position but his wife forgave, obviously, or perhaps she didn't feel betrayed in the first place, I don't know. When ever I hear the words, "he/she cheated on me", the 1st thing that comes into my mind is why do they think of it as doing something to them? The sex they had was with someone else and I'm sure was not intended to hurt that person. What it really comes down to is keeping their word, if they were both on the same page there, and being in agreement that they would not have sex with anyone else. Would there be the same reaction if they didn't keep their word on anything else?

Lilith in the 1st could exude feminine power, deep mystery, the great mother goddess. Cancer can hide if that power is overwhelming, withdrawing into her shell. It's ok to do that when appropriate but to repress that energy is not wise. Have you ever had anyone refer to you as a powerful person in any way. If the feminine power is threatening to anyone they may try to repress it through emotional blackmail. For example, if you were a nursing mother in the mall or other public place and your child needed to nurse (Cancer, mother's milk), if your partner or anyone else in the picture wasn't comfortable with the power of the feminine, they may try to shame you or tell you it's not appropriate to nurse in public. My ex mother in law excused me to her bedroom when we were there for family gatherings so I spent most of the time alone, listening to conversation I couldn't join in. Needless to say, as I became more comfortable with my own power, I did it any way, graciously, with a small receiving blanket of course.

If your Lilith is 1* she would still be considered at the Aries point which should bring that energy out into the public eye? How have you experienced this so far? The first thought that comes to mind is something concerning the breasts.

My Lilith's aren't as prominant as yours, but still very powerful. Both true and mean apogee and asteroid are between 8 and 10 Scorpio close to the cusp in the 4th house. So they all oppose my 10th. I was fired because I made a sexual harrassment complaint at a machine shop I worked at too. At the next shop I went to, they knew why I was fired, and guess what? They had hard core **** in their tool boxes and pin up girls plastered all over the walls. Not completely nude on the walls but in bras and panties, or less. My reaction? I just teased them asking them why they couldn't handle 8 hours without it.

I am a male so I cannot relate to that part of what you said ,not as much as you could of course,but I do believe that people feel threatened for some reason of my personality. They may feel that I think I am better than them which is not so,but they feel threatened and feel they should strike first and I had no issues in my mind against them .

Another emotion I have been told about is jealousy which I cannot understand. It is happening at present with a neighbor ,but he is psychotic anyways. Another girl told me a friend that she said was jealous and I have found it in others.

Power is not something I hope for.

I was wondering about the unconscious thought. It might be a sensitivty thing also as I can feel empathy for those less fortunate then myself. E.Roosevelt I had that quality in her nature and championed many social changes for the plight of the less fortunate.

The highest form of serving is to make sacrifice and that might be the expression also. Although I did not want to. I have done that for love once. Long story,but I knew I was surrounded by false friends. I had to let go because I saw the situation and how it would unfold. It went exactly the way I saw it would and it was in no way a self fulfilling prophesy.

So that is what I was wondering and I see your point of view well enough to shed light on it.

I am LG btw if you did not remember my name here. You have been missed at Bob Marks site I saw reccently.

You have done etensive research in many parts of the pie that I have only touched. Good for you and I am sure you shall get recgonised for it!

You never did give me your chart info which I wish you'd send!

Regards,Larry

Sag Moon said:

Seeing that you have insight to this point AQ please tell me what it being at 1Deg. Cancer Exact Conjunct my Asc. would mean?

It is a piviot point to everything in my chart.

Seeing that it haas many negative connotations attached to it and is tied to the unconscience I have to wonder what that entails?

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Hi,
If I might add 2 cents to what Aq. Ess. has already said.

BML, as a point between Earth and Moon, appears to be indicative of where what one feels inside does not outwardly manifest in its own right. It has need of an aspect to a planet to bring it to the surface.

From my own study of MEAN BML, and already said many times, its position in Cancer is showing itself to become a classic for turning off or away from everything Cancer stands for.....outer expression of feeling. There is a lack of 'bonding'. In harsh aspects to the Moon, the 'non', 'un', 'mis', 'dis' or lack of nurturing relationship with the natural mother can create such negative inner feelings regarding 'bonding' that the longing to need and feel needed is shunned as a means of survival. In general terms BML sems to have connotations with 'regrets' regarding that which never physically existed and/or manifested in form, according to the characteristic of the sign it is in.

BML works at its best on the inner level. It has shown itself to represent the natural hidden feminine nature; 'feminine' meaning feeling and not necessarily female. From your own description, you appear to have Mars in the 10th house either in the Scorpio decanate of Pisces OR in Aries-Aries. Depending upon whether you're a 'gentle emotional man' or 'a man's man' will be suggestive of how BML in Cancer will work within you. You may have difficulty with either sex because each sees a side of you that they may feel is 'not natural in a man', although it is a perfectly natural trait to you.

The wonder of BML in Cancer appears to be in the ability of those with it to have genuine ' gut instinctual power' that connects them to what by many is considered extinct and does not work. BML in Cancer is very strong with the creation of images, true.... or false which are suggestive of 'the demons we live with'! You could possess a natural knowledge (Jupiter) regarding ancient rituals (Capricorn) through which you can act as 'guide' for others (7th house). It may be for this reason that there is a need for you to 'disconnect from personal feeling' in order to reach inwards towards this natural trait that then enables you to be totally objective. Or you might use this instinct on an everyday level as teacher or practitioner with the innate understanding of knoweldge from which you are able to create or provide a 'form'.

F.

Oh, Hi, Larry. Yes, someone has gotten me over my head in financial research, data, data and more data. You know how that goes, I'm sure LOL. Knowing you're male helps a lot. It's hard with all the aliases to know. In this case if you have intigrated the feminine in that masculine body, it can bring the reactions you mentioned. My husband is quite masculine/feminine balanced and I have seen the same reaction. This only happens when he is not comfortable with that power, though. Your key words, " Power is not something I hope for" can be changed to, "I am a channel for the power of reception". Aren't you one of my void Moon friends? You haven't addressed this issue yet . Your chart dissapeared from my database. I have your mother and prenatal eclipse but not you. See how Lilith fits into the eclipse and void chart. Also know that the right kind of sacrifice is painless. It doesn't take away from your true needs and doesn't take away their need to do for themselves when possible.

Water is a powerful force. As an iceburg, the greatest power and force lies beneath the surface which is where Lilith often dwells. Water seeks its own level. That's called stasis, isn't it? Water has an unconditional cycle of changing forms but constantly remaining the same in quantity. The Moon and Cancer is our power to receive. But just as the rain falls on earth and is received, it must also evaporated to complete the cycle. I've see some of what you mentioned, recently on the NT site, just out of the blue, and I think was out of line. Take note of when and where this reaction happens in your life. Then look at what might really be at the bottom of it. Lilith has a way of exposing what other's have repressed or denied also. Adam put himself as king and ruler over Lilith when he was no better than her. He wined and complained until God gave him a more submissive woman and then sent angels out to harrass her. But God in his wisdom, knew that her children would be replaced a thousand fold (daylilies) and gave her the sacred and honored task of guarding over babies until they got through their crisis period. For a male it was the 7th day when their Vitimin K level wa high enough to handel the horrible circumcision and not bleed to death. Remember she dwells by the Red Sea. For baby girls, If I recall correctly it was until the mother had completed her time of cleansing after childbirth and was considered ritually clean.

Now take this and apply it to the complete person, masculine and feminine. The 7th day would represent the personal self, fully created and ready for rest. The 30th day would represent that soul, cleansed and fit to serve humanity not yet finished with their creation. Now apply this to your natal Moon, which I've mentioned via email and you'll start to put the pieces together. This is very important! You are only confirming and extending my findings on natal Void and Lilith too.

I thought you had my data but here it is. Sept. 4, 1954, 4:10 am EST, Kalamazoo, MI asc 17:13 Leo, but the prenatal epoch seems to want to put it at 17:08 which is a few second earlier. I was born with number 8 missing, but maybe it's here? There is a link at the bottom of all my posts that takes you to my chart also. I'll get on over to Bob Mark's site. Thanks.

Frisiangal said:

...There is a lack of 'bonding'. In harsh aspects to the Moon, the 'non', 'un', 'mis', 'dis' or lack of nurturing relationship with the natural mother can create such negative inner feelings regarding 'bonding' that the longing to need and feel needed is shunned as a means of survival. In general terms BML sems to have connotations with 'regrets' regarding that which never physically existed and/or manifested in form, according to the characteristic of the sign it is in...

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Yes, very good Fisiangal. This feels a whole lot like a void Moon as it also comes with a lack of bonding or different realtionship with mother. Although, with my void, I don't shun nurturing, just don't feel the need for others to do it for me in order to survive. I have felt sadness that my mom couldn't be that kind of mom, though. I think I could easily be her child without harm because I didn't need that from her.

Frisiangal said:

...The wonder of BML in Cancer appears to be in the ability of those with it to have genuine ' gut instinctual power' that connects them to what by many is considered extinct and does not work. BML in Cancer is very strong with the creation of images, true.... or false which are suggestive of 'the demons we live with'! You could possess a natural knowledge (Jupiter) regarding ancient rituals (Capricorn) through which you can act as 'guide' for others (7th house). It may be for this reason that there is a need for you to 'disconnect from personal feeling' in order to reach inwards towards this natural trait that then enables you to be totally objective...

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Also very good. This reminds me that water is a very good reflector, where we can see an image. But that image is reversed. A person with Lilith in water could mirror or be the projection of othe's repressed instincts. A person could look at them, see themselves backwards and project that onto the Lilith holder. If so, the reaction coming from others could very well give insight as to where their love got skewed, twisted within them, the one projecting their image onto us. Hmmm I have clearly experienced that with my Liliths in Scorpio.

Good stuff,
Connie

Thank you both for the supurb essay’s as I have been trying to findout where this point fits in with myself since hearing about it. Generic descriptions have not helped much so it’s been baffling.

These newer points like the uranians are so new only an occultist can be in touch with their energies I have thought.

I shall keep the thread in My CHART file.

AQ-Your asc. is the same as my Uranus. I know the Sabian Symbol well and it's fitting for you.

My chart has Aries-Aries BTW.
5\13\60 NYC 8:12am 2Can Asc.

You're welcome. Here's a little more Lilith mystery for you to ponder. Did you know while you have mean BML at the AP, true BML is at 12Gem00 with Eq Asc. right behind at 11Gem53. This feels like the two faces of Eve. I'll just bet you are an angel in disquise. Since you have Gem/Sag intercepted, I'm quite sure you have, perhaps unkowingly, played out Lilith themes for people in your life, probably within group karma issues. I say unknowingly because you are just starting to discover Lilith, she lies, in her true form, in your 12th, and with a larger difference between true and mean, how things seem aren't usually what they really are. Where she seems to lie may be a lie and what is reality is is realty, if you get my drift. Did you know that in Hebrew, the word prounced who is me, he is she and me is who? Yes, that's right. I'll bet all of those poor kids labeled ADD and all those other aleph-bayet labels are really speaking in tongues and the rest of us are the ones that are lacking, unable to combine language so creatively Now to decifer which language my sweetie is speaking.

As for your many faces of Lilith, Jacobson's hypothetical version is at 21 Scorpio. The asteroid Lilith is at 13Pisces26 square true BML with her apehelion conjunct my Moon in late Scorpio. Fascinating! You can find the Waltemath version of Jacobson's at the astro.com site if you're interested. I've seen the Jacobson form showing up in the financial research I've been doing very often so there must be something there.

I hope you'll give your opinion on wether or not my interception opinion fits or not. With you though, you may need to incorporate the void Moon idea with the possibility that the interception is a tool to attract the resources you need for your group purpose. You know how it is when mamma is sleeping, we have to look elsewhere for our needs to be met.

AQ I have read your theory on Intercepts,but do not now where it is..Please place link to it or mail it to me so I can read it again and give an opinion as to how it apply's to me.

I use Koch House's so my intercepts there are in Taurus. That means that after I analyse your theory I shall find what House system works best for NY.

I say that because you have to use a different system where Latitudes are concerned as you know.

You are way ahead of me in the science of math in this. I am primarily intune to the planet arrangements.