Age of Aquarius May Not Be So Great

piercethevale said:

To clarify. I believe that the quadruplicities [Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable], as like the Sabian Symbols, are tied to the Tropical Zodiac, that they are bound to the Seasons and have nothing to do with the Sidereal. The Spring equinox is a Cardinal event, that moment when the length the waxing of the hours of Sunlight then start to wane, the culmination of the Mutable, etc.
Regardless of what Sign and degree of that Sign is at the moment of the Spring Equinox, the Sabian symbol associated with the first degree of Aries is always in effect. The same goes for the quadruplicities.

[Gee, if there are only three of them then why are they called the quadruplicities? Wait for it, someone will eventually ask that question. ]

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12 zodiacal sign divided by 4 = 3

piercethevale said:

To clarify. I believe that the quadruplicities [Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable], as like the Sabian Symbols, are tied to the Tropical Zodiac, that they are bound to the Seasons and have nothing to do with the Sidereal. The Spring equinox is a Cardinal event, that moment when the length the waxing of the hours of Sunlight then start to wane, the culmination of the Mutable, etc.
Regardless of what Sign and degree of that Sign is at the moment of the Spring Equinox, the Sabian symbol associated with the first degree of Aries is always in effect. The same goes for the quadruplicities.

[Gee, if there are only three of them then why are they called the quadruplicities? Wait for it, someone will eventually ask that question. ]

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I have no problem with tropical and sidereal sharing both modalities and imagery.

I consider them both valid, each with its own "angle of view".

Even Heliocentric astrology has connections to sign rulership in Geocentric coordinates.

It's the Age Window method that changes the paradigm. Instead of these wars, including this Russian invasion, and WW I and WW II, signalling the beginning of the Age of Aquarius--as many would have it--it's really about the assertive background Age of Aries, ruled by Mars, coming to an extremely violent conclusion.

With assertive Aquarius as the new forefront Age-sign, and receptive Pisces moving into background Age status once Aries is no longer included in the Age Window, war as we've known it for more than 4,000 years will become a thing of the Past.

Opal said:

12 zodiacal sign divided by 4 = 3

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You've got it backwards as to what the explanation is.

There are four elements, each element can potentially experience any of the three potential stages of existence. Cardinal, fixed, or mutable. In any age there are four Cardinal elements, four fixed, and four mutable.

As the equation we are trying to construct is to explain the question, i.e. "how do 3 potentialities of the 12 signs = quadruplicities?", [Notice that at no time was the number 4 brought up, only the term, "quadruplicities". Numbers are arithmetical values. All numbers that are arithmetical values are comprised of integers. the word quadruplicity is not comprised of integers and thus cannot be an arithmetical value, and as it is not an arithmetical value it cannot be used in an equation.] The 12 Signs are to be divided by the 3 potentialities. Hence, and thus, 12/3 = 4. Then the question of "what are those four representing?" arises.

The equation you provided is in explanation of the term "Triplicities".

david starling said:

I have no problem with tropical and sidereal sharing both modalities and imagery.

I consider them both valid, each with its own "angle of view".

Even Heliocentric astrology has connections to sign rulership in Geocentric coordinates.

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I like that term "modality". I might start using that.

If you will please refer to my thread, "A Runic Explanation of the Zodiac".

There are three signs for each of the four elements. For example: There are three Fire Signs but each of the three is a different type of fire. There's electrical fire [Aries], combustible fire [Leo], and fire by friction [Sagittarius]. Each of those three types of fire can be in a state of being cardinal, fixed, or mutable. The same goes for the other three elements as well.

david starling said:

It's the Age Window method that changes the paradigm. Instead of these wars, including this Russian invasion, and WW I and WW II, signalling the beginning of the Age of Aquarius--as many would have it--it's really about the assertive background Age of Aries, ruled by Mars, coming to an extremely violent conclusion.

With assertive Aquarius as the new forefront Age-sign, and receptive Pisces moving into background Age status once Aries is no longer included in the Age Window, war as we've known it for more than 4,000 years will become a thing of the Past.

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See what you did there? r.e. "assertive Aquarius", Cardinal is "assertive", Fixed is not.

Aquarius is presently a Cardinal sign, [since 1936 according to Edgar Cayce...although the first spring Equinox in the Sign of Aquarius apparently began in '37]

As Mark stated in the initial post, "I've also read some who have said that a bad attitude for an Aquarian might be: "everyone should be free to be just like me." That doesn't sound like the rosy salvation plan described in most discussions on the subject. Personally, I think that Aquarius will bring us more of the same tyranny, plunder, and abuse. Actually, I think that it will intensify those terrible things in order to purge them..."

That's Adolph Hitler to a "T". What cause did Hitler have for purging Europe of the Jews?
Need a hint? It didn't have anything to do with their religious beliefs or that misguided notion that "They killed Jesus".
Henry Ford even funded the Nazis.

It was primarily about Economics.
Please, don't anybody get me wrong here and start accusing me of being prejudicial. You, David, know well that I've spoken of my past life incarnations and that I was a Jew in at least one lifetime that I know of, and probably more.

As f***ked up as it does sound, Hitler believed he was making the world a better place.
He did what he did for the betterment of his country and hoped that others would either see that too or eventually realize it. When I was a senior in high school and discussing that days history lesson in school with my mother, whom was about the most compassionate, caring, yet extremely intelligent, wise, and very erudite person I've ever known, stunned me stone cold when she said to me [the subject was W.W. II and the "ultimate solution"] "The Jews brought it upon themselves." When I asked Her what she was talking about, she replied, "They hoarded money and only spent it among their own kind. they were economically strangling Europe".

By the way, what do you think of the Rothschilds?

piercethevale said:

See what you did there? r.e. "assertive Aquarius", Cardinal is "assertive", Fixed is not.

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Fixed is assertive. They are steadfast in their beliefs, and will not accept other "thoughts" unless after due deliberation, they choose to change their minds, and they are very assertive about it.

piercethevale said:

See what you did there? r.e. "assertive Aquarius", Cardinal is "assertive", Fixed is not.

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Fixed stands its ground. But for Assertive I'm going with the Fire and Air elements.

Cardinal signs are innovative.

Opal said:

Fixed is assertive. They are steadfast in their beliefs, and will not accept other "thoughts" unless after due deliberation, they choose to change their minds, and they are very assertive about it.

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david starling said:

Fixed stands its ground. But for Assertive I'm going with the Fire and Air elements.

Cardinal signs are innovative.

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My brother got me into the study of Astrology back in August 1984. I've told this anecdote many times, about how our parents were avid students off the readings of Edgar Cayce, and how much our mother in particular was so against the practice of astrology as for what Edgar had said about it having become so corrupted a science. That my brother, whom had been laid off from work for about two years, had spent that time reading everything he could about astrology in a quest to find what hadn't been corrupted, and when i arrived at his door, unannounced, and stayed for nine months, convincing me on the first day by way of the Sabian Symbols and my natal position of Pluto, that he had indeed found something quite verace about it... and that I got an intensive introduction to what he had determined is in working order those following nine months.

We lived together, in his studio apartment, worked together, as we were both tradesmen and I got hired by a crew and got him to accept a position with the same contractor, worked out together ...as we were both quite dedicated powerlifters for years and being sibling rivals there was always a sense of competition between us, although He was more about that competition being the younger and a "middle child' at that... for those nine months. As brothers, sibling rivals, living in such close quarters, and rarely getting a break from one another, we did get on one anothers' nerves and when there was any disagreement, He would throw up his hands a exclaim out loud, "Earth Signs!!!" As for the reason I have natal Sun in Taurus. Tropical Zodiac Taurus, and with a Scorpio Asc. and an Aquarian Moon. Jupiter in Taurus, too, and the Moons Nodes in Leo and Aquarius [N].

Yet, by Sidereal rectification, I haven't a thing in any of the fixed Signs except for Mars in Taurus. [Astrological Parts withstanding]. By the Sidereal Zodiac, I have Pluto in Cancer, the Sun and Jupiter in Aries, the Moon and N. Node in Capricorn, and my Asc. in Libra. Saturn and Neptune conj. in Virgo, Uranus in Gemini, and Venus and Mercury in Pisces. My chart axis, however becomes set in Cardinal Signs by the "Traditional" definition.

You both know me well enough by now to have an opinion. I rarely, if ever, back down from my beliefs, Wilson has threatened me a few times, although it has been many years since, with expulsion for being too assertive. Though I have many Planets in "Mutable Signs" by "traditional beliefs", I don't think you, or anyone else, would say that I have a mutable personality, so that leaves us with stubborn or assertive.

Fixed Signs are stubborn, they don't "assert" anything unless they are pushed, but even then they don't try to beat their beliefs into others. the only thing they "assert" is that they won't change.

I have a Sidereal Mars, and when faced with aggression, i don't budge. In fact I've never backed down from anyone when physical threatened, no matter how big the opponent and I'm only 5' 8". However, I've never been aggressive physically. Intellectually at times, perhaps, but I know my limitations, as I'm not the "sharpest tool in the toolbox" in some areas and subjects. In math, mechanical reasoning, and spatial reason I score in the 98th percentile, in reading comprehension and verbal usage [speaking and writing], I score only in the 55th. Yet, I only took one year of high school algebra, a year of geometry, and only a half semester of college level trigonometry [without having took the second year of h.s algebra or any h.s. trig,, both prerequisites] and had a solid grade of 'A' [tops in the class] when I dropped out of that class in college, I never took any physical science classes [just biology in h.s., which I hated] and never took any classes in anything to do with mechanics or engineering. I was a Fine Arts major.

Yet, there are proclivities I have that aren't tested for in schools, that can only be determined from studying my natal chart, [Pluto conj. mid-haven, Uranus in 8th house trine my Asc., and a few other things I won't go into here] and there are times here at the forum when I feel like i would like to beat the sense of something into someone, but my upbringing as a Quaker, my years of study and practice of yoga and Vedic philosophy, from which I had a number of very spiritual, mystic, and esoteric experiences from that truly convinced me of the validity of which, keep me from that kind of behavior.
So, getting back to that "opinion" of yours... what am I, just stubborn, or aggressive?

I know... it's a tough call, as I can't even tell you what I am.

But, you both know, or you should... that you're not going to change my mind. I am "Gnostic" in all my approaches to everything. I have to know for myself and no one will change my mind. That can only be accomplished by myself. If you can't make an iron clad case, an irrefutable proof, you're not going to convince me otherwise... and that is best done in the form of "equations" or demonstrations... as i pointed out, reading is not my strong point. Equate it, demonstrate it, or forget about trying to convince me of anything other than what I already believe.

My biggest regret is that I'm also not very good at speaking or writing. It is my bane.

David, I meant to make the observation that you presented a belief that it is the "masculine" Signs that are assertive. That's a "Traditional" belief.
Once again, I refer you to that thread of mine about a Runic explanation of the Zodiac.

In that thread I give cause for an understanding that the Traditional belief that all masculine Signs are of "positive" polarity and why I believe that is a wrong assumption.

In that thread I explain why I believe the Signs of Gemini, Aries, and Aquarius are of "negative" polarity. It also presents why, I believe, the matter of ones sexuality is far more complex than even Sigmund Freud ever imagined.

piercethevale said:

David, I meant to make the observation that you presented a belief that it is the "masculine" Signs that are assertive. That's a "Traditional" belief.
Once again, I refer you to that thread of mine about a Runic explanation of the Zodiac.

In that thread I give cause for an understanding that the Traditional belief that all masculine Signs are of "positive" polarity and why I believe that is a wrong assumption.

In that thread I explain why I believe the Signs of Gemini, Aries, and Aquarius are of "negative" polarity. It also presents why, I believe, the matter of ones sexuality is far more complex than even Sigmund Freud ever imagined.

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We both have our Moons in tropical Aquarius.

david starling said:

We both have our Moons in tropical Aquarius.

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Thanks for sharing that.
Then you should be aware of how truly receptive you are emotionally?

As for my natal Moon it is Tropically in the 25th deg. of Aquarius, conj. my nadir, and the nadir is the "WHY" of my chart axis in a spiritual interpretation and the "HOW" in a mundane interpretation.

Which has the Sabian Symbol of [from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala"]

"AQUARIUS 25°: A BUTTERFLY WITH THE RIGHT WING MORE PERFECTLY FORMED.
KEYNOTE: The capacity to develop the rational and fully conscious aspect of the mind ahead of normal evolution.

What seems implied is a kind of mutation, and more specifically the special development of whatever is symbolized by the 'right side' of the organism. Here, however, the spiritual body (the butterfly) is what the Image represents. A strong process of conscious individualization is suggested, perhaps at the expense of the instinctual-emotional aspect of the personality (its 'left side').

This last symbol fittingly concludes this sixty-fifth sequence, which began with 'A disappointed woman . . .' The five-fold set deals with the management of human energies at the emotional level; here management means overcoming — this, on the basis of negative or ego-challenging experiences. This fifth symbol refers thus to the results of a TRANSMUTATION OF EMOTIONAL ENERGIES. "

Thus you can see that I've had to learn to deal with my emotions. Rather, actually, it's been a continuous lesson all my life.

piercethevale said:

Thanks for sharing that.
Then you should be aware of how truly receptive you are emotionally?

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Asc + Mercury conj Mars + Sun (trine Jupiter in Scorpio) are all in tropical Pisces.

Moon conj Venus in tropical Aquarius, trine Uran in Gemini.

The astrological Ages are my only connection to the Earth Element, since they're the planet Earth's transiting sign location in the zodiac, due to Earth's "wobble" and the "tilt" of Earth's axis.

IMO, the Ages aren't "beaming down" on us from the Heavens, they're affecting our charts internally, like all of the other placements. So, mundane occurrences during an Age are the aggregate effect of everyone having the same Age-sign in their natal charts, century after century, within about 1 degree from one Age generation to another. The Ages shape our shared version of reality.

Pierce, theoretically, using your assertive/receptive patterns, what would be the dynamics of an overlap of sidereal forefront Age of Aries with background Age of Taurus, using the Age Window model? Would they compete for dominance, or mesh well with each other?

In the West, that's the historical timeframe of the Greco-Roman civilizations prior to Christianity--lots of fighting and lots of supernatural visions and beliefs with a great deal of variation.

There should be some empirical, historical correlations we can examine to see if the empirical matches the theoretical.

The symbol for Mars mars has become the symbol for the male gender (erection included ). So, what if Aries is receptive, despite its being a Fire-sign, yet with assertive rulership? That would explain the "sheep" side of Aries, willing to go along with the flock.

Capricorn could easily be seen as assertive, despite its being of the Earth Element. Saturn is also assertive, so that would make an assertive Sign with an assertive Domicile-ruler.

Aquarius, at least as a Sun placement, does seem assertive though, as far as going its own way is concerned. So, for the Age Window model, that would make it forefront assertive with Pisces as background receptive. I'm not necessarily including gender, because a woman can be just as assertive as a man, and a man just as receptive as a woman.

Interesting that the first recorded version of a Moon deity, in the Western historical tradition, was a god, father of the Venusian goddess Inanna/Ishtar. But in the Greco-Roman pantheon, the Moon is always portrayed as female.

Well, thanks Pierce. You've convinced me to take a closer look at the blanket assumption that Fire/Air is always assertive, and Earth/Water always receptive.

The Aquarius Age as fixed will see a resolution of the fluid socio-political systems in Pisces and over centuries, unification as a world system.