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  #1  
Unread 06-09-2018, 04:45 AM
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Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFxWXbdqGIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7CjdJ1QyxI&t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoIZdEBf9Wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76frHHpoNFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyxWFWNROk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6adVQrSUAc

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Last edited by AppLeo; 06-09-2018 at 04:48 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 06-09-2018, 08:12 AM
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Noam Chomsky!
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Unread 06-09-2018, 09:10 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

But seriously, as an Individualist, I'm against Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Fascism, and Capitalism. They all subordinate the innate value of the Individual to the requirements of the particular economic system. If I had to pick one though, it would be Safety-net Capitalism with a democratically elected Government.
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Unread 06-09-2018, 04:42 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

David, you池e a leftist who likes high taxes.
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Unread 06-09-2018, 08:00 PM
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David, you’re a leftist who likes high taxes.
If you were fortunate enough to pay high taxes in the economic system I'm proposing, you'd be at least a multi-millionaire. Would it really be such a hardship to have only 2 yachts and 2 jet planes instead of 3 of each?
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Unread 06-09-2018, 08:14 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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If you were fortunate enough to pay high taxes in the economic system I'm proposing, you'd be at least a multi-millionaire. Would it really be such a hardship to have only 2 yachts and 2 jet planes instead of 3 of each?
Yes, it would because I知 not getting the yachts and planes I deserve.
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Unread 06-09-2018, 09:17 PM
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Yes, it would because I知 not getting the yachts and planes I deserve.
So, you're buying into the "Greed is Good" attitude?
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Unread 06-09-2018, 09:19 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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So, you're buying into the "Greed is Good" attitude?
No. I知 buying into the 的知 entitled to the sweat of my brow attitude.
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Unread 06-10-2018, 04:58 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

The wealthy do not sweat at least not from work. They make everyone else sweat.
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And the wild regrets and the bloody sweats, None knew so well as I. For he who lives more lives than one, More deaths than one must die. -- Oscar Wilde
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Unread 06-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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The wealthy do not sweat at least not from work. They make everyone else sweat.
I don稚 see what sweating has to do with anything lol
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Unread 06-13-2018, 05:17 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Here, a meme,

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Unread 06-13-2018, 05:18 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Another,

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Unread 06-13-2018, 06:58 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Capitalism killed millions of indigenous people in North America, took their land by force, and claims to be the only economic system that respects property rights!
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:16 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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Capitalism killed millions of indigenous people in North America, took their land by force, and claims to be the only economic system that respects property rights!
I don't believe this was ever official American policy. Explain, please.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:25 AM
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I don't believe this was ever official American policy. Explain, please.
It was the inevitable result of Capitalism, which has been the economic system here since the beginning of the 13 Colonies. When necessary, it was official policy as well, which is why Andrew Jackson is being removed from the $20 bill. Apparently, there is some guilt about it.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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It was the inevitable result of Capitalism, which has been the economic system here since the beginning of the 13 Colonies. When necessary, it was official policy as well, which is why Andrew Jackson is being removed from the $20 bill. Apparently, there is some guilt about it.
The Trail of Tears was part of the Indian Removal policy. Yes, it was awful. About 4000 people died. But removal, bad as it was, does not constitute genocide.

And with Trump in office, I doubt they'll be changing the picture on your money anytime soon. He idolises Jackson.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:37 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

The 2nd Amendment was enacted in large part to have a citizenry armed to defend the land they were stealing from the indigenous people.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:41 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
The Trail of Tears was part of the Indian Removal policy. Yes, it was awful. About 4000 people died. But removal, bad as it was, does not constitute genocide.

And with Trump in office, I doubt they'll be changing the picture on your money anytime soon. He idolises Jackson.
That's just it--it wasn't intentional genocide, it was the inevitable result of Capitalism. That was just one "incident".
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:48 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

And the hundred million deaths under communism in a very short span of history were???

I think the problem you've got is that you're vastly over-simplifying matters. Capitalism itself, not a bad thing. Human beings, however, are far from perfect.

The US has a social safety net, too, you know. Medicare, social security, disability payments, aid to single mothers, local welfare, all that. You guys pay taxes for it.

It's not a great social safety net, and dear God, I would not want to be the person to try to instate universal health care in America, just looking at the number of people who'd be put out of work plus a system with an economy considerably larger than that of, say, Russia. It's a mess. Doesn't mean someone smarter than me wouldn't be able to do it, though I don't envy them. And no, Obamacare doesn't count. Outrageous premiums, even more limited coverage than we have here, and fines for not opting in isn't the answer.

I find it's unwise to bet against the Americans. I have great faith in you guys.

Are you really unable to see any solutions that don't involve violence against the rich, or overthrowing the government? That's just a failure of imagination.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 07:49 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Trump should be on a $3 bill, and a wooden nickel!
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Unread 06-13-2018, 08:02 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
And the hundred million deaths under communism in a very short span of history were???

I think the problem you've got is that you're vastly over-simplifying matters. Capitalism itself, not a bad thing. Human beings, however, are far from perfect.

The US has a social safety net, too, you know. Medicare, social security, disability payments, aid to single mothers, local welfare, all that. You guys pay taxes for it.


Are you really unable to see any solutions that don't involve violence against the rich, or overthrowing the government? That's just a failure of imagination.
There are those who characterize taxing the very rich and their Corporations and off-shore accounts as "violence" , and the " Tyranny of the Majority " (which is somehow supposed to be worse than the current Tyranny of the Minority, for some reason).
If you want to argue that it's bad for the economy, fine. But it's not about the "Sanctity of private property" under Capitalism. This entire Capitalistic economy was based on taking land and resources by force. Forced labor as well, known as "Slavery" .
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Unread 06-13-2018, 08:12 AM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

And wealthy countries were the first to end slavery. It's still a big problem in Africa, though, and people in those countries aren't doing so great.

I think you probably believe a little bit in the 'sanctity of private property', though I'd call it a right (a legal fiction we all pretty much agree on), and not sanctity. In the US, the government has to have a compelling reason to comandeer your property, and if they do it, they have to pay you for it.

Rich people are not the problem. Large government isn't the answer. A lot of the problems in post-Stalinist Russia were as much logistics as ideology. You had a huge central bureaucracy making rules for everyone, with pretty much no knowledge of actual conditions in different parts of the country. The US Constitution tried to prevent that kind of thing happening in your country, and to a great degree succeeded. Though I have to agree with Reagan on those most scary words: I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

Why so much faith in government and none in individual people, David?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
There are those who characterize taxing the very rich and their Corporations and off-shore accounts as "violence" , and the " Tyranny of the Majority " (which is somehow supposed to be worse than the current Tyranny of the Minority, for some reason).
If you want to argue that it's bad for the economy, fine. But it's not about the "Sanctity of private property" under Capitalism. This entire Capitalistic economy was based on taking land and resources by force. Forced labor as well, known as "Slavery" .
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Unread 06-13-2018, 08:15 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Oh, given the Thread title, I should explain that I'm against Communism, Socialism and Marxism. I'm for a gradual, peaceful changeover to a new, as yet unknown, way of allocating material goods and services. I believe that this will happen inevitably, once Capitalism has obviously outlived its usefulness.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 08:31 AM
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Smile Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
And wealthy countries were the first to end slavery. It's still a big problem in Africa, though, and people in those countries aren't doing so great.

I think you probably believe a little bit in the 'sanctity of private property', though I'd call it a right (a legal fiction we all pretty much agree on), and not sanctity. In the US, the government has to have a compelling reason to comandeer your property, and if they do it, they have to pay you for it.

Rich people are not the problem. Large government isn't the answer. A lot of the problems in post-Stalinist Russia were as much logistics as ideology. You had a huge central bureaucracy making rules for everyone, with pretty much no knowledge of actual conditions in different parts of the country. The US Constitution tried to prevent that kind of thing happening in your country, and to a great degree succeeded. Though I have to agree with Reagan on those most scary words: I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

Why so much faith in government and none in individual people, David?
Finding illegal drugs on your property, even if you didn't know it was there, is considered a "compelling reason" for confiscation!
I'm a firm believer in private property rights, but I don't object to be taxed for it at a reasonable rate. Under Capitalism, we need rich people, and we need to tax them at a reasonable rate.
Those who think Reagan was right are perfectly willing to accept, and even ask for, Government assistance when it comes to disaster relief.
I'm putting ALL my faith in individual people to do what's right. The governments and Corporations can't change themselves. It's the INDIVIDUALS within them that have to change them. The bunch we have now want to keep them like they are, or make them even worse. But, that will change, just as the pendulum swings.
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Unread 06-13-2018, 08:40 PM
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Re: Anti-Communism/Socialism/Marxism Thread

For those that like Socialism, for whatever reason, some videos for you.

The Myth of the Socialist Scandinavian countries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY27TBAFqBE


How's Socialism Doing in Venezuela?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCIdm3cM6zQ


How Socialism Ruined My Country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhR9i5CGkA
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