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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 06-08-2018, 11:04 PM
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CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

Ive been reading Planetary sect by robert hand, the pdf you gave me a link to a little while ago.

I thought i understood it, but im now confused by something, ill give you an example, it won't allow me to copy/paste chart or txt, so ill have to explain the best i can.

You know what im referring to, as you left the link yesterday on another thread too, so you can refer back to it.

Referring to the chart on page 9, he says venus (starting on page 10) is in sect. But venus is a nocturnal planet in a night chart below the horizon, from what i thought i knew, venus should be above the horizon with the moon, so why is he saying venus is in sect here ? I don't get it, as venus in the chart is a nocturnal planet in a diurnal placement, so why is venus in sect ?

He goes on to say, venus is combust (yes) and in a diurnal sign (yes) i get this....but regarding "horizon" i don't.

He then goes on to say "mars a nocturnal planet is nocturnally placed"...well yes, mars is nocturnally placed, as its above the horizon with the moon, in a masculine sign and in the 10th house, so mars is indeed in hayz, i totally understand this.

So has he gone wrong with venus or am i understanding it wrongly ?

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Last edited by Chrysalis; 06-08-2018 at 11:42 PM.
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Unread 06-09-2018, 12:57 AM
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Re: CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

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Referring to the chart on page 9, he says venus (starting on page 10) is in sect. But venus is a nocturnal planet in a night chart below the horizon, from what i thought i knew, venus should be above the horizon with the moon, so why is he saying venus is in sect here ? I don't get it, as venus in the chart is a nocturnal planet in a diurnal placement, so why is venus in sect ?
He is using the Hellenistic definition of sect where the primary condition (and called sect) is simply determining whether the chart is by day or by night. If the Sun is below the horizon, then the modern Hellenistic astrologer would say that Venus is in sect. For the medieval sect, the horizon condition has to be true as well for a planet to be considered in sect, so the two conditions were taken equally. This is far from being the case in the Hellenistic tradition, where the horizon and season consideration appears much more rarely used (especially in practice).

Last edited by petosiris; 06-09-2018 at 01:06 AM.
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Unread 06-09-2018, 07:44 PM
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Re: CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

Nocturnal planets are in sect in a night chart no matter where they are located in the chart. Same for diurnal planets in a day chart. That would be the Hellenistic method. In the middle ages the Arabs added more complications such as being above the horizon and in an agreeable sign. That is where the in Hayz comes from. Later the Christian astrologers seem to have just neglected it all together because they thought it was entirely Arabic.
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Unread 06-10-2018, 05:15 AM
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Re: CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

Both the previous posters gave good explanations, but specifically to the example that's causing you confusion, there is a difference between "a nocturnally planet that is nocturnally placed" with "in sect".


When a planet is in sect, it's inherent sect placement agrees with the sect of the chart. Once the Sun is above horizon, the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn will automatically be in sect regardless of how they are positioned in the chart. Likewise with Moon, Venus and Mars when the Sun is below the horizon. Mercury is variable, as you are aware of. Pretty straightforward.


Nocturnally placed has to do with the positioning of the planet with regard to hemisphere - in this case, the planet is placed above the horizon in a night chart - hence nocturnally placed. In a day chart - the diurnal hemisphere is above the horizon, and the nocturnal is below. It is reversed in night charts.



So another example could be a night chart, with Venus in Aries below the horizon. This Venus is in sect as the chart is a night chart. But Venus is in a masculine and diurnally placed as Venus is below the horizon - and hence is in the hemisphere of the sun in a night chart.



In sect and nocturnally/diurnally placed are not the same thing, although both come under the same concept of planetary sect.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 02:27 PM
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Re: CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

Thanks for all your replies, they've been very helpful.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 11:04 PM
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Re: CT i need your help with sect by robert hand.

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Thanks for all your replies, they've been very helpful.
Ditto. Many thanks to all contributors to this thread.
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