Cusp and when

When do you consider the planet to be applying to the next cusp? A planet within 1 degree of the next cusp is already in the next house? What's your opinion about the Pluto of the chart i will link?

Any insight about the cusps would be appreciated, I find this to be very ambiguous in general

I'd be less concernded about where Pluto is and more concerned about how your ASC is at 0* Leo...

But to answer your question,

Stellium6th said:

When do you consider the planet to be applying to the next cusp? A planet within 1 degree of the next cusp is already in the next house? What's your opinion about the Pluto of the chart i will link?

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Anytime you are using a quadrant based house system (that is, something other than whole or equal signs), a planet within 5* applying by diurnal motion to the next house cusp is considered to be in that next house. So you have Pluto in the 5th. Hope that helps.

Thanks for your answer, Tsmall. The time is reliable. We could go into that where is the exact moment of birth, but that is another matter that won't ever be sorted out. So i think that rising should be right. Strangely enough when astrologers give a read, normally they ignore that rule. Do you follow the rule?

Stellium6th said:

Thanks for your answer, Tsmall. The time is reliable. We could go into that where is the exact moment of birth, but that is another matter that won't ever be sorted out. So i think that rising should be right. Strangely enough when astrologers give a read, normally they ignore that rule. Do you follow the rule?

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What rule? The cusp rule, or the holy shite, your ASC is at 0* of a sign rule?

Personally, most rules are ****...

It is fine if ‘rules’ like that are ambiguous. It does not really matter if that Pluto is in the 4th or the 5th. When speaking to the client one would discuss it ruling the 5th and being on the cusp of the 4th and 5th. And then in that discussion one could ask about the early childhood and family issues and see if the square to Saturn is connected to that or not. Or if it was more of a 5th house 'love' thing.

I think your Sun/Venus in Gemini and the strong trine to Saturn in Aquarius CRAVES these rules. That trio of air planets wants to fit everything into perfect order and concrete classifications—but the Pluto in the 4th/5th knows it cannot really be done. Astrology is not that cut and dry.

How would you discuss it, Katy? What's the difference there? Purely curiosity, I don't mean to annoy.

Is pluto in 5th house as dark as pluto in 4th house when it comes to childhood and family?

Stellium6th said:

How would you discuss it, Katy? What's the difference there? Purely curiosity, I don't mean to annoy.

Is pluto in 5th house as dark as pluto in 4th house when it comes to childhood and family?

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NO. Pluto in the 5th is much easier and much less dark. Pluto is angular in the 4th, and succedent in the 5th. It is better to have it in a fixed house, rather than an angular one, in my opinion.

You have Libra ruling the 4th, and Venus, the ruler of that 4th is pretty nicely aspected. It is not that great for Venus to be in Gemini, but it is not awful. And that trine to Saturn is stable and strong.

I would guess that maybe you had a nice, respectable, upstanding family but maybe a lot of the 'good feelings' were for show, and there was some hidden family dysfunction? But I don't see this Pluto placement as being the brutally intense situation that some signify. There is a square to Saturn. But it seems like more of a challenge from one's father to stay within the family clique or uphold the family name/reputation or something. I don't know. But we don't have to know all of the answers before the client arrives.

We can see the Saturn/Pluto square and can make a note to ask what that particular power struggle is about.

If it is a 4th house issue then it might be centered around painful memories concerning childhood/homelife/parents/emotional center and the client would
recognize that. If it was more of a 5th house issue then it might be about love relationships/creative pursuits/sports/hobbies and the challenge from Saturn would be about learning to prioritize, grow up and take care of business?

If the Pluto is right on the cusp then it can be a blend of the two issues. Maybe there were things from childhood that did not seem authentic, or real. And the native learned to gloss over the hidden deeper issues by playing sports, or games or gambling as a diversion?

Very interesting, I can see how the two can blend and be influenced therefore. In this case, I'm buying your last sentence, it relates well what happened. A breach corked with some tricks -sports, hobbies, creativity. And with the square it seems about relationship and/or inner circle. Thanks

Hi,
The 'cusp rule' is full of if's, but's and and's, especially regarding the outer planets whose orbits are so slow that they spend a lot of time in retrograde motion.
I follow a simple 'celestial' rule; a planet is where it is for a reason. Not a 'man-made' rule that puts it where it isn't.
Any query in your case is that Scorpio is on the 5th house cusp, through which Pluto becomes important in later life as its modern ruler. At your age, Mars is its ruler.

Natal Pluto is retrograde in the chart. It is approx. .60mins of a degree from the 5th house cusp. House cusps are often taken from 'City centre'. Depending upon how large a city Tarragona is, the district in which you were born could make a difference to the house cusp position.

Assuming the 5th house cusp is where it is, Pluto is .60mins from it. Pluto's daily motion is VERY slow, moving at approx. .2mins. of a degree per day. It would conceiveiably cross into the 5th house around your 30th year. BUT, Pluto's motion is not direct at your date of birth. It has long been in retrograde motion. Using secondary progressions (1day after birth = 1 year progressed) and s.p.house cusps, Pluto continues to move further back into the 4th house until yourmid-40's. You'll hopefully be enjoying your septenarian years when it finally crosses the 5th house cusp.
How can Pluto be said to be working in the 5th house from birth??? It is not 'celestially' possible. The non-quadrant whole sign or equal house systems place Pluto firmly in the 4th house. You would have to check with the various other house systems to see if any place it in the 5th house.

Pluto's rulership may later have strong significance over 5th house affairs, yet, using Placidus house cusps its implications are in the 4th house. E.g. An inherited family-ancestral trait (4th-12th house) that influences the power of an emotionally instigated mind (Mercury trine Pluto) in dealing with rational concepts (trine in Earth). A 4th house Pluto works and builds up emotion from within; a 5th house Pluto will express it outwardly.
As Katydid already mentioned, Saturn retrograde square Pluto's fixed signs may suggest seemingly immoveable (mentally [ir]rational)walls to climb and overcome where inner, as well as outer authority and control are concerned,

This is something that people disagree on. I personally consider a planet to be in the next house if its around 1-2 degrees or less from it, except when they are conjunct angles, in which case I give 5 because IME that works. Planets conjunct a planet(s) in the preceding house or retrograde planets I see less affecting the next house.

Pluto in the 4th isn't one that I see people waffle over though. If you don't relate to most of the themes of a 4th house Pluto, then it is probably not there.

Well, if person A and person B have the same pluto in the same degree, in the same point, and in the same over same and same, I think that is too lazy to be applied, don't you think? Wouldn't be factors like midpoints or the quadran and non-quadrant systems variants more reliable?