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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 02-12-2020, 01:20 AM
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Exclamation Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Lets start this thread off by this definition of Pluto

Pluto’s name represents the roman god of the Underworld, equivalent to the Greek Hades. Indeed, the planet rules everything connected with death and rebirth, both on a physical and a metaphorical level. Pluto is a synonym for transformation, and this can even apply to the relinquishment of matter or the re-creation of matter through the process of incarnation.
(TheAstroCodex)


With that in mind, Pluto rules archeologists, the underground, archeology, mining, uncovering, and those who work underground. It is not a secret that many of these ancient Greek or Babylonian works were uncovered and excavated, finally seeing the light of day, after being obscured for thousands of years. These works, as if given a new life, were revived, and continue to live on after much transformation--a blessing made by Pluto.

Pluto brings to mind purging, exorcising, and releasing buried power or core truths. And thus, these truths were released to the world.

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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:32 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

A member here, who we will call CT for privacy reasons, had a profound and transformative experience with Pluto, which lead him to study ancient astrology in depth.

Transiting Pluto was making an opposition to his IC, and Saturn, and squaring the ASC, Mercury, and Jupiter. His Solar return had Pluto interacting the angles with near perfect orbs.

It was midnight, only a few hours after this event when the Moon (the subconscious) triggered the planetary arrangement.He was relaying this experience to me a few hours after it happened. He woke up from a nightmare. It was a dream that involved something incomprehensible, yet ancient, sacred yet forbidden. It was a dream about the ancient world. He felt as if these were messages from the past. He stood there in the dream, and felt tiny, in comparison to what he was witnessing. He tried to decipher the mystical symbols, as if it were trying to tell him something. He felt like the ancient ancestral spirits from the dead were beckoning him to enter the abyss; he felt like it was an initiation of some sorts, a transformative process by crossing the threshold into the depths.

He woke up, and fell off the bed in shock. All of his emotions ever experienced in life surfaced. He remained frozen on the floor, bent over, in desperate sobs, gasping for air as if he was drowning. He fainted afterwards. He had no idea what to make of this dream, but at the same time, his destiny seemed to be clear to him.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:33 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

You can find many astrologers, who practice the ancient way, have prominent Pluto. Even if Pluto is lurking, he still pulls the strings of the planets and influences this behavior.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:35 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Traditionally Mercury rules astrology, going back to ancient times. Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology, perhaps because the Greek god Ouranos was the primeval god of the starry skies.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:39 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Traditionally Mercury rules astrology, going back to ancient times. Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology, perhaps because the Greek god Ouranos was the primeval god of the starry skies.
Waybread,

Mercury the trickster, and Uranus the shock artist, have pretended for far too long. Pluto reveals and transforms. Astrology is a transformative and revelatory experience.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:46 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Each planet, including Pluto, has a positive and negative nature.

Mercury is also the psychopomp, or mythological conductor of souls. He also rules your own thoughts and communication. Uranus rules liberation.

Astrology deals with stars in the heavens.

However, if you're not familiar with Jeff Greene's books on Pluto, you would probably find them very meaningful.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Each planet, including Pluto, has a positive and negative nature.

Mercury is also the psychopomp, or mythological conductor of souls. He also rules your own thoughts and communication. Uranus rules liberation.

Astrology deals with stars in the heavens.

However, if you're not familiar with Jeff Greene's books on Pluto, you would probably find them very meaningful.
True liberation occurs with Pluto. Pluto is neutral, it doesn’t care, it only exists as a force unbiased in an aware and unaware state. And thus it rules awareness and consciousness.

Also would that happen to be Liz Greene’s husband?
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Unread 02-12-2020, 01:58 AM
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Uranus was referred to Herschel for a period of time during its discovery.

Herschel did not name the planet Uranus, he called it "the Georgium Sidus" (the Georgian Planet) in honor of King George III of England.

Imagine the skies being ruled by a British Monarch
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:04 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Jeff Green and Liz Greene are not related.

Herschel understandably wished to honor his monarch, but of course, the name didn't stick. With Uranus as the next planet beyond Saturn, 18th century astronomers knew that the god Uranus was the father of Saturn who was the father of Jupiter, who was the father of Mars and Venus, so there was a rationale for the name Uranus.

Of course, none of this is relevant to your thesis.

Another point you might consider is that astrology has multiple branches, some of which are not about awareness and consciousness. Think about horary, mundane, electional, and medical astrology.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:10 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Those branches are not relevant to this discussion, as we are only talking about Pluto, the purest of the planets giving the world directions to practice astrology in its purest and most undistilled form--Plutonian astrology. Everything else is derived, as an aftermath.

Waybread, are you an Aquarius? You seem to be pro-Uranus.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:19 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

I'm not "an Aquarius." My sun is in Aquarius. However, I don't feel tribal about it.

With sun sign astrology, I would be called an Aquarian.

How much do you know about the history of astrology?

But anyway, if Pluto is your thing, I can't stop you.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:21 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Waybread, your wisdom is far greater than mine, and I respect and value your contributions to this forum.

I hope you didn't feel like this was a futile exercise. You have conveyed your ideas politely and in an understandable manner.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:22 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Waybread,

Wasn't/isn't Uranus visible under rare circumstances? I'm sure astronomers have picked up on it, even the ones in the ancient world
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Unread 02-12-2020, 02:44 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Yes-- some historians of astronomy think that Ptolemy in the second century CE actually observed Uranus-- or used the data of an even earlier Greek astrologer named Hipparchus. But because Uranus moved so slowly, they thought it was a fixed star. Herschel wasn't the first to see Uranus: he was the one who recognized it as a planet.

If you google something like "Uranus naked eye" you will find guides for amateur astronomers on how to spot it. But viewing conditions have to be really good.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 06:26 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Pluto and Traditional astrology are both edgy.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 10:45 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
True liberation occurs with Pluto. Pluto is neutral, it doesn’t care, it only exists as a force unbiased in an aware and unaware state. And thus it rules awareness and consciousness.
I agree with you that the outer planets represent self-raising consciousness through awareness, and that Pluto initiates liberation from old controlling behaviour patterns.

Yet you appear to be looking at Pluto through a purely 'traditional' perspective, whose lore doesn't even recognise or consider the influence of the outer planets in their teachings? In which case I have difficulty following your reasoning.

Many Moons ago during my astrological teaching as a student, someone said the same thing of Pluto as you did above.

The reply came through the 'modern astrology' approach. I.e.:
Pluto has rulership over Scorpio, a WATER element. The water temperament is based upon the individual forces of, and working within the feeling nature. It (or feeling!) is subjective of nature.
Like water, it can get in/through every nook and cranny anywhere. The 'feeling' expressed within Scorpio by/through its ruler Pluto is deep and, sometimes, unapproachable. Its feeling nature can take over control of a person's otherwise individuality.
Pluto isn't neutral of nature. If it appears to cut itself off from 'feeling', it's more a matter of hiding behind its mask of self-survival protection.

OTOH, Uranus is modern ruler of Aquarius, an Air sign. Every Air sign is 'mental' of nature. Air also has the ability to get into every nook and cranny, but it is not affected by feeling when doing so. It's this ability that can make Air 'neutral' through its mental application.
Yet every astrology enthusiast is aware of Aquarius's 'one way mind' that, through Uranus, is more objective of nature. It can take a totally different view that clashes with, or can detach and separate itself from others without a second thought, let alone feeling anything.

Air and Water do not mix well. It's Water that 'cares' through feeling. Air can be an issue because 'caring' is not included in its natural mentality state, of which Uranus of Aquarius is usually the blamed culprit.

A lesson that taught this much.

Last edited by Frisiangal; 02-13-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 12:18 PM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Yet you appear to be looking at Pluto through a


purely 'traditional' perspective, whose lore doesn't even recognise

or consider

the influence of the outer planets in their teachings?

In which case I have difficulty following your reasoning.
a Siriusly apposite comment
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Unread 02-13-2020, 01:33 PM
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Smile Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Lets start this thread off by this definition of Pluto

Pluto’s name represents the roman god of the Underworld, equivalent to the Greek Hades. Indeed, the planet rules everything connected with death and rebirth, both on a physical and a metaphorical level. Pluto is a synonym for transformation, and this can even apply to the relinquishment of matter or the re-creation of matter through the process of incarnation.
(TheAstroCodex)


With that in mind, Pluto rules archeologists, the underground, archeology, mining, uncovering, and those who work underground. It is not a secret that many of these ancient Greek or Babylonian works were uncovered and excavated, finally seeing the light of day, after being obscured for thousands of years. These works, as if given a new life, were revived, and continue to live on after much transformation--a blessing made by Pluto.

Pluto brings to mind purging, exorcising, and releasing buried power or core truths. And thus, these truths were released to the world.
Pluto, like Osirus, is a masculine version of the earliest known deity of the Underworld, the goddess Ereshkigal.

She's not about physical death--that's Saturn. She's about transmigration of the soul following Saturn's ending of corporeal life.

Last edited by david starling; 02-13-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 01:38 PM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post


Pluto doesn't reflect light...
.Pluto doesn't carry a message for us.....

You can't see pluto with the naked eye.

There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun, so

....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too


The problem is

that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system,

it should be added to our astrological calculations.

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Unread 02-13-2020, 01:42 PM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

You can find many astrologers, who practice the ancient way,
have prominent Pluto.
Even if Pluto is lurking, he still pulls the strings of the planets
and influences this behavior.
consider traditional astrological techniques
that work fine without dwarf planets such as pluto
it might surprise you
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Unread 02-13-2020, 01:58 PM
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Smile Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
The humanly visible portion of the spectrum of light is but a small sector of the entire spectrum. Saturn restricts our ability to comprehend that entirety.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 02:20 PM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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The humanly visible portion of the spectrum of light is but a small sector of the entire spectrum. Saturn restricts our ability to comprehend that entirety.
Do you know some animal that has eyes that can spot Pluto?
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Unread 02-13-2020, 02:30 PM
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Smile Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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Do you know some animal that has eyes that can spot Pluto?
The eagle, perhaps?
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Unread 02-13-2020, 02:33 PM
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Re: Pluto rules Traditional Astrology

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The eagle, perhaps?
Does it though?
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Unread 02-13-2020, 03:24 PM
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Does it though?
They won't say.
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