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  #126  
Unread 01-11-2020, 09:28 AM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

I thought i would start with Roddens rectified chart of Helena Blavatsky, and the reasons behind it! https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blavatsky,_Helena


If you scroll down to to "Source Notes" you will see Rudhyar wanted to give her a Sirius rising, but that is down to wanting to give her Hermetic meaning, but doesn't make it true!


Some think birth happened on the night of 30/31st July, Opal don't get confused as Russia was following the Julian Calendar at the time, so 12 days has to be added to make astrology charts accurate!


I'll be back soon!

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  #127  
Unread 01-11-2020, 09:47 AM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Rodden gave Madame Blavatsky a rectified time of birth as 02:17 AM, only because she wanted her to have hermetic meaning with the other star i study, being Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star!


The time was chosen to have Alnilam rising by paran at location, but this doesn't make it true, and makes the whole chart inccurate, i wish hermetic astrologers and secret brotherhoods would stay out of astrology, it makes things very difficult to study a contaminated chart!
Even childrens books are heavily contaminated with hermetic philosophy:-
https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Cassandra_Vablatsky



Paran Graph below showing Alnilam rising!
Attached Images
File Type: png picture 52 40% (2).png (330.4 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by Monk; 01-11-2020 at 09:54 AM.
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  #128  
Unread 01-11-2020, 12:30 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

That's weird. She was what she was, what would be gained by altering her chart. She reminds me of a female Crowley.
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  #129  
Unread 01-11-2020, 12:32 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Have you watched Disney's Fantasia with adult hermetic eyes?
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  #130  
Unread 01-11-2020, 12:59 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Rodden gave Madame Blavatsky a rectified time of birth as 02:17 AM, only because she wanted her to have hermetic meaning with the other star i study, being Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star!


The time was chosen to have Alnilam rising by paran at location, but this doesn't make it true, and makes the whole chart inccurate, i wish hermetic astrologers and secret brotherhoods would stay out of astrology, it makes things very difficult to study a contaminated chart!
Even childrens books are heavily contaminated with hermetic philosophy:-
https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Cassandra_Vablatsky



Paran Graph below showing Alnilam rising!
Do we have a chart that Blavatsky used for herself?

I have some of her writings, I will go see if I can find them.
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  #131  
Unread 01-11-2020, 01:08 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Hi David, Jup and Opal,


I have just found a very juicy conspiracy regarding rectified birth charts on Astro Data Bank that is very dubious, and i doubt that i will ever trust them again.....interested?


I'm not sure how much i can write today, but we use Astro Data Bank so much! And is on topic as it all leads back to Thomas H. Burgoyne!!!


Sorry Opal, it involves a Canadian Hermetic astrologer, she must be! Lois M. Rodden was the driving force behind Astro Data Bank, she learned astrology from the Church of Light as shown below:-


https://www.uraniatrust.org/index.ph...rs/lois-rodden
https://www.encyclopedia.com/science...s/church-light
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Light
Manly P Hall was Canadian too. I don't take it personal. You have Crowley
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  #132  
Unread 01-11-2020, 02:33 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Harry S. Truman was a 33 degree mason, the time of his chart is by the "Memory" of Lois Rodden, or was she trying to put a star on the M.C. by projected onto the ecliptic measure.


Any want to say what star it was?


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Truman,_Harry_S.


https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...7WaSr8sXys81Rg

Last edited by Monk; 01-11-2020 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Adding link.
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  #133  
Unread 01-11-2020, 02:47 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Harry S. Truman was a 33 degree mason, the time of his chart is by the "Memory" of Lois Rodden, or was she trying to put a star on the M.C. by projected onto the ecliptic measure.


Any want to say what star it was?


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Truman,_Harry_S.


https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...7WaSr8sXys81Rg
Let me refresh my mind on Harry, I will be back.
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  #134  
Unread 01-11-2020, 04:53 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Let me refresh my mind on Harry, I will be back.

Hi Opal,
By the time that Lois Rodden made up about when Harry Truman was born, the M.C. was 11* 50' Cancer and Sirius was 12*29' Cancer by projected measure, this is comical!


The time given on Franklin D. Rooselvelt birth horoscope is 30th January 1882 at 20:45pm New York.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...lt,_Franklin_D.


At this time the M.C. would have been 22*08' Gemini, and Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris Star was at 21*50' Gemini by projected measure!


I wonder if it is just me who has a twitchy nose regarding these dubious times?


Franklin D. Roosevelt was a 32* Freemason

Last edited by Monk; 01-11-2020 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Edit
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  #135  
Unread 01-11-2020, 05:17 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Tomorrow i will look at the parans by ancient Greek style to when J.F.K. was born and the Death of his brother Bobby Kennedy!


Bobby Kennedy paran chart for his death is below, using ancient Greek day marker, sunset previous to date, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass...ert_F._Kennedy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...iracy_theories He was assassinated shortly after midnight at 12:15 AM on 5th June 1968 in Los Angeles.

Last edited by Monk; 01-11-2020 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Adding Graph
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  #136  
Unread 01-11-2020, 10:43 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Hi Opal,
By the time that Lois Rodden made up about when Harry Truman was born, the M.C. was 11* 50' Cancer and Sirius was 12*29' Cancer by projected measure, this is comical!


The time given on Franklin D. Rooselvelt birth horoscope is 30th January 1882 at 20:45pm New York.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...lt,_Franklin_D.


At this time the M.C. would have been 22*08' Gemini, and Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris Star was at 21*50' Gemini by projected measure!


I wonder if it is just me who has a twitchy nose regarding these dubious times?


Franklin D. Roosevelt was a 32* Freemason
I am not up on American history. I really try to stay out of political aggravations.

I feel, it is getting worked up about things I have no control over, like the price of gas.

I do know that the Rosicrucian's were infamous? famous? for faking death.

I don't regard Roosevelt with royalty. I am not familiar with Rodden either. Did she marry into America, or move there?
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  #137  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:50 AM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Hi Opal,


Most of our data regarding birthcharts come from Lois M. Rodden's astro databank, a great deal of birth details are featured there that she picked up herself, however she was prone to rectify time when she wasn't sure.


She originately came from Canada, moved to the USA and married, she wasn't an astrologer before she joined "The Church of Light" who trained her that Thomas H. Burgoyne was involved with.


I'm just getting started with politician's birthcharts that are correct or dubious regarding the time of birth mostly from the era of when Lois M. Rodden was in charge of Astro Databank that includes many of her personal charts she collected.


I'm finding many politicians that have a Sirius or Alnilam connection by either Paran or projected on to the angles.


The rating system used by Astro Data Bank is on link below, however if Rodden wasn't completely sure i think she would rectify charts to show powerful stars:-


https://astrologyforaquarius.com/art...d-data-grading
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  #138  
Unread 01-12-2020, 08:31 AM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

We know that Lois M. Rodden rectified her own birth chart as she didn't know the time.....but did she enhance it, make it a more powerful chart?


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rodden,_Lois_M.


These links are confusing, please click on "Search for this page title" after clicking on above link, then click on the first link at top of the page, it will also tell you about her personal history!

Last edited by Monk; 01-12-2020 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Adding info.
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  #139  
Unread 01-12-2020, 08:58 AM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Hi Opal,


There are 4 Royal Persian Stars, they are powerful, being Aldebaran, Regulus, Antares and Fomalhaut, which you have on your chart.


It would seem that Lois M. Rodden wanted two persian stars on her chart for the time of birth that was rectified shows Antares on the M.C. (True South) by paran and Albebaran on the Nadir or I.C. by paran (True North).


Graph below:-
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  #140  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:20 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Hi Opal,


Most of our data regarding birthcharts come from Lois M. Rodden's astro databank, a great deal of birth details are featured there that she picked up herself, however she was prone to rectify time when she wasn't sure.

Are the rectified charts marked to denote rectification? I was under the impression that they had to be stated to be so.


She originately came from Canada, moved to the USA and married, she wasn't an astrologer before she joined "The Church of Light" who trained her that Thomas H. Burgoyne was involved with.

I like church buildings. I don't like being there for services. I go for funerals, weddings, baptisms, tea, or work. I prefer not to work at them though, you observe too much bad behavior from the powers that control the strings.

I'm just getting started with politician's birthcharts that are correct or dubious regarding the time of birth mostly from the era of when Lois M. Rodden was in charge of Astro Databank that includes many of her personal charts she collected.


I'm finding many politicians that have a Sirius or Alnilam connection by either Paran or projected on to the angles.


The rating system used by Astro Data Bank is on link below, however if Rodden wasn't completely sure i think she would rectify charts to show powerful stars:-


https://astrologyforaquarius.com/art...d-data-grading
Powerful stars do not ensure power. Common people, like me, have powerful stars. Rectifying by that alone, is pretty cheesy. To rectify it takes actions of life to prove the burden of evidence.

I too, am dismayed at your findings. It definitely shortens the length of and the validity of astro's database.
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  #141  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:25 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

I felt this should be visible to people to read. I admire, her efforts. There is a rating system, but it is good to read what the ground rules were. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Lois Rodden and data grading
Birth times and birth certificates play a vital role in astrology.
Scientific astrologers and research technicians need birth data.
The work they do depends upon a time, date and place of birth.
Data is obtained from people, birth certificates, family records, hospital records and written documents.
It comes via personal contact, phone conversations, letters, books and the internet and the astrologer’s first duty, on receiving the data, is to validate its authenticity and level of accuracy.
But during the first half of the 20th-century data-grading was not a top of the list priority for astrologers.
Poor accuracy standards
America had experienced an astrology revival during the 1930s, but accuracy standards were low.
There was no regulation and many so-called astrologers couldn’t construct an accurate birth chart.
Then in 1939 war erupted in Europe.
It was a period of great political and social upheaval and the astrologers required birth-data to explain what was going on and to predict outcomes.
But in the rush to get the birth details of the political and other change agents involved in the revolutionary transformation they forgot to heed Alan Leo’s informed comment that ‘…the average recorded birth time may be presumed correct within ten minutes or a quarter of an hour’ and that ‘most published nativities must be regarded as more or less approximate’ and then they neglected to validate the data’s accuracy.
Then, some astrologers realizing they were working with approximate birth times concluded that the charts required rectification.
The end result was an astonishing array of rectification techniques all promising amazing results, but all hopelessly unreliable.
A great idea gets hatched
This was the state of play until the 1970s when Lois Rodden and a handful of other data collectors in America realized that much of the birth-data that was being used by astrologers was simply hearsay, rectified guesswork or pure speculation.
It was a woeful situation that was adversely affecting the scientific status and credibility of astrology.
Then the idea to verify and validate existing and new birth-data got hatched.
The end result was The Rodden Rating System.
The Rodden Rating System
To quote Lois Rodden from her book Profiles of Women:
‘The Rodden Rating System of accuracy developed quite spontaneously at the time that Profiles of Women was in the process of publication (in late 1979), and has been used in each of the successive data collections.
Collectors around the world have recognized the simplicity and efficiency of the rating system.
AA Accurate data from birth-certificate, civic record or written family source
A Accurate as quoted by the person, kin, intimate friend or associate
B Biography or autobiography
C Caution, no source. Undocumented data, an ambiguous quote or a source that has not proven credible
DD Dirty data: two or more unsubstantiated quotes
Data accuracy is always a problem.
We data collectors (and we would add those doing astro-research) become very skeptical as the very nature of recorded information is such that human error accumulates in spite of the best intentions.
There is no data book or collection that is without flaw.
Though it is possible to find cases when the birth certificate is in error, AA data is the best evidence we have of accurate birth information.
Data rating explainers
‘A’ data may or may not be accurate.
Please keep in mind that public figures, especially politicians, answer a public question to be accommodating rather than specific in regard to their birth time.
The answer of ‘8.00am, midnight, 6.00pm, just before noon’, or variations thereof may be gracious but totally inaccurate or the time given may be approximate.
The chance of accuracy is better when the public figure is a client of an astrologer who requests data from birth records.
‘B’ data may or may not be accurate.
A person may lie about their age in their autobiography, and authors lean toward descriptions of a ‘wild and stormy night.’
Literary license may be suspected unless the authors specify their source of information.
Biographers who market scandal and gossip may actually create misinformation for the sake of shock value.
‘C’ data may or may not be accurate.
Until a source can be traced there is no way to know if this data has any validity.
When magazines and journals are quoted without the original source they may only be considered as reference; i.e. Data from Profiles of Women is not a source but a reference.
‘DD’ – Dirty Data – is presented for reference only and often stimulates correspondence that leads to correction and confirmation.
As we astrologers work together for the good of our field, we all benefit, improving our data base world wide.’
Lois ended her explanation of the various data classifications with a plea: ‘Give the source of your data – and put the source on every chart.’
Three cheers for Lois Rodden
There’s no doubt that the development of the Rodden Rating System was the best thing to happen to astrology in the second half of the 20th-Century.
Three cheers for Lois Rodden.
Now, when new or old birth data becomes available, the person providing the data must state its source and those wishing to use the data can rate its authenticity and accuracy – particularly the accuracy of the birth time.
The practice, which was quickly adopted, represents an important, positive development in astrology’s chequered history.
Lois also did everyone a big favor by applying her rating system to all the older US data she had collected.
This came from astrological organizations – like The Church of Light – data collections – like Sabian Symbols – and the astrological magazines that were very popular during the 1930s and 1940s.
It was a massive task.
She collected thousands of data over many years that revealed just how undisciplined the astrological community was in the first half of the 20th-century.
While some pre-1950 data was sourced to birth certificates, birth records and family records and given a AA rating most of it was so poorly sourced it had to be given a C or DD rating.
This meant that it was either made up, speculative or wrecktified.
Now the astrological community reveres AA birth data.
The birth time has been documented on a birth certificate or family record.
But the evidence reveals that some AA data is best described as almost accurate and is not accurate enough for those important research projects that require an almost precise ascendant degree.
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  #142  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:41 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

I'm not happy with Astrodatabank, they cant even get the M.C. correct regarding Bill Clinton, how many times have we astrologers examined data from them that is inccurate?



I have a question i would like help on concerning President Bill Clinton,


I have an M.C. for him on my own program approx. 22* Gemini, like below:-


https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/bill-clinton/


But if you click on "Birthtime Credit Rodden" from Astro Data Bank it will show the chart but with a different M.C. in Cancer, have you any idea's why this has happened? It would mean he has an Alnilam M.C. by projected fixed star measure.
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  #143  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:44 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
We know that Lois M. Rodden rectified her own birth chart as she didn't know the time.....but did she enhance it, make it a more powerful chart?


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rodden,_Lois_M.


These links are confusing, please click on "Search for this page title" after clicking on above link, then click on the first link at top of the page, it will also tell you about her personal history!
She gives her own data a "C" rating, may or may not be right. You would think that she would have a better rating for her own self rectified chart.
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  #144  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:48 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

by the way, my time comes from the birth certificate issued from the hospital of birth, with my foot prints stamped on.
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  #145  
Unread 01-12-2020, 12:54 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Hi Opal,


There are 4 Royal Persian Stars, they are powerful, being Aldebaran, Regulus, Antares and Fomalhaut, which you have on your chart.


It would seem that Lois M. Rodden wanted two persian stars on her chart for the time of birth that was rectified shows Antares on the M.C. (True South) by paran and Albebaran on the Nadir or I.C. by paran (True North).


Graph below:-
Her appearance, is similar to that of an Aquarian friend of mine, who is the only person I know that is or was into astrology. She studied Uranian Astrology, is a psychologist, and hypnotist, is very weird, and very disliked. I am her friend, those that know her well and longer than I, call her "your friend". She is very Christian now.
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  #146  
Unread 01-12-2020, 01:01 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
I'm not happy with Astrodatabank, they cant even get the M.C. correct regarding Bill Clinton, how many times have we astrologers examined data from them that is inccurate?



I have a question i would like help on concerning President Bill Clinton,


I have an M.C. for him on my own program approx. 22* Gemini, like below:-


https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/bill-clinton/


But if you click on "Birthtime Credit Rodden" from Astro Data Bank it will show the chart but with a different M.C. in Cancer, have you any idea's why this has happened? It would mean he has an Alnilam M.C. by projected fixed star measure.
Wow, from virgo to libra asc, 13 degrees, both stating Rodden.
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  #147  
Unread 01-12-2020, 01:05 PM
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Smile Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Clinton was a Gem M.C. [IMO].
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  #148  
Unread 01-12-2020, 01:13 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Clinton was a Gem M.C. [IMO].
Astro-charts has Gemini MC
Astro has Cancer MC

Both state Rodden as the source
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  #149  
Unread 01-12-2020, 01:18 PM
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Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

It is comical that Astro Data Base posted a chart for Bill Clinton that has the wrong M.C.


So Naf!


https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...9fXE37cfvcw0QA
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  #150  
Unread 01-12-2020, 01:30 PM
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Smile Re: Thomas H Burgoyne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Are we sure, which is wrong? David seems sure.
I'll qualify it as highly likely.
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