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  #76  
Unread 04-29-2019, 04:07 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Waybread - your comment re Pluto conjunct sun struck a chord with me today. I've been told by many ppl that I'm intense and strong, though I don't feel that way. But I strongly dislike weakness in the form of bullies and flying monkeys. Going over the events of the last two days I've realised that my natal sun has been hammered and that I need to take on more sun qualities. Perhaps, like someone else here mentioned, my difficulties of my sun is making me despise sun and leo qualities. I mean, when Saturn was in Leo I had the best time. My life was going well in all spheres. I had a great job, great friends, exercised daily, fantastic health, and I met my husband. I wish life could be like that everyday.
And I have a question - when a natal planet experiences difficult aspects, is it more important to take on the qualities of that planet? Eg: with Pluto square sun, in 2017 I experienced abuse like never before. I was damned if I do damned if I don't. But only now, 2 yrs later do I feel like I can start looking after my sun.


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  #77  
Unread 04-29-2019, 08:20 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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I mean, when Saturn was in Leo I had the best time. My life was going well in all spheres. I had a great job, great friends, exercised daily, fantastic health, and I met my husband. I wish life could be like that everyday.
Last time Saturn was in Leo, Neptune was in Aquarius and Jupiter passed through Scorpio. If you have anything in any fixed sign, particularly the later third of a fixed sign, it would've been caught in that t-square.

That may have been the ripe time for too good to be true experiences that felt like both the completely real thing and the answer to your prayers. But, Neptune opposite Saturn: there would also come a time when the illusion shattered. (My sun was transited by Saturn and opposed by Neptune during that time, and yes, a variation of that happened to me). If Saturn and Jupiter formed any kind of square/t-square/opposition transit to anything in your chart, particularly Mars or Moon, that would've been a great time for a new and serious relationship. Jupiter gets you interested, Saturn gets you committed.

But it sounds like it's your marriage that's taken the greatest toll on your health and self confidence: that's what you keep posting about again and again. Illusion shattered. Ugly roots showing.

Pluto conjunct sun, or aspecting sun, is bound to bring a lot of power, and power plays, into your life. Pluto is where we have power, where we're disempowered, and where we give power away. Libra, being all about balance between self and other, is at perhaps the greatest risk of giving power away.

Keep in mind that it's the sun's detriment: a Libra sun, paradoxically, has to develop self in a rather anti-ego way. Leo, in contrast, has no such dilemma: it's very clearly about the self, and self development. Leo sun people might struggle with sense of self and self esteem issues, maybe even more intensely than other sun signs do, but it clearly is about self. Libra has to constantly balance self with other, and all too often, the other wins at the expense of self.
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And I have a question - when a natal planet experiences difficult aspects, is it more important to take on the qualities of that planet? Eg: with Pluto square sun, in 2017 I experienced abuse like never before. I was damned if I do damned if I don't. But only now, 2 yrs later do I feel like I can start looking after my sun.
You already have the qualities of Pluto. Pluto conjunct Sun: Pluto and what it symbolizes is so intrinsic to your sense of self that you can't experience one without the other. But, because Pluto is conjunct your Sun, Pluto square your Sun was also Pluto square natal Pluto. That intensified the Pluto message, and Sun was caught in the crossfire. Or, to put it more accurately, drowned out in that conversation.

If you experienced a strong sense of disempowerment at that time, that is what Pluto often does. Its power is so strong that most of us feel we can't wield it, and tend to give it away. Libra is already well conditioned to give away, and give too much away. Probably, you made a deeply unconscious decision, early in your life, to give your power away instead of trying to hold onto it. That really came back to bite when Pluto squared your Sun/Pluto.

Last edited by Osamenor; 04-29-2019 at 08:25 PM. Reason: typo
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  #78  
Unread 04-30-2019, 04:56 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Osamenor - it's very kind of you to reply to me after my previous comment about Leos that offended you. I know you've helped me before with my own threads. I just haven't had good experiences with Leos which is why I said it.

Hmmmm... You know what? Perhaps I did give my power away but I don't think I knew what my power was in the first place. I thought I would just have 3 kids and it would be a piece of cake. Yes my illusion was shattered. My husband and I had it all figured out and it worked out nothing like what we imagined. I think the first step is to focus on that sun - vitality, rest, exercise, happiness, play. Maybe if I do that I won't hate on Leo's?

I think what U say about differences between a leo sun and libra sun is what P***es me off. I mean balancing between my self and the other is really hard. I would much rather work on my self.

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Unread 04-30-2019, 05:36 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

I think its more mindset. If you tell yourself you hate all leos you will attract leos that will give u a reason to hate them into your life. Its called the power of attraction. The universe gives you what u feel you need/ deserve. I recommend watching The Secret on netflix, this will explain the power of attraction.
The whole mindset of i hate all leos is comparable to saying i hate a specific nationality. Every sign has good and bad people every sign has positive and negative traits. But each if us choose how we use that energy. Each person is completely different and beautiful and unique in their own way. So to judge people just for their sun sign. Is more of a you issue. Like Hitler was a taurus i believe does that mean ever taurus will do what he did?? No of course not. He didnt do those things because he was a taurus. Leos dont do things just because they are a leo or any other sign.

I believe once you change your mind set, you will start ti see a different sude of people. Start attracting better people into your life.

Idk about your husband/family. But life just never turns out the way we expect. Life is hard and a struggle. All humans have this exact same experience. Things can just work out one way or another. Which puts us into the next phase of our life.

I always tell my self
Q. Why do i have to experience such hard times and struggle.
A. We have to struggle to better appreciate the good thats is coming just around the corner.
You cant have good if you never experience bad.
Without bad/ good better would just be every day normal. We would take the good for granted.
So dont take the good for granted, because there us still more struggle to come.

Its a never ending loop. Nothing about life is perfect.

Its not about what we go through, but its about how we handle what we go through.
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Unread 04-30-2019, 07:56 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

"Its not about what we go through, but its about how we handle what we go through."
So True,

Sun in a woman's chart also symbolises the men in her life. Conjunct Pluto would indicate a powerful, dominating man who takes control of your individuality.
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  #81  
Unread 04-30-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"Its not about what we go through, but its about how we handle what we go through."
So True,

Sun in a woman's chart also symbolises the men in her life. Conjunct Pluto would indicate a powerful, dominating man who takes control of your individuality.
Wow, I never thought of it that way but good perception. It's also my mother in my chart (10th ruler). And she was the driving force in my family but I trusted her. She does have Leo qualities that I like but she's also in the 12th house. We relate very much in regards to being victims. Sorry, I don't want to sidetrack this thread.

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  #82  
Unread 04-30-2019, 12:23 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Osamenor,

Thank you for pointing out that T square that occurred when Saturn was last in Leo. I am looking at an upcoming long Saturn station opposite my early Leo sun and was dreading it because when Saturn conjuncted my Sun in 2005 there were two deaths in my family within three days,my daughter was hit by a truck out biking and suffered life changing injuries, and I spent the next few years overwhelmed with the responsibility for a demented parent I had had a very poor relationship with. All this happened just as I had hit a peak of creativity and led to my spending three years pretty much in limbo.

They always tell you with hard Saturn transits to look at what happened the last time you had one. But you remind me how important it is to look at the other transits that were going on.

Since all Leos are going to be dealing with that Saturn-Sun opposition over the next 2.5 year any thoughts you'd like to share about how it is likely to manifest this time around and how best to deal with it would be very helpful. My last Saturn opposition to an early Leo Sun also brought a creative peak but it was followed by a severe, painful year-long illness and the end of a marriage that really needed to end. But that was a relatively brief transit with no station. That upcoming station makes for many months of Saturn-Opposite-Sun. So the better I understand it, the better off I will be.
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Unread 04-30-2019, 08:37 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post
I think the first step is to focus on that sun - vitality, rest, exercise, happiness, play. Maybe if I do that I won't hate on Leo's?
I agree. And I think that's really going to help your Libra-sun message, too. While Libra is about balance between self and other, that means self needs equal weight to other. Libra sun has one basic problem to solve: either being too focused on self, or too focused on other, giving too much self away. I think the second scenario is actually much more common, and if you're female, you get socialized to put others first no matter what sun sign you are, so it's if anything, even more of a problem.

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I think what U say about differences between a leo sun and libra sun is what P***es me off. I mean balancing between my self and the other is really hard. I would much rather work on my self.
You need to work on your self in order to have that balance. I see you giving too much of your self away, putting others first way too often. Especially, it sounds like, in your marriage. (No accident that Libra is associated with marriage!)

Leo and Libra aren't really that different, at the end of the day. All sun signs need to work on themselves. It's really a question of what this self work is in reaction to. For Libra, it may very well be a need to strengthen and shore up self because they've put others first too much, too often, too long.

The twelfth house can also carry a tendency to be self sacrificing. But, paradoxically, it's very much about self. It's also the house where you get to let go of societal expectations--rather like a young medieval woman who insists on entering the convent, where she won't have to cater to a husband and kids and will get to focus on her own spiritual development, instead of marrying like her family wants her to.
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  #84  
Unread 04-30-2019, 08:38 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post

Since all Leos are going to be dealing with that Saturn-Sun opposition over the next 2.5 year any thoughts you'd like to share about how it is likely to manifest this time around and how best to deal with it would be very helpful.
That would be off topic for this thread. It's purely predictive astrology, but this is still a Natal Astrology thread. Please start a new one if you want to discuss that. And I can't guarantee that I'll contribute. It's not something I've studied at any length or necessarily have time to right now.
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  #85  
Unread 05-01-2019, 01:46 AM
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I agree. And I think that's really going to help your Libra-sun message, too. While Libra is about balance between self and other, that means self needs equal weight to other. Libra sun has one basic problem to solve: either being too focused on self, or too focused on other, giving too much self away. I think the second scenario is actually much more common, and if you're female, you get socialized to put others first no matter what sun sign you are, so it's if anything, even more of a problem.


You need to work on your self in order to have that balance. I see you giving too much of your self away, putting others first way too often. Especially, it sounds like, in your marriage. (No accident that Libra is associated with marriage!)

Leo and Libra aren't really that different, at the end of the day. All sun signs need to work on themselves. It's really a question of what this self work is in reaction to. For Libra, it may very well be a need to strengthen and shore up self because they've put others first too much, too often, too long.

The twelfth house can also carry a tendency to be self sacrificing. But, paradoxically, it's very much about self. It's also the house where you get to let go of societal expectations--rather like a young medieval woman who insists on entering the convent, where she won't have to cater to a husband and kids and will get to focus on her own spiritual development, instead of marrying like her family wants her to.
I am ALWAYS being discriminated if I don't put others first. That's the biggest issue. My husband (aries) cannot seem to see how selfish he is. I've done so much for him this week. He just responds with 'you're not supportive of me and you do nothing all day.' that is in fact the exact opposite to what's happening. And the same happened when I worked as a dental assistant many years ago. Eg: during lunch breaks we had to stay in and answer phone if it called. If I wanted to go out on my lunch break I became the scapegoat. In fact all my adult life, if I didn't BOW down to some ppl whether friend or husband or in laws or work colleague, I would be scapegoated. Ppl see me as someone to be used. That's why the balancing act is so difficult. In my heart I know what I deserve. But I find other ppl just don't see it. I don't deserve ppl being mean to me when I'm doing good. U understand? So I'm looking after everyone yet they all report back to me that I do nothing all day. I'm confused.

But I almost think I have a jealousy towards Leo's more so than aries. This jealousy is because they CAN look after their self without expectation of looking after others or sacrificing for others. I don't get jealous of Aries cos they have Martian qualities I'm not interested in. Leo can still be strong and be a woman. I feel that's something I am forbidden in this lifetme. Especially if embracing my sun always causes backlash. I don't want to sit in the corner like baby anymore. I want to spread my wings and be me and have ppl accept that

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  #86  
Unread 05-01-2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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But I almost think I have a jealousy towards Leo's more so than aries. This jealousy is because they CAN look after their self without expectation of looking after others or sacrificing for others. I don't get jealous of Aries cos they have Martian qualities I'm not interested in. Leo can still be strong and be a woman. I feel that's something I am forbidden in this lifetme. Especially if embracing my sun always causes backlash. I don't want to sit in the corner like baby anymore. I want to spread my wings and be me and have ppl accept that
I can think of two women I know, off the top of my head, who are Leos and have similar problems to you: exactly what you describe. Bad marriages to selfish, disrespectful men, bending over backwards to make it work, and in at least one case, constantly feeling that she gets backlash if she tries to stand up for herself.

One of those women did leave her selfish, disrespectful husband, spent several years as a single mother fighting a drawn out custody battle, and now has a much better husband and interesting adult children.

What causes backlash is you acting in a way contrary to others' expectations. It sounds like you respond to that backlash by retreating. As it is, you have people trained to see you as the self sacrificing, non-assertive person who will help them no matter how badly they treat you. Whenever you start to change and assert yourself more, people in your life react by saying, "No, don't change!" and you acquiesce and stop changing. Which makes the same thing happen again each time you get fed up and decide to assert yourself.

But what if you didn't back down? What if you responded to your husband's insults and tantrums with, "You're right, Husband, I'm a b___ who doesn't support you. I won't (fix your dinner, clean up your mess, drive you to work, go to your family event, etc.)"? What if you waited out the ensuing bigger tantrum and stood your ground? (And called the police if the tantrum escalated into violence.)

If you can imagine being more assertive, you can do it. What's missing is the follow through.

Your current situation isn't something you're fated to because of your sun sign. It isn't even a situation that Leo or Aries people are immune to (though they might find such a situation even more frustrating than you do, if they are in it). It may be that your Libran desire for harmony has turned into "keep the peace at all costs," which makes you do what you do--but that's a pitfall of Libra, not its fate. The solution is to swing the balance of the scales back in favor of yourself. Even if that means you have to seriously fight to do it.
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  #87  
Unread 05-01-2019, 09:50 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Well said, Osamenor. Summed up beautifully!!

Not everything in life should be examined through the filter of astrology. Sometimes all that is required is honesty, followed through with common sense. Waiting for/expecting others to change is pointless. If something in your life isn't working, then you have to be the one to change ... and to mean it.
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  #88  
Unread 05-02-2019, 03:10 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

I think some impish housewives (or maybe home economists) totaled up a bill of what it would cost to hire someone to do the work of a home-maker.

1. Child care
2. House cleaner
3. Caterer or restaurant meals
4. taxi or chauffeur service
5. commercial laundry
6. concierge/social secretary service.

They figured out what each of these would cost an average husband per year if he had to pay for them.

Libra is the consummate diplomat, but it does have a keen sense of fairness with those scales of justice.
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  #89  
Unread 05-02-2019, 04:50 AM
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I can think of two women I know, off the top of my head, who are Leos and have similar problems to you: exactly what you describe. Bad marriages to selfish, disrespectful men, bending over backwards to make it work, and in at least one case, constantly feeling that she gets backlash if she tries to stand up for herself.

One of those women did leave her selfish, disrespectful husband, spent several years as a single mother fighting a drawn out custody battle, and now has a much better husband and interesting adult children.

What causes backlash is you acting in a way contrary to others' expectations. It sounds like you respond to that backlash by retreating. As it is, you have people trained to see you as the self sacrificing, non-assertive person who will help them no matter how badly they treat you. Whenever you start to change and assert yourself more, people in your life react by saying, "No, don't change!" and you acquiesce and stop changing. Which makes the same thing happen again each time you get fed up and decide to assert yourself.

But what if you didn't back down? What if you responded to your husband's insults and tantrums with, "You're right, Husband, I'm a b___ who doesn't support you. I won't (fix your dinner, clean up your mess, drive you to work, go to your family event, etc.)"? What if you waited out the ensuing bigger tantrum and stood your ground? (And called the police if the tantrum escalated into violence.)

If you can imagine being more assertive, you can do it. What's missing is the follow through.

Your current situation isn't something you're fated to because of your sun sign. It isn't even a situation that Leo or Aries people are immune to (though they might find such a situation even more frustrating than you do, if they are in it). It may be that your Libran desire for harmony has turned into "keep the peace at all costs," which makes you do what you do--but that's a pitfall of Libra, not its fate. The solution is to swing the balance of the scales back in favor of yourself. Even if that means you have to seriously fight to do it.
Well thank you cos I reeeeaaaallllyyy needed to hear that. Phew. Ahhh. My lord. You are right. 100 percent right. I've made myself there for ppl all the time, then when I can't they get so angry and threaten me and it's so uncomfortable for me I retreat. I'm too weak to stand my ground. I don't like fighting. I have to learn ways to not fight and keep going. But I find i get so many threats to keep me of service I'm just not skilled at stopping it. I'll try my best to follow through like you've adviced. That's the hardest part.
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  #90  
Unread 05-02-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think some impish housewives (or maybe home economists) totaled up a bill of what it would cost to hire someone to do the work of a home-maker.

1. Child care
2. House cleaner
3. Caterer or restaurant meals
4. taxi or chauffeur service
5. commercial laundry
6. concierge/social secretary service.

They figured out what each of these would cost an average husband per year if he had to pay for them.

Libra is the consummate diplomat, but it does have a keen sense of fairness with those scales of justice.
This is true.
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Unread 05-02-2019, 05:13 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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Well thank you cos I reeeeaaaallllyyy needed to hear that. Phew. Ahhh. My lord. You are right. 100 percent right. I've made myself there for ppl all the time, then when I can't they get so angry and threaten me and it's so uncomfortable for me I retreat. I'm too weak to stand my ground. I don't like fighting. I have to learn ways to not fight and keep going. But I find i get so many threats to keep me of service I'm just not skilled at stopping it. I'll try my best to follow through like you've adviced. That's the hardest part.
Sounds more like, if you have to learn anything, it's how to fight despite not liking it. This sounds like a disowned Mars to me.

Disown any planet, and you draw people into your life who reflect it at you in the worst possible way. Especially if your disowned planet is Mars (or Pluto).

If the reason why you're not following through is because it's so uncomfortable, would it be easier if you had people who supported your standing up for yourself? If your family and friends are not supportive of that, you would have to find them elsewhere. Wonder if there's a support group for women with selfish husbands.
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Unread 05-02-2019, 08:12 PM
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Sounds more like, if you have to learn anything, it's how to fight despite not liking it. This sounds like a disowned Mars to me.

Disown any planet, and you draw people into your life who reflect it at you in the worst possible way. Especially if your disowned planet is Mars (or Pluto).

If the reason why you're not following through is because it's so uncomfortable, would it be easier if you had people who supported your standing up for yourself? If your family and friends are not supportive of that, you would have to find them elsewhere. Wonder if there's a support group for women with selfish husbands.
Hahaha 😂😁 could you imagine a support group for selfish husbands? Lol. I'm already part of a narcissist support group. There's not much you can do.

According to other ppl I used to be Martian, but over the last 8 years I met my match with the in laws and no support and now I have adrenal fatigue. I'm learning to win a different way. And that is through emotional happiness behind the scenes. Narcissists eliminate your support base successfully as a form of control, so I can't fight face to face, it doesn't work. Too many ppl involved that the narcissist has groomed long before I even came along. Narcissists spend every second of most hrs of the day and night making sure they have you cornered. Inherently positive ppl like me do not have the ability to stop that. They go after your friends and family who then run away and you're left with no one. Narcissists are that difficult that your support base runs away.

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  #93  
Unread 05-20-2019, 06:58 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

So I'm back on here to write that some of the Leo's on here may have been right about their statements about me. Particularly the fact that my own issues with my sun has made me resentful of Leo's.

Well today I did a tarot asking what I need to embrace more in my life to prevent the troubles I've experienced with those who have narcissistic personality disorder and psychopaths. The advice I got was to embrace qualities of sun in leo. I kid you not. Sun in Leo. There it is. The slap in my face. I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna try really hard.
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  #94  
Unread 05-20-2019, 08:34 AM
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It seems like they can be a joy to be around but what if they are angry?
It can take a Leo not days, months, but years to recover from an explosion. That is solely based on the magnitude of energy emitted. I don't suggest finding out.
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Unread 05-20-2019, 10:24 AM
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It can take a Leo not days, months, but years to recover from an explosion. That is solely based on the magnitude of energy emitted. I don't suggest finding out.
Lol so true.
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Unread 05-21-2019, 03:35 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Grudge holding nature of Leos is underrated but I have to say they are pretty strategic compared to other signs. Not on the same level as a Libra placement (hence the saturn exalt) or earth signs but far more strategic than what modern astrologers portray Scorpio to be.

Sometimes I read stuff about Scorpios and vengefulness and wonder if it is really Leos who are like that.
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Unread 05-21-2019, 04:17 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

19th Law, when are you going to take off the training wheels of simplistic sun-sign astrology? Your continuing exclusive emphasis on sun signs is a lot of the reason why you're having trouble interpreting actual human beings.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
19th Law, when are you going to take off the training wheels of simplistic sun-sign astrology? Your continuing exclusive emphasis on sun signs is a lot of the reason why you're having trouble interpreting actual human beings.
But... It is true that star signs have their own traits.
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Unread 05-21-2019, 10:34 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Sun signs have their own traits, but if we leave it at that, we've fundamentally got the equivalent of a pop magazine column, or Linda Goodman's Sun Signs.

If the 19th Law knows a sun Leo who seems to be vindictive-- which is not a characteristic trait of a Leo sun-- astrologers don't leave it at that, thinking that astrology got it wrong. We look to see what else is going on in said Leo's horoscope.

Maybe it's the moon or a stellium in Scorpio square sun, for example; or a troubled Mars or Pluto.

There just aren't any Astrology Lite shortcuts to an astrological character analysis, no matter how badly he wants there to be or believes that there should be.
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Last edited by waybread; 05-21-2019 at 10:36 PM.
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Unread 05-21-2019, 11:21 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Actually the Mesopotamians who invented astrology started out with very different constellations than the ones we use now; and they used constellations well off the ecliptic. They developed the nature of their gods long before assigning these gods to heavenly bodies. Today tropical astrologers use signs that no longer overlap well with the constellations for which they were named. Even sidereal signs over lap poorly with constellations that are significantly bigger or smaller than 30 degrees. See: Nicholas Campion's A History of Western Astrology, Gavin White's Babylonian Star Lore and Bernadette Brady's YouTube lectures on what she calls "visual astrology."

Archaeologists think that decorations on the walls of the caves of Lascaux depict the constellation Taurus, the Pleiades, and other fixed stars-- during the Paleolithic. There was no astrology back then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/871930.stm
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