Dual Hammers

I was wondering if somebody could help me figure out what effect this might have on my charts?

Right on Drowzy! You've been doing your studying I see! Pretty cool to have 2 Fists of God in that type of formation. It's also known as a Quadriform apparently. I'm sure you know about this pattern already.

However, I've not seen it connected like this before and I'd bet that's pretty rare. I find the God's fist pattern more rare than a yod by a longshot so far. I have seen yod's intertwined like this before, though.

There was a member here when I joined named EJ53 and was a really good astrologer (in my opinion) that suggested that the yod version of this pattern is known as a tub or bathtub formation. Maybe yours is the jacuzzi or hot tub version! Interesting as Mercury seems to be the focal point of the pattern, to me anyway.

There's talk in one yod thread in particular (I know there's a bunch of them) about various aspect patterns and some basic info about them. It's the one with the topic of a yod pattern that's a pentagram pattern that may have more on this in particular.

StillOne said:

Right on Drowzy! You've been doing your studying I see! Pretty cool to have 2 Fists of God in that type of formation. It's also known as a Quadriform apparently. I'm sure you know about this pattern already.

However, I've not seen it connected like this before and I'd bet that's pretty rare. I find the God's fist pattern more rare than a yod by a longshot so far. I have seen yod's intertwined like this before, though.

There was a member here when I joined named EJ53 and was a really good astrologer (in my opinion) that suggested that the yod version of this pattern is known as a tub or bathtub formation. Maybe yours is the jacuzzi or hot tub version! Interesting as Mercury seems to be the focal point of the pattern, to me anyway.

There's talk in one yod thread in particular (I know there's a bunch of them) about various aspect patterns and some basic info about them. It's the one with the topic of a yod pattern that's a pentagram pattern that may have more on this in particular.

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2 questions

1. So does that mean, that my thor's hammers (god's fists arrowheads quadriforms) (I prefer this name because of my norse heritage) are both yods? I'm not entirely clear on what a yod is (you'll have to forgive me, astrology is massively in depth. I'm still strugling grasping the concept of aspects XD). I do know that a yod is a series of odd aspect, but what makes the aspects themselves odd.


2. I find the bathtub analogy very interesting. I also find it funny that you say I'm a hot-tub. What prompts you to say this (that wasn't meant to be hostile or anything, just curious)?

Drowzy_Shooter said:

2 questions

1. So does that mean, that my thor's hammers (god's fists arrowheads quadriforms) (I prefer this name because of my norse heritageI hear ya there, Odin's Fist maybe?) are both yods? I'm not entirely clear on what a yod is (you'll have to forgive me, astrology is massively in depth. I'm still strugling grasping the concept of aspects XD). I do know that a yod is a series of odd aspect, but what makes the aspects themselves odd.

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Well, they're not Yod's because they're not in a quincunx pattern. They are of their own nature entirely and I haven't seen too many studies on your pattern, unfortunately.

I'd recommend taking a look around for them!

Drowzy_Shooter said:

I find the bathtub analogy very interesting. I also find it funny that you say I'm a hot-tub. What prompts you to say this (that wasn't meant to be hostile or anything, just curious)?

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Lol, I thought it was funny too! Your pattern is more upright with steeper sides than the yod version so it looks like like a deeper but smaller tub... hence a hot tub! Lol

I suppose I'm just special



And yes, odin's fist will be a nice compromise.

I swear I won't make any more bumps after this.

I lied (10 characters)

bumpty bump, lol..

hey drowsy long legs... i recall looking at your chart before over the question of your size..

having the sun and moon in the config makes it a more central consideration.. kinda like having both of these planets - saturn and venus on your sun/moon midpoint.. sun/moon = 15 libra 36 - about square the venus, and within a reasonable orb opp your saturn..

these are hard aspect configurations involving 2 135 aspects from the square on the bottom to a third point directly opposite the midpoint of the square.. the planet or point on the top of the square becomes the channel to work out the challenge of the square on the bottom.. i have one in my chart too.. i think bil tierney in the book dynamics of aspect analysis talks about this pattern a wee bit..can't totally remember..

always lots to consider looking at a chart. your moon is the sole planet in the eastern hemisphere so it will have a significant role to play in your chart regardless if it was a part of both these patterns..

i associate this pattern with health issues and making adjustments. often the signs involved represent different approaches.. when they are brought together in a config like this, i think it means they try to work challenges associated with this pattern in a more sophisticated manner by merging the energies of all 3 planets/signs/houses involved..

symbolic way to think of the aspect 135.. it is halfway turning point between 90 and 180.. 135 from 0 aries point is 15 leo forward or scorpio back.. the individuation process represented by leo has extended itself to the point it has to make an adjustment away from self consciousness to awareness of the other - 180/libra)... 15 scorpio or 135 back from the start of this cycle it makes an adjustment away from involvement with others - one on one relationship 180 to involvement with society 270 (180+90 cap)..

i think the moon at top in virgo reiterates the health focus and this might come up in connection with difficulties associated with the venus/saturn square - health issues related to venus being one area that would appear more in focus given that it is in the 6th and in hard aspect to saturn.. you can also think of the rulership themes all 3 of these planets connect with.. - 6th/12th and 10th house, depending on what type of house system you want to work with.. and also signs involved - virgo/capricorn and aries..

as for the one involving moon/sun and saturn this looks to me to be a focal saturn in aries in the 9th which suggests a 'do it your own way', in an independent, resourceful manner especially with regard to any and all philosophical, religious, political or higher education context...

all in all - the stress implied by these patterns need resolving on your part in a more conscious manner which is often gotten when one runs into conflict, as opposed to enjoying a state of complacency... to me these are good patterns to have in a chart as it suggests someone who is not able to sit idly and watch life go by, but more motivated to get things done in a rewarding context.. this is how i see all hard aspects, but some charts seem more dragged down with them then others... i wouldn't say this about your chart, but the fact there are more of a focus on the hard series aspects, might imply you need to be more aggressive in conflict resolution..

i would try to use transits to these patterns to understand the pattern better.. usually some event will come out with outer planets to these points which might be an opportunity for you to understand these patterns better.. or try to understand the focal planet on the top of the patterns as best you can while using those points to help utilize the potential of these configs..

my t hammer has sun at top with moon/pluto square on the bottom.. it suggests a degree of emotional intensity which i have used for musical purposes in a creative way, but also ran into trouble being too emotionally attached to a particular approach too.. the health issue i had to work through about 4 years ago was a bout with cancer.. this coincided with my chiron return early 50's as well so i suppose that is a part of it too... hopefully this gives you something to ponder and is of some practical value.. cheers james

Thanks very much for the input! I found it very interesting. I also liked your idea of having these aspects just be something that will drive me to glory.

thanks! hard aspects are good to have in a chart and that is what these hammers are.. without hard aspects, nothing would get done.. sextiles and trines might be nice in that they suggest an easy flow of energy between the planets and etc, but in a persons chart they tend to soften a chart.. best to have a mix of both and it is fun to look at charts considering these types of balances.. i have to be careful as i can run off at the mouth when it comes to astrology! thanks for your feedback drowsy shooter..

I agree, what good is a chart without a little challenge? An feel free to ramble on, you're only helping me learn.

drowsy, what do you think they mean? have you researched the individual aspects? what do you think they mean in a configuration like this?

hey drowsy - thanks... this is off the topic of hammers for a sec - you have a string of planets about 18 degrees apart on your chart and they show up strongly in the 5th harmonic chart... 18 is 1/2 of 36 which is 1/2 of 72 - the quintile aspect... check it out when you get a chance...

i wonder about the fact moon is on the top of one hammer, while saturn is on the top of the other while both these 2 are on the bottom or each others hammer... would seem to emphasize these 2 planets strongly.. this is just an intuitive thought but i wonder about how you perceive your parents relationship with one another - how they connect or get along - and how you have internalized all of this in your own way.. the way i see your chart with the moon off on the one side is that one parent, possibly your mom - might play a more dominant role in your life.. it's conjecture on my part.. i think the thing with astrology on the net is the interactive process of sharing doesn't happen to the same degree. when a person goes to an astrologer to try to understand a particular part of there life better they typically open up and talk about it... that part is missing on these forums usually... it makes sense too, as the focus is on learning more about astrology, as opposed to addressing individual concerns...

i suppose that is a reason why i like to look at those posts of folks with a specific dilemma that are trying to work out... they are very clear in what is eating at them! okay, how was that for running off at the mouth drowsy?

sandstone said:

hey drowsy - thanks... this is off the topic of hammers for a sec - you have a string of planets about 18 degrees apart on your chart and they show up strongly in the 5th harmonic chart... 18 is 1/2 of 36 which is 1/2 of 72 - the quintile aspect... check it out when you get a chance...

i wonder about the fact moon is on the top of one hammer, while saturn is on the top of the other while both these 2 are on the bottom or each others hammer... would seem to emphasize these 2 planets strongly.. this is just an intuitive thought but i wonder about how you perceive your parents relationship with one another - how they connect or get along - and how you have internalized all of this in your own way.. the way i see your chart with the moon off on the one side is that one parent, possibly your mom - might play a more dominant role in your life.. it's conjecture on my part.. i think the thing with astrology on the net is the interactive process of sharing doesn't happen to the same degree. when a person goes to an astrologer to try to understand a particular part of there life better they typically open up and talk about it... that part is missing on these forums usually... it makes sense too, as the focus is on learning more about astrology, as opposed to addressing individual concerns...

i suppose that is a reason why i like to look at those posts of folks with a specific dilemma that are trying to work out... they are very clear in what is eating at them! okay, how was that for running off at the mouth drowsy?

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I found what you said about my parent interesting, and also very accurate. I love my father a lot, but sometimes I feel disconnected from him. However my mother feels very close to me (maybe this can be interpreted by my mother bro a Pisces and my father being a Gemini). Maybe (haven't read checked into it yet) the fact that I have part of fortune and Chiron in my 4th house could make it that a good aspect from my part of fortune to my mother, and a bad aspect from my Chiron to whatever represents my father in my chart could make me feel close to one while a bit aloof from the father. Also if my age has anything to do with it, I'm 14.


And I love your ramblings, they're quite helpful.

And stillone, I've still got to work on that. I have basketball practice a lot, plus my school and other things are keeping me busy. Sometimes I feel as though I'm neglecting my studies.

ahh shucks.. thanks drowsy for those comments... the father is typically represented in the chart via sun and saturn... the fact you have them in hard aspect gives a bit of a read on the possible connection to your dad.. the other part of the chart to look at for parents is the midheaven axis.. this relates to parents generally with either 10th or 4th having an association with either parent... astrologers are mixed on this, but i have a theory which i can't confirm.. possibly 4th is same sex with 10th opposite.. it works with my chart, lol.. the sun sign to sun moon sign in your chart does work easier with the pisces then the gemini.. ideal scenario is you try the best to get along with both parents! they are the only 2 you have and i wish i still had mine.. i am sure you do anyway..

there are some astro theories on retro saturn and absence of the father or the father somehow missing.. i don't really buy it, but i know some folks feel the idea has some merit.

hey i just re-jigged my settings and see you have chiron squaring onto the ascendant axis from the 4th.. simple read on chiron is carrying a wound in the particular area where chiron lands.. means greater sensitivity to 4th house - family type issues... you can see the overlap here hey? whether you get some ideas off the hammers with the sun and moons involvement in them, or you go to chiron and put the focus on that! too many options in astrology.. it explains why some like to go back to 7 planets!

sandstone said:

ahh shucks.. thanks drowsy for those comments... the father is typically represented in the chart via sun and saturn... the fact you have them in hard aspect gives a bit of a read on the possible connection to your dad.. the other part of the chart to look at for parents is the midheaven axis.. this relates to parents generally with either 10th or 4th having an association with either parent... astrologers are mixed on this, but i have a theory which i can't confirm.. possibly 4th is same sex with 10th opposite.. it works with my chart, lol.. the sun sign to sun moon sign in your chart does work easier with the pisces then the gemini.. ideal scenario is you try the best to get along with both parents! they are the only 2 you have and i wish i still had mine.. i am sure you do anyway..

there are some astro theories on retro saturn and absence of the father or the father somehow missing.. i don't really buy it, but i know some folks feel the idea has some merit.

hey i just re-jigged my settings and see you have chiron squaring onto the ascendant axis from the 4th.. simple read on chiron is carrying a wound in the particular area where chiron lands.. means greater sensitivity to 4th house - family type issues... you can see the overlap here hey? whether you get some ideas off the hammers with the sun and moons involvement in them, or you go to chiron and put the focus on that! too many options in astrology.. it explains why some like to go back to 7 planets!

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I know what you mean