Pluto an overrated piece of astrology.

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magnolia8

Well-known member
It is overrated.
Got sick of every other discussion on astrology forums being about Pluto. People WISH they were "magnetic, sexy, intense, manipulative, dangerous" and whatever else "super-human" is attached to this planet.

Another thing: they're not what I'd call resilient - they're frequently self-destructive and never live up to their potential.

Mind you, I have a few major Pluto aspects (Sun sq Pluto, for example); but I hardly identify with this planet.
 
A

Animatrix

Well-known member
magnolia8 said:
It is overrated.
Got sick of every other discussion on astrology forums being about Pluto. People WISH they were "magnetic, sexy, intense, manipulative, dangerous" and whatever else "super-human" is attached to this planet.

Another thing: they're not what I'd call resilient - they're frequently self-destructive and never live up to their potential.

Mind you, I have a few major Pluto aspects (Sun sq Pluto, for example); but I hardly identify with this planet.
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The superpowers are definitely overrated, yes. But to say that Pluto is not making a major influence in a natal chart, or by transit, is wrong. Self-destruction is very plutonic too.

And it is clearly overrepresented in the charts of models. The top models with the best sex appeal all have Pluto aspecting their Suns or ascendants. There's almost not a single exception, actually.

The powers of Pluto are very subtle.

Pluto rules regeneration, reproduction, death. These are not "small" an insignificant aspects of human life, these are the most powerful aspects of human life. Pluto is sexuality.
 
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magnolia8

Well-known member
I almost wrote that sexiness is one of the few traits that these people often exhibit. I have no problem acknowledging that.

I'm aware that self-destruction is attributed to Pluto. I mentioned it because many state that Plutonians are strong; people who "rise from the ashes" no matter what befalls them. That's not what I've seen. They typically just crumble (and that's not being said with disdain).

No response to anything else. I didn't say death et al weren't powerful. I'm just sick of the "look at me, I'm so dark, intense and seductive" stuff from people obsessed with this planet. Though, beyond Venus/Pluto, I don't really identify with my Pluto energy, which makes me wonder whether Pluto rules the things it is said to.
 
A

Animatrix

Well-known member
magnolia8 said:
I almost wrote that sexiness is one of the few traits that these people often exhibit. I have no problem acknowledging that.

I'm aware that self-destruction is attributed to Pluto. I mentioned it because many state that Plutonians are strong; people who "rise from the ashes" no matter what befalls them. That's not what I've seen. They typically just crumble (and that's not being said with disdain).

No response to anything else. I didn't say death et al weren't powerful. I'm just sick of the "look at me, I'm so dark, intense and seductive" stuff from people obsessed with this planet. Though, beyond Venus/Pluto, I don't really identify with my Pluto energy, which makes me wonder whether Pluto rules the things it is said to.
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With the Square, have you ever been in trouble with authorities, or with powerful persons/forces? Sun Square Pluto often means that the native will at some Point in their lives, be required to prove their strength. Both my parents have this aspect and it applies well to them. Many celebrities also with this aspect got in trouble with authority in some way.

But yes I agree with you, and this "ohh dark energy" is not pure plutonic energy, it is perverted Pluto. When the Plutonic energy is well integrated, the native is simply charismatic and strong, who can empower others. It is actually when the Plutonic energy is not well integrated, that it is manifested as excessive sexual energy, and "dark" themes etc.

What kind of Venus-Pluto aspect do you got? These are very interesting aspects.

And as far as the Phoenix rise is concerned, this is almost a legend. All Sun-Pluto aspects seem to indicate, at least according to my own personal observations (which means not so much, but I have read the books written by some astrologers who says this as well) that they experience an ego death of some sort. They go through some kind of crisis, and they emerge kind of weakened, but they refine their self to a higher moral self.
 
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Andrea_

Andrea_

Well-known member
In a world built on so many illusions and lies, and becoming more and more depersonalized, Pluto's energy might indeed seem scary and intense :) Though thinking abut it, when hasn't it been? It depends where Pluto is and the aspects it makes.

Society doesn't generally teach you about transformation, channeling inner or raw desires into a higher form of manifestation/energy and accepting the fact that some things are meant to happen and you shouldn't remain stuck on them.

I have a Bundle-type chart. Pluto is on the handle. I am in a continuous Pluto Transit until 50 something. Every planet, the ASC, some asteroid, and the South Node will be touched by it/some have already been. Saturn in Pisces in mutual reception with Neptune in Cappy is the Dispositor of my chart.

Y'all placing the fault on the stars but the manifestation is everywhere and in our hands more or less.

From the beginnings of time until now, in the 21st century, so much wrong has been done, that [some] wrongs today are necessary and good.

Tragedies and Sad stories happening once you've grown up are made of systematically ignored warnings. Nothing happens suddenly, and the way this Universe works, is not to ultimately destroy you either, or at least, not your learning process. People are scared of an invisible force that makes them suffer but that's not what it is. And whatever it is, it starts forming from inside you.

I like drawing a parallel to the photography of stars and the milky way. Only during the "scary" night, cold or not, when everything is more still, you can photograph the beauty of stars/milky way and vaguely realize the size of all the Universes and stars. During the day, you are like in a warm, blanket-y illusion, where the clouds and light don't easily let objectives see past them. I don't know if the way some of us see and feel this world is deeply encoded, differently from how it is others. Thus it makes it useless to try and make others see exactly like you, but instead teach them to be a better form of themselves.

I am not speaking of individual tragedies, and it's not the case to over-personalize either. It would be egoistical to pretend of a stranger to do that.
 
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Animatrix

Well-known member
Andrea_ said:
In a world built on so many illusions and lies, and becoming more and more depersonalized, Pluto's energy might indeed seem scary and intense :) Though thinking abut it, when hasn't it been? It depends where Pluto is and the aspects it makes.

Society doesn't generally teach you about transformation, channeling inner or raw desires into a higher form of manifestation/energy and accepting the fact that some things are meant to happen and you shouldn't remain stuck on them.

I have a Bundle-type chart. Pluto is on the handle. I am in a continuous Pluto Transit until 50 something. Every planet, the ASC, some asteroid, and the South Node will be touched by it/some have already been. Saturn in Pisces in mutual reception with Neptune in Cappy is the Dispositor of my chart.

Y'all placing the fault on the stars but the manifestation is everywhere and in our hands more or less.

From the beginnings of time until now, in the 21st century, so much wrong has been done, that [some] wrongs today are necessary and good.

Tragedies and Sad stories happening once you've grown up are made of systematically ignored warnings. Nothing happens suddenly, and the way this Universe works, is not to ultimately destroy you either, or at least, not your learning process. People are scared of an invisible force that makes them suffer but that's not what it is. And whatever it is, it starts forming from inside you.

I like drawing a parallel to the photography of stars and the milky way. Only during the "scary" night, cold or not, when everything is more still, you can photograph the beauty of stars/milky way and vaguely realize the size of all the Universes and stars. During the day, you are like in a warm, blanket-y illusion, where the clouds and light don't easily let objectives see past them. I don't know if the way some of us see and feel this world is deeply encoded, differently from how it is others. Thus it makes it useless to try and make others see exactly like you, but instead teach them to be a better form of themselves.

I am not speaking of individual tragedies, and it's not the case to over-personalize either. It would be egoistical to pretend of a stranger to do that.
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It is true that tragedies are made of consistently ignored warnings, but we are made with a nature that is so incredibly prone to destroy itself, slowly and gradually, that it is impossible not to go through a personal crisis. Som get destroyed and fail miserably, even kill themselves, others live happy lives and die in old age. We destroy ourselves but we cannot really help it. Even when we try not to, we still do.
 
R

RogueLibra

Active member
I beg to differ about Mars-Pluto being ultra assertive. I personally know a few ppl with that aspect and they are very cowardly. They wont put their hands on a man but when it comes to their relationships they are very aggressive and I just cant respect that. I have a moon square Pluto and yes I do the passive aggressive dance until im comfortable then I'm prettt steady with my affections. Im a man who likes to kiss everyday and cuddle every night. I am very affectionate but im not going to do that with just anybody
 
Andrea_

Andrea_

Well-known member
Animatrix said:
It is true that tragedies are made of consistently ignored warnings, but we are made with a nature that is so incredibly prone to destroy itself, slowly and gradually, that it is impossible not to go through a personal crisis. Som get destroyed and fail miserably, even kill themselves, others live happy lives and die in old age. We destroy ourselves but we cannot really help it. Even when we try not to, we still do.
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A reflection of how we destroy our environment and of how our lifestyle is because of a form of greed which I don't attribute to Pluto. All day inside 4 walls with screens and artificial frequencies and lights in our eyes and brains, little physical exercise or artistic forms of manifestation/let-outs, to which you add the effects of a toxic environment or people, say family. You go nuts at one point. I can't possibly think that the energies of these planets, so spiritual and constructive in their highest forms, translate to this. This is, in my opinion of course, our doing and choice alone. We are not the most intelligent nor the most advanced, despite how much we think we've developed and evolved, many people do not have the notions of transformation, sustainability, and harmony, or did not have access to them.
 
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Animatrix

Well-known member
Andrea_ said:
A reflection of how we destroy our environment and of how our lifestyle is because of a form of greed which I don't attribute to Pluto. All day inside 4 walls with screens and artificial frequencies and lights in our eyes and brains, little physical exercise or artistic forms of manifestation/let-outs, to which you add the effects of a toxic environment or people, say family. You go nuts at one point. I can't possibly think that the energies of these planets, so spiritual and constructive in their highest forms, translate to this. This is, in my opinion of course, our doing and choice alone. We are not the most intelligent nor the most advanced, despite how much we think we've developed and evolved, many people do not have the notions of transformation, sustainability, and harmony, or did not have access to them.
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It's not about a particular planet but we are in fact living in a fallen world, and we have fallen natures. Our instincts are not entirely pure and because of this we suffer. It's just that the law of decay includes us in its process.
The fault is not with the universe or with God, but with us yes, but we cant help it anymore. I do not know what you think about the Garden of Eden story in the Bible, but I believe it 110 percent. We inherited our fallen natures from our ancestors and some of us are more fallen than others.
Everyone will lie, self-glorify and covet in their lifetime. All destructive impulses can in theory be suppressed but not a single one of all the thousands of billions of people who have lived on this earth has succeeded. We all fall short.
 
Scorpio90

Scorpio90

Well-known member
Overrated? Then explain why the transits of pluton are so notorious and forceful ... almost that we can not save ourselves.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Scorpio90 said:
Overrated?
Then explain why the transits of pluton are so notorious and forceful ...
almost that we can not save ourselves.
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Eris' discovery revealed the problem of terming Pluto a full-scale planet
and in 2006, Pluto, Eris, and the largest asteroid, Ceres
were reclassified as dwarf planets.
Two more dwarf planets, Haumea and Makemake
were discovered in the Kuiper Belt in 2008

as for those transits you mention
Eclipses and Fixed Stars account for their effects :smile:

and to quote Dirius:

"......Pluto doesn't reflect light
Pluto doesn't carry a message for us
You can't see pluto with the naked eye.
There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun
so....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too.
The problem is that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system
it should be added to our astrological calculations...."


 
A

Animatrix

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Eris' discovery revealed the problem of terming Pluto a full-scale planet
and in 2006, Pluto, Eris, and the largest asteroid, Ceres
were reclassified as dwarf planets.
Two more dwarf planets, Haumea and Makemake
were discovered in the Kuiper Belt in 2008

as for those transits you mention
Eclipses and Fixed Stars account for their effects :smile:

and to quote Dirius:

"......Pluto doesn't reflect light
Pluto doesn't carry a message for us
You can't see pluto with the naked eye.
There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun
so....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too.
The problem is that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system
it should be added to our astrological calculations...."
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How come Pluto is so obvious in appearance if its not significant?
I find it humorous that you guys argue for its insignificance based on its size LOL, Scorpio is known for being more powerful than they seem, the same with Pluto.
 
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