Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology

Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:47 PM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
At least those 2 dudes generously enough for introducing the sciene of "zodiac order".
What about Morinus being a tropical astrologer?

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Unread 05-24-2019, 07:52 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
What about Morinus being a tropical astrologer?
Indeed, he is. But I lived my entire life in equator with only wet and dry season. So I have no choice.

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/equator/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SunConjunctUranus For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #53  
Unread 05-24-2019, 09:16 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

The Sun obviously changes its position and effect depending on its location for places other than the Equatorial zone. It would be foolish to assume that the same processes do not equally apply to the Moon and the other five planets, and that these places are not most obviously divided into four seasons, each with three equal parts. If this happens to not occur at the Equator because north and south differ only in location, but not in effect (by elevation), then it logically follows that these places experience all the effects of the stars and angles, but zero effect from the so-called tropical zodiac.

In these geographical places, it is most wise to use only the planets and their aspects with each other, and particularly their placement relative to the Sun (the four phases) and the angles (for they are in full effect here as elsewhere compared to the polar regions). It is not natural to employ the usual division of houses, triangles, elevations and terms here, instead the sublunar influence of heat, moisture, dryness and cold is wholly decided upon the other factors relative to the universe and the nativity - see https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=126640

Note that places just below the tropics still experience some degree of change in effect, so they must still give proportional power to the zodiac. Suppose some planet at the exact Equator is always operative relative to the zodiac, it can still be powerful, operative or inoperative relative to its phase with respect to the universe, and powerful, operative or inoperative relative to the angles with respect to the nativity, and not to mention the great power of planets intermingling with each other or with their aspects, which cause the greater change in the quality of the seed. The so-called zodiac is definitely not a necessity for the natural method of inquiry, and in fact, it is simply nonexistent for certain latitudes.

Last edited by petosiris; 05-24-2019 at 09:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #54  
Unread 05-25-2019, 02:16 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 274
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Aries all the way to pisces is about starting off with baby mentality, all about me mentality, and ending with the "greater good" mentality.

Aries is the start, the beginning, the top of the human body. The head/face which is our most unique feature, and thus is our own unique "identity" as it is the main thing that distinguishes ourselves from others on the surface.

We start only thinking about ourselves, with no experience or knowledge to do anything more than that.

Taurus is second, and rules the neck/throat. Taurus rules material things/practical things anyways, so the neck symbolizes what we swallow/eat through, which is most closely associated with material things, so this is no coincidence either.

Taurus isn't much more experienced than Aries, thus the reason why Taurus rules practical things. At this point it is not merely about self (aries), but still very far from being about the very end of the zodiac sign evolution (pisces).

Taurus is when the baby is still very young and has the bib and pacifier still, all it does is basic/practical things all day like sleep and eat.

Gemini is third, and rules the brain, shoulders, the arms, and the nervous system. Gemini rules thinking, communication, and thus wit and wit is born from speed, speed is born from nervousness. So it is no coincidence that Gemini rules the nervous system. The shoulders and the arms are very jittery and built in a way so that they move very quickly compared to other body parts, so this is no coincidence. Obviously it's no coincidence that without our brain we wouldn't be able to think.

Also, the shoulders and arms is right below the neck/throat (taurus) too, so this makes sense moving forward. Gemini is when more awareness of life is gained, and it is no longer the toddler (Taurus) but is now the young kid archetype. Very jittery, very thoughtful and communicative at this point over all other points, this is when thinking, wit, restlessness, and communication is at it's highest, this is the stage where learning and thinking about the surrounding environment is naturally at it's greatest and the best time to be done in the lifetime.

Cancer is fourth, and rules the hands, and is the crab (and crabs are unique for their claws/hands). Cancer rules the mood, emotions, the mothering character. This makes sense to be right after Gemini, because after communicating with and learning about the environment is at it's highest (gemini), the environment has thus been analyzed for whatever exactly it is, so now nurturing and taking into account the feelings of others is now possible (cancer's whole theme) and the the most important at this age.

Leo is fifth, and rules the heart, and is the lion. At this phase, self-image is developed, a prideful stance. Leo's theme is pride/heart after all, as ego is it's theme. At this point, dramatic tendencies and playfulness is developed, it is the focus of our lives here, and never before too, as it is when we have finally experienced enough to let loose and start to understand who we are and what we are meant to do, it has become most important.


Virgo is sixth, and rules the digestive system. Virgo is all about peculiarness, details, organization. This is no coincidence, as the digestive system is used to break down food into small parts and puts it exactly where it has to go (organization of scattered messiness).

At this point, we are looking at the age where organization becomes important and becomes the main priority, as the smallest details are the focus. This makes the most sense to happen right after leo (when we acquire our self-image), as right after that we have all of the tools necessary to start preparing for adulthood/maturity (capricorn). We are still in the center/middle-ish area of the body, and have been since Leo, and will be for one more sign: Libra.

Libra is the seventh, and rules the kidneys. The kidneys are physically most similar to the scale, which measures the pros and cons of every situation, and is all about fairness in that way. This is the age where we are about agreeability with others, love and romance affairs have become most important and the main priority. This is the high schooler archetype.

Scorpio is the eighth, and rules sexual matters, power, and extreme things. It rules the reproductive organs. This is the age where we are most about sexual matters and all about being dominant over our surroundings. This is the young adult archetype, fresh out of high school and of college age.

Sagitarrius is the ninth, and rules expansion, largeness, freedom, far from home travels and far from home places. It, among other things, rules the thighs, the legs, and the hips. The thighs contain a lot of fat and are large, same thing with the legs and the hips. These body parts can and tend to grow large and prominently large, sag = largeness and growth/expansion so this is no coincidence either.

This is the age where we are most about freedom, travelling far and abroad and doing whatever we want, and exploring, to have fun, as it is the the prime of our youthfulness. This is the college graduate, who has studied and amassed so much knowledge through college and their education during scorpio, freedom and having fun is the main priority now, as it is the last time it will be available to this extent.

Capricorn is the tenth, and rules the skeletal system and the joints. The skeleton and joints are most responsible for our body's overall stability, without the skeleton and joints we would be a gooey, slimy mess of mere flesh and blood with no actual structure whatsoever.

Capricorn is all about determination, as it is about work, challenges, and climbing up the ladder to success, at the top. Capricorn is the sea goat, whose nature is to climb from the water depths all the way to the top of the mountain (the top of the social ladder). This is the age where building our reputation socially and our career matters are most important, as it is right after sagitarrius, the stage of merriment, optimism, fun and travels, freedom right before the start of true adult hood. This is the age where we are middle age-old age, and the stage of disciplining ourselves more than ever.

Aquarius is the eleventh, and rules the ankles and the circulatory system. It is about discovering who others are, and thus the hopes of all. The circulatory system is the flow of blood to everywhere in the body, similar to how aquarius is the water-bearer, who knows of the hopes of all. This is the age where this is the focus and most important, it is when we are of old age - elderly age, and have acquired the knowledge of what needs to be given to the world for advancement and how to advance society as a whole.

Aquarius is slightly ruled by saturn, saturn rules stability and the entire skeletal system. This is why aquarius rules the ankles, which is a very small portion of our skeleton. Saturn stablelizes the radical, wild eccentricism of Uranus (the main ruler of aquarius). Without as much of saturn's power as aquarius has, it wouldnt be what it is and would be a wild, uncontrollable eccentric mess, with no maturity.

Pisces is the twelfth, and rules the feet. It is when we have acquired compassion for everything, no matter what it is, as of course, this could only be acquired after realizing what the hopes of all are (which was done during aquarius). Pisces is about sacrifice, universal compassion, the death of self, and the end, and when we have developed a very broad, in most cases universal love and understanding. This is the age where we die.

Why it rules the feet is unknown, however it is the bottom of the human body, and as we all know we started at the very top (the head/aries).


That's my take on it all. Hope you enjoyed.

Last edited by YonyGursho; 05-25-2019 at 03:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to YonyGursho For This Useful Post:
david starling (05-25-2019)
  #55  
Unread 05-26-2019, 06:11 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimal View Post
I just noticed something about the order starting with Cancer


It starts with the signs ruling the Moon and the Sun, which makes sense


I don't really get why the signs ruled by the most important planets would be almost in the middle of the Zodiac, when the Sun is really the start of it all, and the Moon is the life giver and representant of Planet Earth, which we live in
Cancer and Leo are flanked by the other houses. Aries is exaltation of the Sun, and Taurus of the Moon, and exaltations are arguably equal or even greater in importance than houses. They are most likely derived from the Babylonian New Year, which put the beginning of the year at Aries.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #56  
Unread 05-26-2019, 06:27 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimal View Post
I just noticed something about the order starting with Cancer


It starts with the signs ruling the Moon and the Sun, which makes sense


I don't really get why the signs ruled by the most important planets would be almost in the middle of the Zodiac, when the Sun is really the start of it all, and the Moon is the life giver and representant of Planet Earth, which we live in
It's about the sequence of Modalities and Elements. The Cardinals are the initiators, and Cardinal-Fire leads it off. The Earth began as Fiery plasma; hardened (became "Fixed" in alchemical terminology) into planet Earth; formed the atmosphere, the Mutable mantle of Air; and the moisture in the atmosphere condensed into rain, and covered the planet with Water.
Starting with Aries as Sign#1 follows that pattern.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Unread 05-26-2019, 06:37 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It's about the sequence of Modalities and Elements. The Cardinals are the initiators, and Cardinal-Fire leads it off. The Earth began as Fiery plasma; hardened (became "Fixed" in alchemical terminology) into planet Earth; formed the atmosphere, the Mutable mantle of Air; and the moisture in the atmosphere condensed into rain, and covered the planet with Water.
Starting with Aries as Sign#1 follows that pattern.
Although Aries is stormy (house of Mars) and increasing heat (elevation of Sun), it is still predominantly moist and the beginning of spring, which element is Air, not Fire.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #58  
Unread 05-26-2019, 06:59 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

The Red Planet is color-coded: Rules a Fire-sign.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:03 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The Red Planet is color-coded: Rules a Fire-sign.
Watery Scorpio?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #60  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:08 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Watery Scorpio?
Scorpio is about the hidden realms, so its Domicle-ruler, Osirus/Pluto, is hidden from naked-eye visibility.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:09 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Scorpio is about the hidden realms, so its Domicle-ruler, Osirus/Pluto, is hidden from naked-eye visibility.
Oh right, your astrology does not involve tangible qualities like heat and moisture.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #62  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:12 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Oh right, your astrology does not involve tangible qualities like heat and moisture.
Hot Sun rules a Fire-sign. Cold light of the Moon rules a Water-sign.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:16 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Hot Sun rules a Fire-sign. Cold light of the Moon rules a Water-sign.
Except that the Moon is actually moderately heating according to Ptolemy and just minutely according to modern scientists https://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/10/u...the-earth.html

Leo is a solid fiery sign, no doubt, solstitial Cancer precedes it.

Last edited by petosiris; 05-26-2019 at 07:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #64  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:17 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Brightness of Venus signifies dense Atmosphere, rules an Air-sign.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:19 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Except that the Moon is actually moderately heating according to Ptolemy and modern scientists https://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/10/u...the-earth.html

Leo is a solid fiery sign, no doubt, solstitial Cancer precedes it.
Glad to know is able to be warmed by its ruler!
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:21 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Brightness of Venus signifies dense Atmosphere, rules an Air-sign.
Yes, indeed - Taurus!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #67  
Unread 05-26-2019, 07:26 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Yes, indeed - Taurus!
Solid, land-dwelling animal signifies Fixed-Earth.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:09 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Solid, land-dwelling animal signifies Fixed-Earth.
Constellations don't exist, but even if they did the sand-dwelling scorpion isn't really watery either. In fact its actually fixed earthy
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #69  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:10 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Solid, land-dwelling animal signifies Fixed-Earth.
Solid moisture and moderate heat = Air
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #70  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:15 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Solid moisture and moderate heat = Air
Solid moisture is snow or ice.
Aha! Water buffalo!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:20 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Most temperaments in physics change from Air to Fire to Earth to Water to Air. The ecliptic, the four seasons, the four ages, the phase of the Moon and the phases of the three outer planets, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars all exhibit this natural change of power.

Occasionally, some movements produce backward change - Air to Water to Earth to Fire to Air. Only the phases of the two inner planets, Venus and Mercury, and the diurnal movement of the angles illustrate this awkward change.

You should never be able to see a change from Air to Earth, Fire to Water, or vice versa. This is because these elements contain two opposite qualities and have absolutely nothing in common. It can be clearly seen from the following observations.

Moon is moistening and moderately heating from new moon to first quarter
Moon is heating and moderately drying from first quarter to full moon
Moon is drying and moderately cooling from full moon to last quarter
Moon is cooling and moderately moistening from last quarter to new moon

Morning additive planets are moistening and moderately heating
Morning subtractive planets are heating and moderately drying
Evening subtractive planets are drying and moderately cooling
Evening additive planets are cooling and moderately moistening

Spring, First Age and Setting are moistening and moderately heating
Summer, Second Age and Midheaven are heating and moderately drying
Autumn, Third Age and Hour-Marker are drying and moderately cooling
Winter, Fourth Age and Anti-Midheaven are cooling and moderately moistening

Aries, Taurus and Gemini are moistening and moderately heating
Cancer, Leo and Virgo are heating and moderately drying
Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius are drying and moderately cooling
Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are cooling and moderately moistening
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
david starling (05-26-2019), JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #72  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:24 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

ptolemy, we both fixate on specific patterns. You're a catalytic thinker. You triggered a new thought for 12/12: Moon in 12/12 is Exalted in Aquarius, ruled by the Heavens. That makes the Moon Queen of the Heavens.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:26 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Most temperaments in physics change from Air to Fire to Earth to Water to Air. The ecliptic, the four seasons, the four ages, the phase of the Moon and the phases of the three outer planets, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars all exhibit this natural change of power.

Occasionally, some movements produce backward change - Air to Water to Earth to Fire to Air. Only the phases of the two inner planets, Venus and Mercury, and the diurnal movement of the angles illustrate this awkward change.

You should never be able to see a change from Air to Earth, Fire to Water, or vice versa. This is because these elements contain two opposite qualities and have absolutely nothing in common. It can be clearly seen from the following observations.

Moon is moistening and moderately heating from new moon to first quarter
Moon is heating and moderately drying from first quarter to full moon
Moon is drying and moderately cooling from full moon to last quarter
Moon is cooling and moderately moistening from last quarter to new moon

Morning additive planets are moistening and moderately heating
Morning subtractive planets are heating and moderately drying
Evening subtractive planets are drying and moderately cooling
Evening additive planets are cooling and moderately moistening

Spring, First Age and Setting are moistening and moderately heating
Summer, Second Age and Midheaven are heating and moderately drying
Autumn, Third Age and Hour-Marker are drying and moderately cooling
Winter, Fourth Age and Anti-Midheaven are cooling and moderately moistening

Aries, Taurus and Gemini are moistening and moderately heating
Cancer, Leo and Virgo are heating and moderately drying
Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius are drying and moderately cooling
Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are cooling and moderately moistening
You have a label or name for this pattern?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:29 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,531
Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
You have a label or name for this pattern?
I call it Aristotle's alchemy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
david starling (05-26-2019), JUPITERASC (05-26-2019)
  #75  
Unread 05-26-2019, 08:40 AM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 25,102
Smile Re: Cancer as the start of the Zodiac makes more sense

Ruled by Hermes/Mercury?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cancer, makes, sense, start, zodiac

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.