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Unread 04-13-2012, 07:08 PM
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Zaphod Zaphod is offline
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Natal Pluto and Suicide

I have an 85-year-old friend who has had 5 suicides on her mother's side of the family - two uncles, her maternal grandfather and two great-great uncles. She has Pluto rising and conjunct the Ascendant (12th House side) and North Node, and is wondering whether there are any links between Pluto's placement and suicide. (Her doctor was nervous about prescribing self-administered medications when he heard this history, but it seems he got over it.) Does anyone have experience with Pluto and suicide (or, for that matter, any other recognized significator of suicide that we can explore)?

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Unread 04-13-2012, 07:38 PM
MaeMae MaeMae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
I have an 85-year-old friend who has had 5 suicides on her mother's side of the family - two uncles, her maternal grandfather and two great-great uncles. She has Pluto rising and conjunct the Ascendant (12th House side) and North Node, and is wondering whether there are any links between Pluto's placement and suicide. (Her doctor was nervous about prescribing self-administered medications when he heard this history, but it seems he got over it.) Does anyone have experience with Pluto and suicide (or, for that matter, any other recognized significator of suicide that we can explore)?
have pluto/nnode conj. and have attempted suicide.
i believe the real msg with NN conjunct Pluto is to metaphorically die in order to live differently.
pluto tests our strengths by uncovering our weaknesses.
Suicide is "giving up", which pluto never does.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 05:54 AM
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Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

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Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
I have an 85-year-old friend who has had 5 suicides on her mother's side of the family - two uncles, her maternal grandfather and two great-great uncles. She has Pluto rising and conjunct the Ascendant (12th House side) and North Node, and is wondering whether there are any links between Pluto's placement and suicide. (Her doctor was nervous about prescribing self-administered medications when he heard this history, but it seems he got over it.) Does anyone have experience with Pluto and suicide (or, for that matter, any other recognized significator of suicide that we can explore)?
Its weird - because I believe that we souls select our lives (whatever is required for our spiritual growth) before incarnating on earth - and I doubt as souls we would choose suicide as our life path.

So it shouldn't really show up on our birth chart. Suicide must be a completely "free will" component - so maybe it could happen in a chart which shows depression, mental instability, mental problems - coupled with lack of support. Has any astrologer seen a chart which "showed" suicide?
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Unread 04-14-2012, 06:01 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

I have Pluto hanging in the IC, close enough to the North Node in Libra to spell some trouble, a depressant planet in the sign of balance. (thumbs down) The risk of developing depression and mood disorders is greater for North Node Plutonians, will further heighten by aspects of Mars and relating to signs Aries and Scorpio, as these signs ruled by Pluto and Mars. In opposition is Venus in the South Node/MC lodged in Aries, so I suppose the risk of suicide for me is proven to be correct (unfortunately), but I sought some pyschiatric help in my late teens/early 20s and prescribed medications for my anxiety and clinicial depression.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 04-14-2012, 07:41 AM
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Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

I have attempted suicide and been excessively reckless/nihilistic on innumerable occasions, and thinking on it now I'd say it's probably a combination of pluto with neptune, for me. Pluto is my most aspected planet and a singleton by way of quadruplicity. It trines my sun, conjuncts saturn, inconjuncts venus and mars, sesquiquadrates my moon (exact), squares mercury (wide orb), semisquares my ascendant and sextiles neptune.

My mother's father, his brother and his sister all committed suicide (separately), as did my dad's cousin and grandfather, another aunt attempted it and so did another cousin. Mostly it's just connected with the downswings of bipolarity, for us.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 11:41 AM
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Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

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Originally Posted by Carris View Post
So it shouldn't really show up on our birth chart. Suicide must be a completely "free will" component - so maybe it could happen in a chart which shows depression, mental instability, mental problems - coupled with lack of support. Has any astrologer seen a chart which "showed" suicide?
I suspect you're right. The most that would show in the birth chart would be a predisposition to depression or unusual sensitivity to psychological stress and perhaps self-destructive tendencies. Also I might look for a profound sense of alienation, of being a misfit, a "square peg in a round whole." Astrological "family dynamics" would be high on my list too, if comparative charts are available. The event itself should be accompanied by a significant transit or progression (or more likely a combination of them). I think there is something (or a few somethings) published on suicide charts but its source escapes me at the moment. A recent example that might be worth looking at is Hunter Thompson; I'll have to see if a birth chart exists for him.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

I did track down Hunter Thompson's birth chart, such as it is (no time given). He had Sun conjunct Pluto in Cancer, septile Neptune in Virgo, trine Mars in Scorpio and opposed Jupiter in Capricorn. StarIQ notes that at the time of his suicide on 2/20/05, transiting Moon was conjunct his Pluto, and I noticed that transiting Saturn (retrograde) had spent the last two weeks of December conjunct his Sun.

Although I don't use the septile aspect much, the Sun-Neptune septile interests me here. David Hamblin said this about the 7th harmonic:

" . . . a number not of manís rational and constructive abilities, but of his wild, fertile and unpredictable imaginationÖ .It is a number of manís highest flights of creative imagination, and of his lowest depths of destructive illusion. I feel that this gets closer to the meaning of seventh harmonic symbolism. Seven may not only be the number of iconoclastic imagination, but the number of the darkest potential in our hearts".

This seems to describe Hunter Thompson's Sun-Neptune contact to perfection.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: Natal Pluto and Suicide

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Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
I did track down Hunter Thompson's birth chart, such as it is (no time given). He had Sun conjunct Pluto in Cancer, septile Neptune in Virgo, trine Mars in Scorpio and opposed Jupiter in Capricorn. StarIQ notes that at the time of his suicide on 2/20/05, transiting Moon was conjunct his Pluto, and I noticed that transiting Saturn (retrograde) had spent the last two weeks of December conjunct his Sun.

Although I don't use the septile aspect much, the Sun-Neptune septile interests me here. David Hamblin said this about the 7th harmonic:

" . . . a number not of manís rational and constructive abilities, but of his wild, fertile and unpredictable imaginationÖ .It is a number of manís highest flights of creative imagination, and of his lowest depths of destructive illusion. I feel that this gets closer to the meaning of seventh harmonic symbolism. Seven may not only be the number of iconoclastic imagination, but the number of the darkest potential in our hearts".

This seems to describe Hunter Thompson's Sun-Neptune contact to perfection.
I do vaguely remember reading in vedic astrology about suicide. In vedic, the 3rd house is considered the person's own initiatives and the 8th is death - so a combination of these two in a malefic house with malefic aspects could indicate suicide - alongwith other indicators of depression and unhappiness.
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