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Fixed stars, asteroids and other cosmic objects For astrology talks on fixed stars, Chiron, Sedna, Eris or any other newly discovered or little known cosmic object.


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  #101  
Unread 10-14-2015, 01:52 AM
Kernowerno Kernowerno is offline
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by theV View Post
What do you want to know?
Hi, thanks for your interest
I’m trying to make sense of the true nature of a meeting and a short, somewhat chaotic and tumultuous ‘relationship’ - yeah I know.., "there's a shock", but bear with me. The synastry, and our natal charts reveal some interesting details, but for me the transits at the meeting time may be more revealing because of their accuracy and the way they seem to reinforce some of the elements in our natal charts and synastry. They include Black Moon Lillith, Lillith (1181), Vesta, Psyche, Juno and Chiron. To begin with, transit. BM Lillith was conjunct her natal moon and my natal Vesta (25’ & 33’ resp), and transit. Moon was conjunct my natal BM Lillith (50’), I guess a kind of double whammy. Considering both our natal Saturn/Mars oppositions and our natal Saturn/Venus afflictions (if you want to see the charts let me know), I’m curious about this apparent can of worms being opened, and the possibilities for personal resolve. Also, I'm interested in the differences between synastry and transits. I'm not sure where I got this, but I'm under the impression that transits are more an indication of temporary or 'passing' events, while synastry indicates more longer-term affiliations, which might help to explain the can of worms i.e. an opportunity to get a look at something that requires attention (as an individual, it looks like it's probably more 'eventful' for me than it is for them). I suppose what I'm trying to uncover is whether transiting asteroids accurately crossing key natal planets, points and asteroids at critical times could be the keys to unlocking less obvious, or perhaps even very deeply hidden aspects of individual karma, as well as the synastry. Although I don't want to go into too much detail in this post, this recent experience I've had (am having) appears to be highlighting the possibility, and I'd like to explore it while it's fresh, and so as not to waste an opportunity if one can be identified, while at the same time learning about the asteroids and their 'efficacy'.


Last edited by Kernowerno; 10-14-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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  #102  
Unread 10-14-2015, 10:07 AM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
Hi, thanks for your interest
I’m trying to make sense of the true nature of our meeting and the short, somewhat chaotic and tumultuous ‘relationship’. The synastry, and our natal charts reveal some interesting details, but for me the transits at the meeting time may be more revealing becasue of their accuracy and the way they seem to reinforce the natal elements. They include Black Moon Lillith, Lillith (1181), Vesta, Psyche, Juno and Chiron. To begin with, transit. BM Lillith was conjunct her natal moon and my natal Vesta (25’ & 33’ resp) and transit. Moon was conjunct my natal BM Lillith (50’). Considering both our natal Saturn/Mars oppositions and our natal Saturn/Venus afflictions, I’m curious about the purpose of opening such a can of worms when there seems no avenue to resolve it, or if there is any hint in my chart as to how to take the issue forward constructively. At the moment I'm stumped. Let me know if you'd like to see the charts.
Okey let us see the chart.
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  #103  
Unread 10-14-2015, 11:48 AM
Kernowerno Kernowerno is offline
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by theV View Post
Okey let us see the chart.
As you can see I've edited the original post to hopefully be a bit clearer. I'll include mine, theirs, meeting time and Davison.

note the transits on the charts (apart from the meeting chart itself) are for 00hrs on 31st (not 10pm 30th May 2015) so slight adjustment to be taken into account for moon etc.
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File Type: gif hers.gif (87.0 KB, 5 views)
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File Type: gif davison.gif (89.1 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Kernowerno; 10-14-2015 at 11:55 AM.
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theV (10-14-2015)
  #104  
Unread 10-14-2015, 12:57 PM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
As you can see I've edited the original post to hopefully be a bit clearer. I'll include mine, theirs, meeting time and Davison.

note the transits on the charts (apart from the meeting chart itself) are for 00hrs on 31st (not 10pm 30th May 2015) so slight adjustment to be taken into account for moon etc.
PLEASE READ ALL CAREFULLY!!!

Using the whole signs to explain the synastry. I see that most of your planets are falling in the 11th house and the 1st house of her her charts. To her there is a sense of friendship and familiarity. The 11th house is house of friendship and "amitié" . The relationship might bring her sense of joy, and enthusiasm-the eleventh house is the house of our capacity of joy- you are someone who could trust and confine. Wwith your Moon/Neptune/Ic falling in her 1st house it feels like a karmic relationship to both of you. There is a sense of familiarity, as the first house is the energy we are most comfortable with. So the way you expresses your emotion and yourself makes her comfortable. And the way she channel her energy to the world is comfortable to your family upbringing and background. To you, she is very alluring,mysterious and somehow seductive. Her whole signs eighth house falls in Gemini, she usually attracts the Gemini energies to her-btw read this insightful article http://sasstrology.com/2011/08/magne...ts-ruler.html- you are magnetized by her. She might represent the sexy pluto theme to you. Since you are a man, Venus and the moon describes your mate/partner, the good wife, but Lilith represents for a man the raw,sexual,dangerous, intense woman he fears or love. Your Lilith is falling in her first house. The way she expresses her personal image ties with your image of Lilith, she stimulate the alluring,seductive,mysterious,dangerous Lilith energy inside of you. She is strong turn on, strong sexual desire towards her. With the Axis squaring each other, there is karma and fate without doubt. Add to that, the node/asc/dsc configurations. Plus the Antix-vertex/node is conjunct your sun with Antiscia- I see fated relationship here-
HER EROS PARALLEL/CONJUNCT BY ANTISCIA YOUR PSYCHE i want to bold that because it is important to have Eros/Psyche they are dealmaker -soul mate-

Psyche in a woman's chart, represents her journey to seek true love, Psyche in myth went through a lot to be united with her true love Eros. It is good that you have your Sun,a masculine planet, in conjunct with her with her Psyche feminine asteroid. You touch her soul in a deep way, and represents some of her struggles to find true love. Her Eros conjunct your Psyche she is sexually attracted to you and also on the soul level,very lovely!!

Sappho is the asteroid of lesbians,same sex relationship and friendship opposite her sun which further strengthen the position of the 11th house.

If we use the whole signs system, the sun falls in the 11th house-the house of joy,happiness and friendship which is a good positions for the composite davison sun to fall in. I see there are a lot of bad aspect in davison. But the synastry is wonderful!!!
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  #105  
Unread 10-14-2015, 01:01 PM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

Btw I really dig this relationship. I feel a sense of karma and fate between you too. I would advise to give it a try, anyway Good Luck!!!!
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  #106  
Unread 10-14-2015, 07:58 PM
Kernowerno Kernowerno is offline
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Btw I really dig this relationship. I feel a sense of karma and fate between you too. I would advise to give it a try, anyway Good Luck!!!!
That there was a sense of fate between us was/is of no doubt.., to me. I sensed it very soon after meeting, (as did she, although she simply said in a surprised tone that she "felt very comfortable in my company" within about 20 mins of meeting), and the ease and familiarity between us was unlike anything I've experienced before. It was like two old friends coming together and carrying on where we left off. However, that didn't last very long before we began to display patterns (possibly also very old) which seemed to be revealing the mutual 'Father Wound'. She considers me too sensitive ( her my ) while I consider her too pushy, domineering and overbearing. I'm an artist and regard it a compliment that I'm considered 'sensitive'

Regarding your previous post, you've hit the nail on the head with the sexual magnetism. We both expressed, very soon after 'conjugation' that we had never known anyone as compatible as each other. She actually said to me on one occasion after a few weeks, in all sincerity, that "...although you annoy me sometimes, you've got a sexual hold over me now!". The Lillith element was certainly awakened in me. I felt that I had landed in sex heaven/hell, but the down side is that it was a bit too obsessive and overpowering. Our progressed charts (for the meeting day) show my her , and that is definitely how it has played out. I think the Lillith elements compounded the issue enormously, and it felt like a fatal attraction (bunny boiler, but I felt like the boiler, not her ).
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  #107  
Unread 10-14-2015, 09:19 PM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
That there was a sense of fate between us was/is of no doubt.., to me. I sensed it very soon after meeting, (as did she, although she simply said in a surprised tone that she "felt very comfortable in my company" within about 20 mins of meeting), and the ease and familiarity between us was unlike anything I've experienced before. It was like two old friends coming together and carrying on where we left off. However, that didn't last very long before we began to display patterns (possibly also very old) which seemed to be revealing the mutual 'Father Wound'. She considers me too sensitive ( her my ) while I consider her too pushy, domineering and overbearing. I'm an artist and regard it a compliment that I'm considered 'sensitive'

Regarding your previous post, you've hit the nail on the head with the sexual magnetism. We both expressed, very soon after 'conjugation' that we had never known anyone as compatible as each other. She actually said to me on one occasion after a few weeks, in all sincerity, that "...although you annoy me sometimes, you've got a sexual hold over me now!". The Lillith element was certainly awakened in me. I felt that I had landed in sex heaven/hell, but the down side is that it was a bit too obsessive and overpowering. Our progressed charts (for the meeting day) show my her , and that is definitely how it has played out. I think the Lillith elements compounded the issue enormously, and it felt like a fatal attraction (bunny boiler, but I felt like the boiler, not her ).
Totally Lilith man conjunct female ascendant saying!!
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  #108  
Unread 10-15-2015, 03:00 PM
Kernowerno Kernowerno is offline
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by theV View Post
Totally Lilith man conjunct female ascendant saying!!
You know I had completely overlooked that aspect. I had focused on the DM Lillith elements.

What I would like to get some insight into, because I can't get any objectivity on it, is how I can move forward constructively. I'm having trouble working out how this is 'good' for me. I guess I'm saying that I don't understand the karmic element on my side. I saw and felt the link, but soon realised that she wasn't 'into me' in the same way that I was into her. She saw me purely as a sex object, while I saw in her a 'wife', for want of a better expression. I've never been keen on the idea of marriage, but I also never expected to be so coldly viewed as nothing more than a sex object to any woman. Even though I was aware of the Transiting Neptune opposite my Pluto, almost exact, (not a good time to begin a long term relationship apparently), I dove in head first and felt sure it would 'go somewhere'. Maybe you can provide some insight.
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  #109  
Unread 10-15-2015, 04:36 PM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

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Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
You know I had completely overlooked that aspect. I had focused on the DM Lillith elements.

What I would like to get some insight into, because I can't get any objectivity on it, is how I can move forward constructively. I'm having trouble working out how this is 'good' for me. I guess I'm saying that I don't understand the karmic element on my side. I saw and felt the link, but soon realised that she wasn't 'into me' in the same way that I was into her. She saw me purely as a sex object, while I saw in her a 'wife', for want of a better expression. I've never been keen on the idea of marriage, but I also never expected to be so coldly viewed as nothing more than a sex object to any woman. Even though I was aware of the Transiting Neptune opposite my Pluto, almost exact, (not a good time to begin a long term relationship apparently), I dove in head first and felt sure it would 'go somewhere'. Maybe you can provide some insight.
Have you got my pms? We can discuss this on private before I take a leave for a week.
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  #110  
Unread 10-07-2021, 02:59 PM
Burgos16 Burgos16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post
Wescott has a page on Pallas but this quote is significant to your thoughts;

"Pallas is a strategy of presentation; it's had to take a great many variables into consideration in order to come up with a plan and effect that would win. The 'canniness' or resourcefulness that one develops in order to please the father becomes and ability to 'read' situations and people in adult life and adapt to the needs of the situation."

Pallas is in Aquarius in my 4th house and I've turned my people pleasing skills into cleaning people's home and businesses with great success. Pallas is not aspected by any of my natal planets but it's co-ruler Uranus is in my 9th house. Astrology is a passion for me. And even in my 60's I can still feel that pull to do things to gain my parents attention and respect.

Moondance
I’m going to check my chart for those aspects because I’ve done the same thing. I have turned cleaning homes into a successful business and honestly have been studying astrology for years.
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  #111  
Unread 11-20-2021, 02:39 PM
Humanitarian Humanitarian is offline
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Pallas is probably the most well placed body in my chart and I wonder if that has any positive effect on me or if asteroids even matter. There isn't much info on aspects to asteroids. But as I can see I have Pallas sextile Jupiter , trine Uranus, and semi-sextile moon. It is the only trine in my chart (other than vesta trine Juno, 2 other asteroids) and the only positive aspect to the moon and Jupiter, so I would hope Pallas acts as a saving grace for me. Does anyone else have aspects to asteroids?
Me here. I have:
Ceres trine Uranus
Ceres square Neptune
Pallas sextile Pluto
Vesta trine Pluto
Vesta trine Mercury
Juno conjunct Uranus(too wide so I don't count)
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  #112  
Unread 11-27-2021, 03:29 AM
Ronlof Ronlof is offline
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

I have been studying the movements of dwarf planet Ceres, and her asteroid children, namely the largest of the bunch, for several years now. Their aspects and retrogrades do matter and have implications in charts. Some may find there is no need to study them all or view them in particular situations. However, Ceres should be included in all charts in the same manner Pluto is included, and viewed just as much of a planet as Pluto - especially if Chiron is included. Not only is Ceres gravitationally rounded like Pluto, Ceres is closer to Earth than Pluto. Being gravitationally rounded is a significant achievement for an object and a qualification for it to be considered a planet. This is also why when Pluto was relabeled a “dwarf planet” that Ceres was also relabeled as such. Both are gravitationally rounded, but have not cleared their area of smaller objects. Additionally, if one were to compare the gravitational force Ceres exerts on Earth and the force Pluto exerts on Earth, Ceres’ relative size (Pluto is larger than Ceres, but further away) and proximity to Earth has her exert a comparable (if not slightly higher) gravitational force on Earth. I know this is astrology, and gravity is not necessarily the force observed, but this point is made to help show the necessity of Ceres being represented just as much as Pluto is.

Furthermore, if you are someone who includes Chiron in your charts, it makes even more sense to include Ceres. Chiron is not only smaller than Ceres, but also significantly further from Earth. Chiron is of the astrological class of objects known as Centaurs, which are essentially hybrids of asteroids and comets (fitting since centaurs are hybrids of humans and horses). Chiron is not even the largest of the Centaurs being significantly smaller than Chariklo, who is the largest of the known centaurs and not represented in charts nearly as much as Chiron. In mythology Chiron is Chariklo’s husband. The Centaurs are defined by their eccentric orbits that cross (link) the orbits of the outer plants all the way out to the Kuiper Belt (where Pluto, Eris, MakeMake, Haumea, etc. are located). Centaurs’ orbits suggest that they are transitory energy that we will eventually evolve beyond as they will either be ejected from our a Solar System or absorbed by other planets in the future. Astrologically, Centaurs link the planets who’s orbits they cross and represent the process through which the various energies are transmuted and integrated. In Chiron’s case it links the orbits of Saturn and Uranus and is integral in understanding the transmutational process of bringing one’s Uranian qualities into physical being (Saturn’s reality); this is where the theme of the “wounded healer” comes into play. There is a wound in your chart that needs to be healed (transformed/transmuted) and integrated into yourself as part of your growth. What many fail to realize when focusing on this wound is that Chiron returns at 50.71 years, shortly before the second Saturn return. Given Chiron’s location amongst the interpersonal and generational planets, the individual’s Chiron lessons are not only a hallmark of middle age, but also generational and interpersonal in nature. Considering Ceres’ location as the transition of the personal planets to the social/generational planets and an orbital period at 4.599 years, Cerean energy is far more of a fundamental aspect of one’s day to day personality and behavioral growth as one experiences 6.4 Ceres Returns in one Saturn cycle (29.447498 years). Unlike Chiron, Ceres’ orbit is not eccentric and is classified as a dwarf planet, which in astrological terms means little as the dwarf terminology is namely regarding the size and if Pluto still operates the same in charts, then Ceres does as well. Chiron is important especially when considering the relationship between one’s Saturn and Uranus placements, but Ceres needs to have greater representation and focus in charts as a position considered just as important as Pluto.

Several of her asteroid companions, Juno, Vesta, Pallas, Hygiea, and Astraea, should also be considered when one is seeking to differentiate more subtle aspects of behavior and personality. The Asteroid Belt as a whole assists with the differentiation of matter and the filters through which Mars’ energy is expressed as someone engages in relationship with others. As the separation between the personal planets and the social/interpersonal planets, Ceres and her companions are the area of differentiation of the self from others and how one interacts in various social situations. Ceres also represents how one cares for themselves and others (work routines, children, pets/small animals). Taurus, Cancer, and Virgo all have aspects of maternal energy to them.

Ceres (Demeter), as a mythological mourning mother archetype deals heavily with separation and loss between parent and child (which to some can also be the pain of losing a beloved pet), and any following depression that causes a disruption to ones routines (health, work, nutrition) and the physical results of such a situation. Isis, another mourning mother, also has associations with Virgo similar to those of Ceres.

Ceres’ next perihelion is December 6, 2022 while at 26° Virgo. This post was written and posted at Sun opposite Ceres retrograde (and Mercury/Vesta opposite Earth conjunct Ceres retrograde), the “Full Moon” of Ceres/Sun cycle - the midpoint of Ceres’ retrograde as the Last Quarter Virgo Moon begins.

Last edited by Ronlof; 11-27-2021 at 06:49 AM.
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  #113  
Unread 11-28-2021, 05:38 AM
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Re: Do asteroid aspects matter

Ronlof, thanks for your informative post.

I studied Ceres a lot a few years ago, both astrologically and mythologically. Anciently the goddess Ceres/Demeter was associated with Virgo. However, I couldn't get Ceres to work well as a house cusp ruler of Virgo.

I don't usually conflate signs and houses, so was less concerned with the 6th house matters of work and health, which were not Ceres' mythological attributes.

I didn't come to a firm conclusion about astrological Ceres, in part because the mythology and ancient worship of Ceres/Demeter extended way beyond the central myth of loss and redemption, in ways that are hard for a modern mentality to capture. Ceres was not merely the protagonist in a myth, but was the focus of a major ancient religion (the Eleusinian mysteries,) and a major women's religious festival related to her law-maker attributes. (the Thesmophoria.)

Experiencing a sacred quality to grain and to nature probably comes a bit closer to the ancient understanding of the goddess. Grain was sometimes called Ceres (or Demeter) in ways that hint at transubstantiation. (Cf. bread during communion becoming the body of Christ for the faithful.)

Unless or until we can get this sacred quality back, astrological Ceres may remain a cipher.
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Last edited by waybread; 11-28-2021 at 05:41 AM.
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