Are Chiron and Black Moon Lilith the same?

Kite

Well-known member
Hi Frisiangal,

I'm hoping to call on your expertise to read my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.

I really am not sure how to intepret these connections and am hoping your experience could shed some light.

Kite
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Kite said:
Hi Frisiangal,

I'm hoping to call on your expertise to read my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.

I really am not sure how to intepret these connections and am hoping your experience could shed some light.

Kite

Hi Kite,
Just to say I've seen this and will get back to you . I'm a bit pressed for time now and finding the right words is important.

C.
 

Empath

Well-known member
Oh boy... I never looked at Lilith before -- and I don't quite understand BML (black moon Lilith) and Dark moon Lilith... but I ran my chart through Astrodients again and found that Lilith sits at 8 deg 35 of Aquaius, conj, Chiron at 7deg02 Aq and my ascendent 6deg59 Aq -- all forming the first arm of a fixed grand cross (Uranus 6deg59 Leo, Moon 4deg22 Taurus, Neptune 1deg02 Scorpio).

Ayiyiyi! I've had some extraordinary physical manifestations in the past two years -- briefly (extreme psoriasis causing major hair loss, nail distortion, psoriasis on th soles of my feet, red skin -- responding well to homeopathy; then developed a strange lung thing last August, still undiagnosed)
How does Lilith fit in with all of this?

It seems that the deeper I go in astrology... the deeper I get....
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Kite said:
,
my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.

Hi Kite,
I have decided to use simple astrological signatures rather than go into deep depths :wink: without knowing the other themes in the chart that add their focus to the whole. With Aquarius rising and Uranus in the opposing sign, it's possible that you could associate the BML-CH conjunction as part of that. I wonder if you will experience that there can be a difference.

Aquarius is the freedom of spirit of, and through independent thought.
12th house is the intangibility of, and release from influence physical matter.
Chiron is realisation of the inner pain as a result of physical events.
BML *appears* ( read that in several ways!) to relate to non-existence and/or non- manifestation of a first nature ACTIVE FELING, as a result of denial by self.
Uranus is the power of reform through the changing of out-dated modes.
Leo is individual Self's motivation, as expressed through the Sun.
6th house is employment of Self, 'working' upon one's self perfection; house of imperfection of self = physical complaint.

Aquarius rising would provide the idea of someone who *IS* ( 1st house 'I am') a totally independent person, free as a bird, and in complete ease of thought, mind, spirit and soul. But, IMO, if the function of Uranus does not unchain the individual from all links with events that keep one tied to the physical past, as per Saturn, Aquarius rising cannot indicate one who is totally free. Uranus in Leo is retrograde in a FIXED sign. Fixed patterns of expression have difficulty separating, breaking down and re-forming themselves into something else that is not 'self-centred'. The 6th house is under the horizon; it is still a personal house, dealing with employment of Self's possibilities and not with or of others. What can a person experience when the personal ideas are not greeted with the same enthusiasm? We all know what happens with 6th house planets if not used in the manner of their intent. Uranus might work inwards and show itself as a stress, strain and breakdown factor, let alone rhythmic disturbances around the heart region, a hernia, or circulation problems :wink:

This is what I consider BML to signify in the aspect mentioned.
There is a deep-seated longing to break free of old patterns and FEEL the total freedom and independence of thought that Aquarius offers, no matter what other people say, do, think or feel, rather than remain dependent upon them. BML appears to feel the most comfortable in Uranus because, in its disconnection with the automatic feeling response, as per Moon, it can totally relate to Aquarius's detachment from emotional bonding and does not, therefore, have to act other than it is in order to feel accepted by anyone, feel part of something. BML in Aquarius does not feel this dire need to belong anywhere. It breaks free to feel free. In the 12th house there is the lesson regarding submission. BML has the greatest difficulty submitting to anyone or anything.
Chiron in Aquarius, however, experiences the inner pain of BEING different to everyone else, of being separated from them in some way, yet this major step towards individuality can be a reason for personal suffering if in the 12th house. BML conjunct Chiron can then submit to this pain, turn against everything Aquarius stands for. It takes on a 12th house guise, plays a role at which it is expert, in the form of the disgraced and abandoned outcast, which create the self-inflicted demons and gives them a reality in the form of regrets and denials that this and that never happened and how things could have been but never were, blaming itself for events that occured...or that didn't. The two together may choose a way of escaping or fleeing the pain experienced and have nothing to do with anyone close, living as a hermit or recluse. This BML doesn't allow itself to see that such would have kept it in bondage to a particular way of life instead of releasing it from it to become the individual it wants to be.

I was taught that Moon is the habitual of what one was, Ascendant rising is how one is now in order to become what the Sun wants to be:)

Once Chiron brings BML's pain to the surface through the opposing sign Leo, and the individual accepts and undergoes the healing process, Uranus can provide the change that is necessary to move forward into a future released of the past. Neptune and Pluto do their bit as well in bringing about the transition and transformation. It's then that the 'higher' qualities within BML and Chiron, that were always there from the beginning, manifest. In true 12th house fashion they can work their special kind of magic.

Hope this may have rung some bells.

C.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Empath said:
Oh boy... I never looked at Lilith before -- and I don't quite understand BML (black moon Lilith) and Dark moon Lilith... but I ran my chart through Astrodients again and found that Lilith sits at 8 deg 35 of Aquaius, conj, Chiron at 7deg02 Aq and my ascendent 6deg59 Aq -- all forming the first arm of a fixed grand cross (Uranus 6deg59 Leo, Moon 4deg22 Taurus, Neptune 1deg02 Scorpio).

You might 'feel' something of what was written to Kite, except what he may have kept locked inside, you could outwardly show by 'letting it all hang out'.

Ayiyiyi! I've had some extraordinary physical manifestations in the past two years -- briefly (extreme psoriasis causing major hair loss, nail distortion, psoriasis on th soles of my feet, red skin -- responding well to homeopathy; then developed a strange lung thing last August, still undiagnosed)
How does Lilith fit in with all of this?

I must admit that BML's links to planets/signs associated with the manifestation of a physical dis-ease are becoming too general to be ignored !

Psoriasis, the hair, the nails are all associated with Saturn/Capricorn. Psychosomatically, a 'father' or 'authority' thing.
Lung complaints can be found in Mercury/Gemini....not speaking what's on your mind.
Feet are ruled by Pisces/Neptune.
Ýour chart shows Sun-Mercury applying to Saturn. I guess the question is....what is it you're up against when wanting to speak your mind?

It seems that the deeper I go in astrology... the deeper I get....

I know what you mean. After 25 years, I'm on page 2 of "How Astrology Works" :lol:

F.
 

Kite

Well-known member
Hope this may have rung some bells.

Very much so Frisiangal.

In true 12th house fashion they can work their special kind of magic.

What kind of magic are you suggesting? Chiron healing perhaps but what would a positive functioning BML add to the equation?

Thanks so much Frisiangal for your time and insights on this.

Kite
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Kite said:
In true 12th house fashion they can work their special kind of magic.

What kind of magic are you suggesting? Chiron healing perhaps but what would a positive functioning BML add to the equation?

Kite

I always have to smile when people ask what a positive functioning of BML can be, as if they consider the natural nature they, themselves, oppress and do not acknowledge as existing, is a negative feature of Lilith's point :wink: Or, that perhaps I carry a supply of ready computed answers, which I don't.

Why do you ask me what kind of magic to suggest? Do you still not allow yourself to admit to and express the 'gut feeling' you know to have, with which you are born?
Just thoughts but:
Any expression of magic could be in knowing and accepting that one IS allowed to feel different than the herd without being labelled a misfit. Knowing that one will not and never will know what it is to be personally special, as per Leo. But one doesn't really care about it because the feeling exists that there is something very special within that can be offered willingly to help and aid all who are in need of it (12th house). BML through Uranus, on an everyday level, can offer the natural genial and/or intellectual thought, whether that's through the expression of natural law physics, technology, computer software, inter-social and humanistic relationships and experiences, etc.. On the 12th house spiritual level it could be the mind-tapping into the intangible and/or celestial realms. Knowing how far to go, when to stop, and giving structure to intangible mental thought can be given by aspects to Saturn.

What I have noticed with a number of 12th house BML's.....myself included until a few years back.... is that they FEEL they are WRONG if they, for want of a better word, 'test' God, the Creator, Higher Guidance, the Cosmic Universe, or whatever one's self associates with. They hold back on that which they FEEL because such actions, thoughts and feelings would , in effect, create a state of so-called 'punishable hubris' or even 'sin'. Maybe it's the effect of Saturn that keeps people bound to specific ideas. But if BML constitutes towards the missing piece of life's puzzle longing to surface, it must surely correlate to accepting the natural quality within one's nature, which is RIGHT, whatever this may mean to 'all-knowing' Aquarius. In the 12th house, however, this would create inner humility about one's natural quality rather than hubris.


No definites, Kite. You may feel nothing.....and that's all-right too :!: :)

F.
 

Kite

Well-known member
Frisiangal,

I have to say that BML is beginning to emerge in my conciousness as the Wicked Witch of the West from the Wizard of Oz. She is green with envy to live in someone else's shoes.

Indeed I have been envious of those people who can feel the specialness that Leo offers. I've been on a quest to be that. I've tried to find a brain, a heart, and courage - all the qualities the specical Leo would possess. I even went on a quest using Chiron to get over the rainbow to heal the hurt of being alone, not belonging and having my animal nature captured and restricted by society's rigid moral structure.

It was only through compassion that I am to dissolve the envy by knowing it's not "out there" but inside where's there's no place like home. The magic you speak of is indeed getting one's sense of self from the inside out. It might not be as ego -driven but it is geniune in it's expression and understanding - not like the phoney false self that used to trick and use smoke and mirrors to survive.

Oh what a world.

I am amazed by your insights into this area F. You need to write a book on this.

Kite
 

Kite

Well-known member
Here's another interpretation of this famous classic I found at Wizard. See if you can pick up the symbols of Lilith and Chiron.


I have to add that this story works in Kabbalah language and symbols as well. The Emerald City for one thing is a the shape of the middle potion of the Tree of Life (emerald shape) with Tipheret in the middle which means "Beauty" in Hebrew. It is also the meeting place of the divine self with animal self. I know I always wondered why they went to the beauty parlor as soon as they got to the Emerald City.

Kite

[text deleted which can be found in the link. Deleted because of copyright breach.]
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Kite said:
Frisiangal,

I have to say that BML is beginning to emerge in my conciousness as the Wicked Witch of the West from the Wizard of Oz. She is green with envy to live in someone else's shoes.

Indeed I have been envious of those people who can feel the specialness that Leo offers. I've been on a quest to be that. I've tried to find a brain, a heart, and courage - all the qualities the specical Leo would possess.

A GOOD witch too, Kite, if, as your sec. progr. Sun conjoining Chiron-BML in your chart, you have finally admitted and brought the personal demons that haunted you to the surface and can now see them for what they are....false images of that which never was that you have allowed to torment you for too long. Freeing yourself of the ghosts in the shadows allows you to be the person you truly are and allow your hidden feelings of human compassion to work in the way it should.

I even went on a quest using Chiron to get over the rainbow to heal the hurt of being alone, not belonging and having my animal nature captured and restricted by society's rigid moral structure
.

That's quite a profound statement coming from a Sagittarius Sun, the dual sign that rises from the animal to the spiritual state in itself :wink:

It was only through compassion that I am to dissolve the envy by knowing it's not "out there" but inside where's there's no place like home. The magic you speak of is indeed getting one's sense of self from the inside out. It might not be as ego -driven but it is geniune in it's expression and understanding - not like the phoney false self that used to trick and use smoke and mirrors to survive.

The genuine article. Wouldn't you say that's a rather pleasing Aquarius quality to admit (to) in life?

Oh what a world.

I am amazed by your insights into this area F. You need to write a book on this.

It's nothing special, Kite. Just observation by finally using the BML in Virgo I was born with :mrgreen:
The book????? Will it (N)ever find form with Mercury trine BML? I'm good at handing out faith, but my 9th house Self still needs to find it and believe in me ! Maybe once I've completed following the BML cycle which I began with transiting BML in Sagittarius. A couple of more years to go.

F.
 
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