Besieged and aided planets

According to most sources I’ve read, a besieged planet is a planet separating from one malefic and right after that applying to another malefic. The malefics are Mars and Saturn. A planet can be positively besieged (or aided, as some sources say) when it is separating from one benefic and applying to another, benefics being Venus and Jupiter. It seems like conjunctions can work in both cases, squares and oppositions work for besieged planets and sextiles and trines work for aided planets.

So what do you think? Discuss!

From my view of your chart, the besiegement is mitigated by an elevated in sect Cancer Moon aspecting your Taurus Venus so closely. Better still, is that Venus receives Moon really well and the Moon doesn't mind Venus as she is the day time trip ruler for water (Dorothean triplicities). Your Venus has a lot of help, and it's quite strong in that she is angular and in her domicile. But affliction is affliction, so even though it might nor be a pure beseigement, I'd still expect to see some difficulties around Venusian areas, for e.g. very tumultuous and difficult romantic partnerships (all due to Venus' natural signature and her placement in the 7th), maybe even violent.

I happen to have an aided planet in my chart, which is my out of sect malefic Mars (located in the 1st). It's between Jupiter and Venus with a partile sextile coming from the Moon (which I see as a benefic influence). What this seems to do is smooth out my Mars' manifestation and make it work for me. I have a good control of my temper, I have decent physical stamina even when I'm not actively training, I go my own way but have the ability to work with others cooperatively, and all the Martial type ailments have been very benign imo. The most I've gotten was being impaled by a nail when I was about 9 (on the thigh too... Mars in Sagittarius) and being hospitalized with a head injury at 2 (ASC would have progressed to natal Mars about that time), no broken bones,but a lot of nicks and bruises over the years. I'm thinking with the timbre of my chart that I would have had a lot more serious injuries but alas I think being "civilised" by the benefics help.

Besieged and Aided Houses would seem more to the point.

david starling said:

Besieged and Aided Houses would seem more to the point.

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Could you explain what you mean?

tripleooo said:

Could you explain what you mean? If my Venus is besieged in the 7th house (or 8th, as you wish), then this house is besieged? Or...

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I believe he's saying that if Venus is in the 1st, 8th,10th, or 11th house, then it would be besieged, but if it's in the 2nd, 4th, 7th, or 12th; it would be aided. But I could be wrong.

Hermeshadesluna said:

I believe he's saying that if Venus is in the 1st, 8th,10th, or 11th house, then it would be besieged, but if it's in the 2nd, 4th, 7th, or 12th; it would be aided. But I could be wrong.

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Hm, interesting. Where is this concept used? And what is its reasoning? I'm completely unfamiliar with it...

tripleooo said:

Hm, interesting. Where is this concept used? And what is its reasoning? I'm completely unfamiliar with it...

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The concept is pretty new to me also, It seems that it's based off of traditional house rulerships and signs of essential dignities. So therefore Venus would be in detriment in the 1st and 8th since they are ruled by mars, and in fall in the 10th and 11th since they are ruled by Saturn, in domicile in the 2nd and 7th since they are ruled by Venus, aided in 4th since it's ruled by the moon, and exalted in the 12th since it's ruled by Jupiter But I could be wrong there also.

david starling said:

Besieged and Aided Houses would seem more to the point.

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I've not seen this in the traditional literature, David. Could you cite some sources please?

Hermeshadesluna said:

The concept is pretty new to me also, It seems that it's based off of traditional house rulerships and signs of essential dignities. So therefore Venus would be in detriment in the 1st and 8th since they are ruled by mars, and in fall in the 10th and 11th since they are ruled by Saturn, in domicile in the 2nd and 7th since they are ruled by Venus, aided in 4th since it's ruled by the moon, and exalted in the 12th since it's ruled by Jupiter But I could be wrong there also.

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No, sorry. If the first house is Aries or Scorpio, then the first house is ruled by Mars. If the first house is anything else, it's ruled by the planet that rules that sign. This goes for all the other houses, too.

Hermeshadesluna said:

The concept is pretty new to me also, It seems that it's based off of traditional house rulerships and signs of essential dignities. So therefore Venus would be in detriment in the 1st and 8th since they are ruled by mars, and in fall in the 10th and 11th since they are ruled by Saturn, in domicile in the 2nd and 7th since they are ruled by Venus, aided in 4th since it's ruled by the moon, and exalted in the 12th since it's ruled by Jupiter But I could be wrong there also.

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Yeah, I got the idea that the houses you chose were related to dignities/debilities, but I was interested why you pointed out the 4th, 10th and 11th houses... While I don't agree with this concept, I understand where you're coming from. In case you haven't seen it, you can find something useful in this thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101862 Basically this sign-house conflation is a fairly recent invention, traditionally the 2nd, 7th and 12th houses have never been associated with Venus. The 5th house was! It is Venus' house of joy. However, if you compare it to Leo, Leo is not associated with Venus... It's a barren sign. So yeah, it's all complicated.

tripleooo said:

Yeah, I got the idea that the houses you chose were related to dignities/debilities, but I was interested why you pointed out the 4th, 10th and 11th houses... While I don't agree with this concept, I understand where you're coming from. In case you haven't seen it, you can find something useful in this thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101862 Basically this sign-house conflation is a fairly recent invention, traditionally the 2nd, 7th and 12th houses have never been associated with Venus. The 5th house was! It is Venus' house of joy. However, if you compare it to Leo, Leo is not associated with Venus... It's a barren sign. So yeah, it's all complicated.

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Yeah, I'm getting modern mixed up with traditional techniques in some areas😁

Oddity said:

No, sorry. If the first house is Aries or Scorpio, then the first house is ruled by Mars. If the first house is anything else, it's ruled by the planet that rules that sign. This goes for all the other houses, too.

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Thanks for the clarification!👍

Oddity said:

I've not seen this in the traditional literature, David. Could you cite some sources please?

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You're right. I wasn't clear on what I meant. Traditionally, a Planet rules the House occupied by the Sign that Planet rules. So, how much does being ruled by a Besieged-planet AFFECT the area of life represented by that House, other factors aside? Does it affect only the strength of rulership, or the quality of rulership as well?

I suggest that even in pure traditional (Western) astrology, the answer to that question depends upon the net totality of indications connected with that planet, and the condition of a planet being besieged or fortitified is only such indication.

(in Modernist astrology this matter is called "containment", and there is an excellent book available on this subject, but the book is written from the Modernist perspective and so I shall not quote it here in the traditionalist forum)

dr. farr said:

I suggest that even in pure traditional (Western) astrology, the answer to that question depends upon the net totality of indications connected with that planet, and the condition of a planet being besieged or fortitified is only such indication.

(in Modernist astrology this matter is called "containment", and there is an excellent book available on this subject, but the book is written from the Modernist perspective and so I shall not quote it here in the traditionalist forum)

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Supposing Saturn were Besieged by Jupiter and Venus. Would Saturn's Malefic nature be modified, or merely weakened in its effects, all other factors being equal?

Jupiter can take away some of Saturn's malice. Venus really can't. Also, it depends on who's overcoming, or - who's first. Put Jupiter in Libra in 2, and Saturn in Sag in 4. In that case, Jupiter overcomes, plus mutual reception, so Saturn isn't as bad as he might be, especially in a day chart.

If it's the other way around, with Saturn in Libra and Jupiter in Sag, then Saturn would rule the sextile, and bring some severity to Jupiter - worse at night, but again, with the reception between the two, not as bad as it might otherwise be.

Both planets will still affect each other, this is just a method of determining which is stronger - reception, overcoming, and who can bonify or afflict whom.

Saturn is going to corrupt Venus either way, and if Venus is overcoming in the chart, then it will hurt Saturn, too. Worse these days with Venus in Aries, which is her detriment, as well as Saturn's fall (ouch), so that's going to be nasty. Many troubles with women there no matter how you dice it.

With Jupiter Retrograde in Libra, currently in Opposition to Venus in Aries, AND Mars in Gemini Trine Jupiter, how would you describe this situation?

david starling said:

Supposing Saturn were Besieged by Jupiter and Venus. Would Saturn's Malefic nature be modified, or merely weakened in its effects, all other factors being equal?

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If Saturn were FORTIFIED by Jupiter and Venus, then Saturn's benefic qualities would come to the fore (all other factors being equal) However, if both Venus and Jupiter were detrimented, ie turned into functional malefics, then they would in fact BESIEGE Saturn and would act to enhance Saturn's malefic qualities; the term besiege (as used by the oldtime authors) indicates malefic influences-they used the term FORTIFY for benefic containment (the word-containment-is used in Modernist astrology for placement of a planet, Lot, lunar Node or specific degree, between 2 other planets, one on each side)

dr. farr said:

If Saturn were FORTIFIED by Jupiter and Venus, then Saturn's benefic qualities would come to the fore (all other factors being equal) However, if both Venus and Jupiter were detrimented, ie turned into functional malefics, then they would in fact BESIEGE Saturn and would act to enhance Saturn's malefic qualities; the term besiege (as used by the oldtime authors) indicates malefic influences-they used the term FORTIFY for benefic containment (the word-containment-is used in Modernist astrology for placement of a planet, Lot, lunar Node or specific degree, between 2 other planets, one on each side)

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"Functional malefics" is an interesting description for detrimented Planets. I just thought of them as weak influences. What factors would cause Jupiter to be in that category? Jupiter in Gemini, for example?

asc venus own libra 7th with sat, artistic aptitudes,
craves for affection but difficulty manifesting,
mutual health issues in marriage/relationship,
sat-mars opp health-relationship under struggle/stress,

while may have entrepreneurial aptitude, though calling for hard work;
may have technical-mechanical-mechatronics aptitudes,
and gains thereby, placed 11th from moon
and venus 7th own house for business/vocation,
while lords 4/1 are conjunct,
making the sat-venus conj artistically creative and prosperous.
may have an artistic home away from home/motherland;

mars-venus lords 1/7 quadrantsover scorpio-taurus
tending to mere attractions in a relationship,
challenge in the relationship being in opp and at conflict;
further aided by the mars-sat opp.


sat aspecting own acq 4th, protective of property matters,
but may not be good for health of mother.
mars aspects enemy sign acq 4th impacting negatively/stress.

mars own scorpio first, secretive, sentimental, research-occult aptitudes,
aptitude for mining-metallurgy, growth through own merit,
angry temperament, fire injury;


leo-sun inimical for libra asc, stress-delays in career,
jup trine leo protective/supportive;
inimical sun aries 5th house, stress-delays in
luck-education-romance-children-ministerial position,
fall in position placed 8th from the 10th;

mer debilated pisces 5th, emotional and confused, mer lord 8th too,
elevated aspect over virgo 11th protecting income-speculatory gains,
jupiter lord 5th sq moon in aries, cancelling the debilation,
gradual pace of growth in luck-education-position;


venus own taurus 7th quadrant,
growth-riches through artistic pursuits;
sat-venus artistic aptitudes,
but affecting mutual affection and health in marriage,
mars-venus in mutual attraction,
but sat-mars opp posing stress-struggle in relationship,
though may have tech-entrepreneurial aptitudes etc.


hope the above enables pick relevant points of interest,
may share ground feedbacks and debate further,

best regards,

kshantaram