You were always who you were

I think it's common, always to believe, that, yes, in life, there is karma, there is laws.

At the soul level, we're all human, bound to mistakes, but I think if anything is important, it's remainining completely true to yourself. How you treat people says something about you; how they treat you says something about them.

I think at the heart level, we can be monsters, but I think we can also be the projection of lessons to teach others. I do not think we always live on top; we can hit bottom, but the bottom has so much to teach the reach the expensive middle point of true real authentic success. The Rich save, for instance.

I do not think we should be really ashamed however, or conform to the laws of how men should truly behave. I think we all do hold a individuality that teaches, it does not destroy. If you weren't true to yourself, it does destroy.

I think something to keep in mind about astrology is that, whilst it is many scrolls of lessons to learn, you get it easy but then it gets rockier. I think we should not fear death, as in, who we are. Even if you feel, your chart beckons for something, if you do not judge and you act against another, that is saying something of your instincts that you should know about. They're not good for you. The heart knows best.

Sometimes, the heart can drive us into situations of unbelievable despair for ourselves and others, but to fake it, is to live a existence of emptiness and despair.

I'm saying, despite what astrology says, despite what people thinks, even if it means death: 'Be who you really are, access your higher self, do things sometimes that are you that you know will be stupid as hell to do, but just do it, because inside your heart is telling you to do it. Live true to yourself.'

I think this is where the best stuntmen come from, the best actors, but also the best people, who live within the realms of their dreams and a existence of the heart, where, if they weren't in the heart, their ideas, creativity and imagination is empty.

Bradders said:

I think it's common, always to believe, that, yes, in life, there is karma, there is laws.

At the soul level, we're all human, bound to mistakes, but I think if anything is important, it's remainining completely true to yourself. How you treat people says something about you; how they treat you says something about them.

I think at the heart level, we can be monsters, but I think we can also be the projection of lessons to teach others. I do not think we always live on top; we can hit bottom, but the bottom has so much to teach the reach the expensive middle point of true real authentic success. The Rich save, for instance.

I do not think we should be really ashamed however, or conform to the laws of how men should truly behave. I think we all do hold a individuality that teaches, it does not destroy. If you weren't true to yourself, it does destroy.

I think something to keep in mind about astrology is that, whilst it is many scrolls of lessons to learn, you get it easy but then it gets rockier. I think we should not fear death, as in, who we are. Even if you feel, your chart beckons for something, if you do not judge and you act against another, that is saying something of your instincts that you should know about. They're not good for you. The heart knows best.

Sometimes, the heart can drive us into situations of unbelievable despair for ourselves and others, but to fake it, is to live a existence of emptiness and despair.

I'm saying, despite what astrology says, despite what people thinks, even if it means death: 'Be who you really are, access your higher self, do things sometimes that are you that you know will be stupid as hell to do, but just do it, because inside your heart is telling you to do it. Live true to yourself.'

I think this is where the best stuntmen come from, the best actors, but also the best people, who live within the realms of their dreams and a existence of the heart, where, if they weren't in the heart, their ideas, creativity and imagination is empty.

Click to expand...

This is a beautiful idea, Bradders, but I'm trying to find a way to incorporate it into a discussion about traditional astrology methods. Perhaps this would be best placed in the General Chat or Spiritual forums?

I don't think this belongs in traditional astrology. To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

If you can't see it with the naked eye, then it doesn't exist in the cosmos, I think.

Its a valid way of thinking about astrology, I can see; its not my way, but still I can see its validity.

Zarathu said:

I don't think this belongs in traditional astrology. To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

If you can't see it with the naked eye, then it doesn't exist in the cosmos, I think.

Its a valid way of thinking about astrology, I can see; its not my way, but still I can see its validity.

Click to expand...

Zarathu, I think I see it from a different perspective. Traditional astrology didn't stop looking at new things when Lilly died. Rather, the "neo-traditionalists" said hey, wait, hold up. What we are doing is great for the psychological aspect, but isn't there a reason astrology has endured for so long? Why? What started this? What did the old (as in thousands of years older than Lilly) masters have to say, and why? How is it that we can ask a question, cast a chart, and get a valid response? How do we use astrology to actually predict the future? Is there something that we are currently missing?

Mucho thanks go out to the founders of Project Hindsight, who have been, and by extension continue to translate the works and wisdom of the ancients. Who knows if Astrology arrived to humanity in whole cloth, as legend would tell, or if it came about some other way...much the same as different civilizations were able to build or construct pyramids in similar fashion and yet had no recorded contact with each other.

I think that we can all agree though...what is past is prologue.


As to what is visible to the naked eye...um, I think we may be forgetting that ancients worked with much that was not visible to the naked eye..namely points, like the um...ASC? Lots? Lots of lots going on there. Profections and Primary and Secondary (converse) directing of the ASC and the planets and Solar Revolutions...and I have yet to explore Lunar Mansions and the 129 system and the Nine Years of the Moon....

It's just that...there is comfort in knowing that the Universe is unfolding exactly as it should. I was and am all for free will, but that leaves a lot (no pun intended) to be desired when stuff hits the fan...and cannot possibly account for the idea that horary, when done correctly, works.

For me, there came a point when I could psychoanalyze myself to death, but at the root of it I wanted and expected astrology to work. Because Prescience is Useful.

tsmall said:

It's just that...there is comfort in knowing that the Universe is unfolding exactly as it should.

Click to expand...

This. I 100% agree. Determinism is nice. Whether it's god or another universe or something else, our reality must have a cause, and therefore everything that happens in our reality follows a chain back to that cause, and must be caused by something else that was also caused. Chaos exists but is also caused. The fact that even the randomness that affects us is not truly random is immensly reassuring.

What if the stars are neurons in the brain of the universe/god? What if our entire universe is one neuron, firing signals out through itself to other universes? How does our consciousness relate to the Universal Consciousness? Is reality god dreaming itself into existence? Are we lucidity to it?

Everything has a cause, a source, a reason, a meaning. To ignore this is folly. Our free will is only as free as we imagine it to be. This does not absolve responsibility, rather it gives us greater responsibily for our lives, our world, our reality. Embrace fate and laugh at it on the way down.

Zarathu said:

I don't think this belongs in traditional astrology.

Click to expand...

I agree....I'm not really sure there is a place on the forum for it.

Zarathu said:

To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

Click to expand...

Okay.

Maybe you can tell us how many new notes have been added to the musical scale since the creation of music.

I don't think anyone would say music stopped looking at new things when Mozart died.

Zarathu said:

If you can't see it with the naked eye, then it doesn't exist in the cosmos, I think.

Click to expand...

Is that what you think?

Well, that would explain a lot.

We use 5 Planets, Sun & Moon and have uncanny accuracy, with detail.

Since adding the 3 Outer Planets, has the accuracy of Modern Astrology improved? No. Even more embarrassing, in addition to the 3 Outer Planets, they've added the "Centaurs", minor Planets, planetoids --- even hypothetical Planets that don't even exist --- and on top of that 30,000 asteroids....and accuracy hasn't improved one bit. In fact, it's decreased.

That's the Great Irony.

If you go back and read ancient texts, and it doesn't matter if you're reading a Sumerian codex from 5,000 BCE or Bonatti, the terms used are the same: Casting Rays and Casting Light.

The five terrestrial Planets Mercury through Saturn really do Cast Rays.

That's not speculation or conjecture or fantasy, it's proven scientific fact as stated by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, numerous university science and engineering departments and US Army radio communication technical and field manuals (and I sure field and technical manuals for communications from the other branch services as well).

These "Rays" are electromagnetic radiation, and the alignment of the 5 terrestrial Planets in sextile or trine, or in square/opposition enhances or degrades the performance of electromagnetic bands on Earth ranging from the Microwave Band, through the Radar Band, through the Short Wave, AM, VHF/UHF and FM Bands.

That's not speculation, that's peer-reviewed scientific data published in professional journals.

Every time you pick up your portable phone, that's 800 Mhz or 900 Mhz radio waves going through your skull into your brain. Every time you put your cell-phone to your ear, that's electromagnetic radiation pulsing through your brain. Sitting in your car with the radio on....same thing. Sitting in a Wi-Fi hot-spot....same-same.

You claimed to have done counseling for 40 years, and you haven't noticed that as the use of electromagnetic personal devices has become pervasive in the US, that you have had increased violence, increases in the number of mental disorders, and then alleged increases in autism?

I'm not saying there's definitely a connection, but there certainly appears to be. Don't count on anyone doing anything about it if there is......those people are just sacrifices the Technology God demanded.

While the Sun (and Stars) Cast Light, the five terrestrial Planets don't. However, they do reflect light.

Maybe ancient people didn't have the level of understanding that we do, but they certainly knew what was happening, and phrased it ways they could understand.

Anyway, it's just math.....I don't have to prove a near weightless body like an Asteroid which doesn't Cast Light or Rays affects people, rather the burden of proof is on you all to prove that it does......and mathematically.....scientifically.... you cannot.

So it's not what we can see, rather it's what we know -- through science and math --- that affects us.

eternalautumn said:

This. I 100% agree. Determinism is nice. Whether it's god or another universe or something else, our reality must have a cause, and therefore everything that happens in our reality follows a chain back to that cause, and must be caused by something else that was also caused. Chaos exists but is also caused. The fact that even the randomness that affects us is not truly random is immensly reassuring.

What if the stars are neurons in the brain of the universe/god? What if our entire universe is one neuron, firing signals out through itself to other universes? How does our consciousness relate to the Universal Consciousness? Is reality god dreaming itself into existence? Are we lucidity to it?

Everything has a cause, a source, a reason, a meaning. To ignore this is folly. Our free will is only as free as we imagine it to be. This does not absolve responsibility, rather it gives us greater responsibily for our lives, our world, our reality. Embrace fate and laugh at it on the way down.

Click to expand...

That's excellent.

I know a lot of people cannot accept Determinism, but those people aren't living in Reality™.

Death is the ultimate form of Determinism.

So we all should all just give up....go sit in a corner and sulk?

We could do that....or we could struggle against the odds.

It's the struggle that defines us.

BobZemco said:

I agree....I'm not really sure there is a place on the forum for it.



Okay.

Maybe you can tell us how many new notes have been added to the musical scale since the creation of music.

I don't think anyone would say music stopped looking at new things when Mozart died.



Is that what you think........

Click to expand...

Every time someone disagrees with you it turns into a long drawn out attack by you on them. And in doing so, you completely hijack the post. You don't start your own posts to do these attacks, you hi-jack some other poster's question. In this case, Bradders.

There is no point arguing with you about these points because you have a closed mind. Many people have tried, but its just endless. And you will respond with pages and pages and pages of listings of STUFF, of which much of it is just ravings, on and on and on. Since you have not studied any of the things you are raving about, its a worthless round and round and round.

I simply disagree with you, but I'm not willing to engage in one of these endless LINE BY LINE debates with you like some others do. And when questions are actually asked of you, you only rarely bother to give answers. We just get more and more and more endless lines of "stuff".

And if the round and round stuff doesn't work, then you start in on the personal insults. And then moderation, which has enough to do, has to go over your endless post line by line to remove your insults.

Discussion with you, Bob Zemco, is pretty much one-sided. Your view is basically: "If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you, and then I start calling you names." And you do, over and over and over.

I don't need that. I've been a successful astrologer for many many years, and have been able to do all the things using Modern Astrology that you say can't be done. I don't need YOU to validate me, nor are you able to invalidate my opinion with your endless endless recitations.

I do my best to assist people with astrology both on my website and here. I'm not here to prove that my way of doing astrology is better than everyone else in the world. I'm only here to help people with questions about their lives or about how to do MODERN ASTROLOGY.

BobZemco said:

I know a lot of people cannot accept Determinism, but those people aren't living in Reality™.

Death is the ultimate form of Determinism.

So we all should all just give up....go sit in a corner and sulk?

We could do that....or we could struggle against the odds.

It's the struggle that defines us.

Click to expand...

It's comforting to know with reasonable certainty that death is nothingness, void, the same as before we are born, womb to womb, grave to grave. It's also comforting that our atoms continue to exist, being reborn, recycled, into new life, new form, and that the matter in our universe is a product of the stars.

Our struggle to understand the immense immeasurable complexity of life is one of our most redeeming qualities, but it is also one of our greatest undoings. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. The more that is brought to light, the more that is hidden by shadow. The invisible, the unspoken, the potential, the implied, the Mystery, is the holiest of holies and deserving of our worship. Balance is key. We use astrology to glimpse the Divine Mind for guidance. As above, so below.

Zarathu said:

Every time someone disagrees with you it turns into a long drawn out attack by you on them. And in doing so, you completely hijack the post. You don't start your own posts to do these attacks, you hi-jack some other poster's question. In this case, Bradders.

There is no point arguing with you about these points because you have a closed mind. Many people have tried, but its just endless. And you will respond with pages and pages and pages of listings of STUFF, of which much of it is just ravings, on and on and on. Since you have not studied any of the things you are raving about, its a worthless round and round and round.

I simply disagree with you, but I'm not willing to engage in one of these endless LINE BY LINE debates with you like some others do. And when questions are actually asked of you, you only rarely bother to give answers. We just get more and more and more endless lines of "stuff".

And if the round and round stuff doesn't work, then you start in on the personal insults. And then moderation, which has enough to do, has to go over your endless post line by line to remove your insults.

Discussion with you, Bob Zemco, is pretty much one-sided. Your view is basically: "If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you, and then I start calling you names." And you do, over and over and over.

I don't need that. I've been a successful astrologer for many many years, and have been able to do all the things using Modern Astrology that you say can't be done. I don't need YOU to validate me, nor are you able to invalidate my opinion with your endless endless recitations.

I do my best to assist people with astrology both on my website and here. I'm not here to prove that my way of doing astrology is better than everyone else in the world. I'm only here to help people with questions about their lives or about how to do MODERN ASTROLOGY.

Click to expand...

Another option would be to not take anonymous internet strangers' personalities personally and instead engage in debate for the sake of it, to expand our understanding and lead to new growth of ideas individually and socially, for the benefit of all.

Zarathu said:

Every time someone disagrees with you it turns into a long drawn out attack by you on them. And in doing so, you completely hijack the post. You don't start your own posts to do these attacks, you hi-jack some other poster's question. In this case, Bradders.

Click to expand...

You have it backwards...you hijacked the thread with this silly comment...

Zarathu said:

To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

Click to expand...

...and I never attacked you, rather I threw your own argument right back at you...

BobZemco said:

Maybe you can tell us how many new notes have been added to the musical scale since the creation of music.

I don't think anyone would say music stopped looking at new things when Mozart died.

Click to expand...

Zarathu said:

There is no point arguing with you about these points because you have a closed mind. Many people have tried, but its just endless.

Click to expand...

My mind is very open, and no one has tried [arguing].

An argument is the presentation of facts, not bizarre personal beliefs.

You said....

Zarathu said:

To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

Click to expand...

To which my response was the analogy of music -- people have been using the same notes for thousands of years, and yet music is still rich and full and delightful (and sometimes quite horrid).

And music is also full of "rules" and yet these rules --- rules invented by lots of long dead people centuries and millennium ago --- do not stop musicians or musical groups from expressing themselves to the point where they are instantly recognized through their individualistic style of playing.

Zarathu said:

And you will respond with pages and pages and pages of listings of STUFF,....

Click to expand...

Facts....not stuff.

You and everyone else are certainly free to present your own set of facts.....but none of you seem to be able to do that...which is very telling indeed.

Zarathu said:

Since you have not studied any of the things you are raving about, its a worthless round and round and round.

Click to expand...

I have studied.

Zarathu said:

I simply disagree with you, but I'm not willing to engage in one of these endless LINE BY LINE debates with you like some others do.

Click to expand...

Why not? Is it because it would require too much effort, or is it that you don't really have anything based in math or science to back up your claims?

Zarathu said:

And when questions are actually asked of you, you only rarely bother to give answers. We just get more and more and more endless lines of "stuff".

Click to expand...

You mean I don't spoon-feed people?

You're right I don't....and won't.

I tell people exactly what they need to know....and they either figure it out on their own, or they don't.

And when they do figure it out on their own.....that's their moment...it's not mine.....it's theirs......that's their accomplishment...for them....they did that, not me.

Zarathu said:

And if the round and round stuff doesn't work, then you start in on the personal insults.

Click to expand...

I didn't insult anyone.

If you feel insulted, then that's on you, because you want to feel insulted....since I have no control over your feelings....they make pills for that, you know.

Zarathu said:

Discussion with you, Bob Zemco, is pretty much one-sided.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is very one-sided, but that's because no one is able to present any evidence to refute what I say.

If the only counter-argument is "You don't have a web-site" then that isn't very persuasive

You said...

Zarathu said:

If you can't see it with the naked eye, then it doesn't exist in the cosmos, I think.

Click to expand...

...which is a misrepresentation of what Traditional Astrology is all about.

Someone reading your unqualified beliefs might get the wrong idea, and so it is necessary to clarify things for people....by presenting facts....which you call "stuff" and for which your only counter-argument is "You don't have a book published."

I explained why Traditional Astrology only uses Sun, Moon and the 5 terrestrial Planets....it's all based on math and science. What was it you said? Oh, yeah...

Zarathu said:

There is no point arguing with you about these points because you have a closed mind.

Click to expand...

You resemble your own remark.

Zarathu said:

I'm only here to help people with questions about their lives or about how to do MODERN ASTROLOGY.

Click to expand...

Well, this is the Traditional Astrology sub-forum so why are you here?

I don't go meddling on the Vedic or Chinese Astrology sub-forums....because I don't have in-depth knowledge....and never will, since I don't have the time to spend to learn those systems.

Zarathu said:

I do my best to assist people with astrology both on my website and here. I'm not here to prove that my way of doing astrology is better than everyone else in the world. I'm only here to help people with questions about their lives or about how to do MODERN ASTROLOGY.

Click to expand...

Zarathu, I see that you have been a member since 2008, but I am also aware that you only began posting frequently, what? About a year or so ago? So it is likely that you missed the reason the Traditional Astrology sub-forum was formed. When I first joined, almost any time a traditional astrologer posted the thread degenerated into a modern vs. trad (a short cut I despise) argument. About the time I joined, in 2011, there was marked interest being expressed by many new members in traditional methods, but the threads we had were often hijacked. It became a case of anything goes as long as it is modern, but if it even hinted of traditional then it was gloves off and no holds barred.

If you look at the description at the top of this sub-forum, it states clearly

For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.

Click to expand...

One long term member who always greeted newcomers with a plethora of links and a stated desire to hook us all on astrology, and who also despised and abhorred anything related to traditional methods, lost their mind and ended up banned because of the creation of this sub-forum.

So you will perhaps excuse us "trads" for being a bit protective of the ability to be able to remain involved in this community, and still have a space where we do not have to constantly defend our methods.

Which is tsmall's polite way of saying this isn't the place to subversively disparage a branch, or form of astrology that you do not agree with, and based on the condescension of this

Zarathu said:

I don't think this belongs in traditional astrology. To my way of thinking, traditional stopped looking at new things in astrology when William Lilly died in 1681.

If you can't see it with the naked eye, then it doesn't exist in the cosmos, I think.

Its a valid way of thinking about astrology, I can see; its not my way, but still I can see its validity.

Click to expand...

Either you did not realize to which sub-forum you were posting, or you came here looking for an argument.

You see, it isn't always about reading charts here. It is also about reading people. What we say when we post gives away much.

eternalautumn said:

It's comforting to know with reasonable certainty that death is nothingness, void, the same as before we are born, womb to womb, grave to grave. It's also comforting that our atoms continue to exist, being reborn, recycled, into new life, new form, and that the matter in our universe is a product of the stars.

Click to expand...

You, you beautiful person, are going to be in for one glorious surprise when you pass away. I hope you have an experience (or more) to change your mind before that momentous event, but regardless, your learning is inevitable.

eternalautumn said:

It's comforting to know with reasonable certainty that death is nothingness,

Click to expand...

For some the 'certainty' is reasonable. But one wonders just how reasonably certain ANYONE can be that 'death is nothingness'

eternalautumn said:

... death is nothingness, void, the same as before we are born, womb to womb, grave to grave

Click to expand...

so IF:

the state before birth is the same as the state after a life has ended

and

BOTH those states are 'nothingness'

THEN

there is interesting evidence to the contrary

THE BOY WHO LIVED BEFORE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOHfsugF1cI

Dr Ian Stevenson's talk at University of Virginia 2012 REINCARNATION - SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EH7sTuRcvY

REINCARNATION http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz-7cHUEqCw

eternalautumn said:

It's also comforting that our atoms continue to exist, being reborn, recycled, into new life, new form, and that the matter in our universe is a product of the stars.

Click to expand...