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  #1  
Unread 02-16-2015, 03:32 AM
Julian Julian is offline
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Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

For example if you have your MC in Aries, is it ruled by Mars and Pluto or just by Mars?

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  #2  
Unread 02-16-2015, 04:02 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Aries is only ruled by Mars
Scorpio is ruled by both Mars AND Pluto
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Unread 02-16-2015, 05:17 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptunia View Post
Aries is only ruled by Mars
Scorpio is ruled by both Mars AND Pluto
How does that make sense?
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  #4  
Unread 02-16-2015, 05:37 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
How does that make sense?
It makes perfect sense if you know the history of astrology. The outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) were discovered way after the inner planets, so some of the planets back in the day doubled up and ruled multiple astrological signs. If you ever hear someone referring to the "ancient ruler" of a sign, this is what they are talking about.

So basically, before the discovery of the outer planets:

Mars ruled Aries and Scorpio
Venus ruled Taurus and Libra
Mercury ruled Gemini and Virgo
The Moon ruled Cancer
The Sun ruled Leo
Jupiter ruled Sagittarius and Pisces
Saturn ruled Capricorn and Aquarius

Since the discovery of the outer planets, the list now looks like this (the one you're obviously familiar with):

Mars rules Aries
Venus rules Taurus and Libra
Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo
The Moon rules Cancer
The Sun rules Leo
Pluto rules Scorpio
Jupiter rules Sagittarius
Saturn rules Capricorn
Uranus Rules Aquarius
Neptune rules Pisces

The "ancient ruler" of Scorpio is Mars, but nowadays Pluto is considered the ruler of the sign. Even so, both Mars AND Pluto are still relevant when looking at Scorpio in the chart.

Hope that makes sense
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  #5  
Unread 02-16-2015, 05:53 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Yes I do know the history of Astrology and familiar with both traditional and modern rulerships, thank you.

I just thought it was odd that one sign gets two rulers at the same time, its traditional and modern. I was joking.


____________________________________

Anyways about your post:

Your post doesn't explain why Pluto is given to Scorpio, or why the outers have been assigned to their current signs, or if they should be assigned at all. And no, it is not universally accepted as the ruler of Scorpio. Only maybe to modern astrologers, but many astrologers ignore the outers.

See the giant thread about Pluto's usage/rulership: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=81603


Quote:
The outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) were discovered way after the inner planets, so some of the planets back in the day doubled up and ruled multiple astrological signs.
So what? Some planets like Mercury still rules two signs in this modern rulership setup. Your point?

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  #6  
Unread 02-16-2015, 06:11 AM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Arrow Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

According to most astrologers (modern, either tropical or sidereal), Pluto is the ruler of Scorpio and co-ruler of Aries, these signs also share Mars (for Aries, the main ruling planet). If you consider two significant dwarf planets Ceres and Eris, then you reconsider their relationships with certain signs of the zodiac. "Monetary" Eris might affect Taurus and Gemini (signs associated with wealth and business), while "fertility" Ceres affects Virgo and Libra (signs related to the autumn harvest and equality-sharing the harvest).

Here's the proposed alignment I happen to agree with.
Sign in italics means a co-ruler.
Sun: Leo, Cancer (the sun's highest point in the summer solstice for the northern hemisphere, lowest in southern hemisphere).
Moon: Cancer, Leo (I recall reading about this theory online).
Mercury: Gemini, Virgo.
Venus: Taurus, Libra.
Mars: Aries, Scorpio.
Jupiter: Sagittarius, Pisces.
Saturn: Capricorn, Aquarius.
Uranus: Aquarius, Capricorn.
Neptune: Pisces, Sagittarius.
Pluto: Aries, Scorpio.
Eris: Taurus, Gemini.
Ceres: Virgo, Libra.

For the 13 or 14 sign version of astrology (this is for sidereal, not the traditional 12-sign), the True Node would rule Ophiuchus as well co-rule Orion and Chiron for Orion (and co-rules Ophiuchus). I believe there are 3 celestial bodies (I heard of detriments, falls and weak planets) may rule or influence signs of the astrological zodiac, like the Sun for Aquarius and the Moon for Capricorn.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #7  
Unread 02-16-2015, 06:17 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

CapAquaPis, I like that. It maintains its geometry
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  #8  
Unread 02-17-2015, 12:50 AM
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

In my humble opinion, I wish to express that the validity of Ophiucus is met with ********.

So what I mean is that Ophiucus wasn't, isn't and never will be a zodiac sign. It breaks all the harmony and there was some complex explanation to why it's not a zodiac sign. ****, Vedic astrology and its baffled state of mind! What a delightful surprise! (W-was that a haikus or what..)

No intention to offend anybody, but I do intend to offend everybody with this outcry.
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  #9  
Unread 02-17-2015, 12:51 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
CapAquaPis, I like that. It maintains its geometry
I am AriLibCan
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  #10  
Unread 02-17-2015, 12:54 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

PluMarSco Poll:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=82115
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  #11  
Unread 02-17-2015, 12:59 AM
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
IMO Pluto DOES rule Scorpio, why the heckles not?
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  #12  
Unread 02-17-2015, 02:23 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post

IMO Pluto DOES rule Scorpio, why the heckles not?
since you asked

because

When Pluto is originally discovered
It is assigned to Aries
and there is a conference in Germany to discuss the matter more fully.
UNANIMOUS agreement dictates that Pluto rules Aries,
and the counter idea, that some were positing at the time,
that it should rule Scorpio
is quashed.


BUT THEN

someone beats them to print,
and wrote up the attributions of Pluto saying it rules Scorpio.

The author simply beat them to print
and published a successful book
and the rest is history.
It stuck,
and from that day forth Pluto magically started ruling Scorpio
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  #13  
Unread 02-17-2015, 04:13 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

In both modern and traditional western astrology, Mars rules Aries.

In traditional western astrology, Mars rules Scorpio.

In modern astrology, either Pluto rules Scorpio independently, or both Pluto and Mars are used.

A few astrologers make a case for Pluto as the modern ruler of Aries, but this is a minority view.

The original schema presented by the Hellenistic scholar Ptolemy ca. 150 was to array planets with distance from the sun and moon, both in space and time fr0m the summer solstice. Saturn was the outermost planet known at that time. Read the left-hand column down, and the right-hand column up to get the effect:

sun=Leo..........moon=Cancer
Mercury=Virgo...........Gemini
Venus=Libra..............Taurus
Mars=Scorpio.............Aries
Jupiter=Sagittarius......Pisces (not here we go around the zodiac again)
Saturn=Capricorn........Aquarius

Traditional astrology in the West nearly died out around 1700, and the modern outer planets were discovered after that. Some traditional astrologers don't use them, others do.

The most accepted sign-planet rulerships of them are:

Uranus=Aquarius
Neptune=Pisces
Pluto=Scorpio

A good idea for anyone learning astrology is to read widely, keep an open mind, practice with a lot of charts, and then see which system you like best.

I use both modern and traditional sign rulers. Pluto sticks with Scorpio because if its superior interpretive value, according to most modern astrologers in the English-speaking world today.
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Last edited by waybread; 02-17-2015 at 04:15 AM.
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  #14  
Unread 02-17-2015, 09:16 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
In both modern and traditional western astrology, Mars rules Aries.

In traditional western astrology, Mars rules Scorpio.

In modern astrology, either Pluto rules Scorpio independently, or both Pluto and Mars are used.

A few astrologers make a case for Pluto as the modern ruler of Aries, but this is a minority view.

The original schema presented by the Hellenistic scholar Ptolemy ca. 150 was to array planets with distance from the sun and moon, both in space and time fr0m the summer solstice. Saturn was the outermost planet known at that time. Read the left-hand column down, and the right-hand column up to get the effect:

sun=Leo..........moon=Cancer
Mercury=Virgo...........Gemini
Venus=Libra..............Taurus
Mars=Scorpio.............Aries
Jupiter=Sagittarius......Pisces (not here we go around the zodiac again)
Saturn=Capricorn........Aquarius

Traditional astrology in the West nearly died out around 1700, and the modern outer planets were discovered after that. Some traditional astrologers don't use them, others do.

The most accepted sign-planet rulerships of them are:

Uranus=Aquarius
Neptune=Pisces
Pluto=Scorpio

A good idea for anyone learning astrology is to read widely, keep an open mind, practice with a lot of charts, and then see which system you like best.

I use both modern and traditional sign rulers.
Pluto sticks with Scorpio because if its superior interpretive value, according to most modern astrologers in the English-speaking world today.
pluto's supposed 'superior interpretive value' is based on flimsy ground
i.e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets.
It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them,
but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars,
so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored
unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework. Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day. Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group. Today we have redefined what a planet is to serve our own categorical needs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to remember that we, as astrologers, have organizational needs that are different from those of astronomy.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them.

Mostly they either

1) don't make sense within their own context

or

2) are already taken by another planet.



About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition
.
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  #15  
Unread 02-18-2015, 08:55 AM
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Talking Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
I am AriLibCan
Sun Aries, Moon Libra, Cancer rising? (I'm also Cancer rising).

My SN indicates I'm Aquarius (sun/moon), somewhat Piscean according to tropical astrology and cusp Capricornian in sidereal astrology.

What you have are three cardinal signs except Capricorn. And I'm influenced by the winter or developed group of signs without Sagittarius.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #16  
Unread 02-18-2015, 05:26 PM
Nick Buonaiuto Nick Buonaiuto is offline
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

The best thing to do is study charts and come to a conclusion yourself.

When looking at Scorpio Risings, I tend to look at the house and position of Mars (as well as Pluto) to get a stronger insight into the chart. This makes sense because Pluto moves very slowly through the signs, meaning an entire decade of Scorpio Rising births will all have Pluto in, say, the 12th house. Then we can look at Mars (kind of a sub chart ruler) to give more distinction.
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Unread 04-05-2015, 09:54 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

Hi I have read in a book that Mars rules Scorpio by night and that Pluto rules Scorpio by day, and that it's the other way around for Aries. It makes a lot of sense to me.
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Unread 05-27-2016, 02:59 AM
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Re: Pluto rules Aries and Scorpio?

In my opinion is ruled by and is ruled by .
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