Is Bin Laden really dead?

juicey J. said:

Its interesting the news and conformation of his death was announced now because mars (war) is in aries its sign of rulership and its conjunct jupiter (luck/victory), also the last aspect the moon made was a conjunction to jupiter.

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it is not lucky .. this took months and months of preparation
originally US was going to attack the compound on saturday
they postponed it to sunday
so sunday is the actual date of death

Lol, Tik this is mainstream media that has published this over here. It will filter over there about the fake picture.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake

Like I said above, I am looking to the actual announcement instead of a 3rd party horary chart where I have no direct part.

I am not here to persuade you Tik, so you don't have to try to convince me, I am simply looking at astrology to find some accuracy. My feeling I will always trust, to this news, that something is amiss, as demonstrated by Neptune at the MC.

Tik

If you want to continue the discussion, can you please keep it to the chart.

I myself am looking at the time that Obama announced the 'death' for more accuracy as I have my doubts, as already mentioned, to 3rd party horary charts like this one. Thought I'd give it a try but after researching methods, I think the 2nd option is better.

Cheers

Actually, all, 'Is Bin Laden really dead' as a horary question may well be answered in the chart. Perhaps he is really dead, or already was dead long before, as I am getting the impression from the various stories I've been reading, but whether he was killed in the manner described at the time described may be another matter (Neptune at the MC).

I'm definatley sold by the Neptune at the MC. Too strong, and teetering at 0 degrees Pisces, sextiled by Moon, semi-squared by Mercury, to be ignored.

Again

Neptune on MC - his 4th house - house of endings!
HE IS DEAD.. there is a horary in william lilly's 2nd book about someone who is dead or alive.. follow by that book

keep on circling.. i am done here seriously

here read
http://books.google.com/books?id=dCEAAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=horary+dead&hl=en&ei=jaS-TebuKoH2tgOO2OnMBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=horary%20dead&f=false


the attack occured at 4 am because people in neighboring houses heard the massive bombardment. Newreporter near the compound was interviewing people who lived near by.. they all stated the same time.. he didnt die earlier nor later he died around jjust after 4 am.. that is a fact .. cant dispute it
T

Neptune Rising said:

I think this matter concerns everyone, though I have taken as interest in it. I tend not to believe everything I read in the news so for this big story I had to used a more trusted method of unravelling the truth.

Is Bin Laden really dead?

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There are conflicting views as to how to approach this.

The first view is that you don't have authority to ask on behalf of Osama, so he would be the 7th House, and the 7th House is also the House of missing, absent or expelled persons.

In that case, Saturn the significator rules both the 7th and 8th House and is a testimony of death.

Saturn is Below Horizon which is a testimony of death.

Although Saturn appears to be in the 5th House, Saturn is in the 4th Sign, and by Whole Sign in the 4th House, a testimony of death.

Moon, the co-significator of Osama makes a square to the 8th House from the 11th House, and is a testimony of death.

Moon is Under Beams, which is a testimony of death.

When Moon is within 12° of Sun, Moon is severely debilitated, and the here the Moon/Sun relationship is Malefic (even though Moon does receive Sun by Sign), so Moon is Besieged by two Malefics, Sun and Mars, a testimony of death.

The testimonies overwhelmingly show death here.

The other view, held by Bonatti and others is that the 1st House goes to the missing, absent or expelled person. In that case, Moon would be the significator for Osama. We don't have a lot of testimonies here, other than Moon square the 8th House, Moon debilitated and Under Beams, and Moon Besieged. I generally require at least three fairly strong testimonies, so I guess I would say he's dead using that method.

I would ask if such a person exists in reality at all, or is he only a fabricated character.

26Degree said:

I would ask if such a person exists in reality at all, or is he only a fabricated character.

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it is the same as asking if Vladimir Putin exist

T

tikana said:

it is the same as asking if Vladimir Putin exist

T

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Such an inept attempt to counter argue with an inept analogy.

26Degree said:

Such an inept attempt to counter argue with an inept analogy.

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you do realize that the chart would show that person doesnt even exist right? think for a second...

if you want .. run a horary did OBL exist

T

Thanks Bob, I really wanted to see a way of approaching the chart, thanks for sharing that!

It does look like he probably is dead going by that.

I also believe that he probably is dead, so the chart is correct. Though, I do have my doubts that he was actually killed this time round. The chart however would need to be asked, "is the story true" which I thought of later in the day, but I haven't done a chart for that question.

I feel this slight hazyness that I feel is reflected by Neptune at the MC, however the death part of the news is correct as the chart reflects.

But as Bob already mentions, and I trust Bob's views, I may not have the authority to ask such a question as I am unrelated personally to the subject.

Very interesting to use horary!

I agree with how Bob read the chart and believe he's dead. Strong testimonies.

Tik, this is going to be one of those cases where conspiracy theories will come pouring out. People will say Osama is alive and that USA lied...Just like with Princess Diana (mentioned earlier), she was killed by the royal family, just like JFK, just like 9-11 etc etc.
I have to say the weirdest conspiracy I ever heard had to do with 9-11. Was reading a forum where people were saying the Mossad orchestrated it and no Jewish people were killed that day. They actually believed the Mossad called all the Jews that worked in the twin towers in NY and told them not to go to work.

Neptune Rising said:

I may not have the authority to ask such a question as I am unrelated personally to the subject.

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That makes all the difference.

If your daughter comes to you and says, "I think I'm pregnant, ask an horary" and you ask the question, she gave you permission, you have authority, and you are the proxy Querent, so your daughter is the 1st House.

If you just suspected your daughter was pregnant and asked, you are the real Querent and you get the 1st House, and your relationship determines which House is hers, which as your daughter would be the 5th House.

Same with a husband. If his wife tells him to ask an astrologer if she's pregnant, she is the 1st House, but if he finds the whole monthly budget was spent on pickles and peanut butter and asks an astrologer, his wife is the 7th House.

It's the same here. If a friend goes hiking in the Himalayas and if you don't hear from them within a month or two to go to an astrologer, then your missing friend is the 1st House, but if you just thought "Gee I wondered what happened?" then your friend is the 7th House (a missing or absent or expelled person).

Bonatti does the missing person thing backwards and I don't really understand his logic (and apparently other don't either).

For an Event Chart on a missing person you'd always use the 1st House regardless of any other factors (like relationship).

Anyway, based on your chart, Osama appears to be dead.

The only problem I have is the lack of separating aspects that are recent. With a chart skewed this bad, I'd probably switch to Whole Sign. In that case, Aries is on the 10th House and you'd have Mercury separating by 4° or so and it's suggested that an Angular/Movable Sign is Days, so that would be 4 days, and Mercury rules the Chart's 12th House but that's a bit of a stretch. Jupiter rules his 12th (the Chart's 6th) but that would indicate 11 days (with Jupiter at 22° Aries).

Venus separates by 2° and in theory that would be 2 days (Angular/Movable) and that's a little better with Venus in the 10th ruling the 4th.

Serendipity said:

I agree with how Bob read the chart and believe he's dead. Strong testimonies.

Tik, this is going to be one of those cases where conspiracy theories will come pouring out. People will say Osama is alive and that USA lied...Just like with Princess Diana (mentioned earlier), she was killed by the royal family, just like JFK, just like 9-11 etc etc.
I have to say the weirdest conspiracy I ever heard had to do with 9-11. Was reading a forum where people were saying the Mossad orchestrated it and no Jewish people were killed that day. They actually believed the Mossad called all the Jews that worked in the twin towers in NY and told them not to go to work.

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unfortunate truth!

Hey Bob

look at the planets most of them are cardinal which is telling us things are happening as we speak.

we got venus separating from Saturn (cardinal)
moon separated from mars to join sun

T

I have a question. I'm wondering if a better question might have been "Did Osama bin Laden die May 1st, 2011?" There were a number of articles written back in '01 that rumored Osama bin Laden had died naturally of "untreated lung complication." Would this horary chart indicate whether bin Laden died recently or a decade ago?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/o...0&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines

Don't know how to react...
He IS a criminal with the blood of 3000 people.But the news came all too late...10 years late.
And the news came all of a sudden....when the world almost forgot Bin Laden.
Is this real?
Is this deception?

Caprising said:

Tikana, on the other thread about Osama you said that the chart couldn't be read, now here you are reading it....wouldn't breaking the horary rules give a false answer?

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which one? the guy from mexico who asked Radu to read it?
UK declared a war on Taliban and on Osama bin laden with the US, therefore it can be read.
he is direct enemy of UK and the US.

Mexico didnt declare a war on OBL nor Taliban

T

Earth Sign said:

I have a question. I'm wondering if a better question might have been "Did Osama bin Laden die May 1st, 2011?" There were a number of articles written back in '01 that rumored Osama bin Laden had died naturally of "untreated lung complication." Would this horary chart indicate whether bin Laden died recently or a decade ago?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/o...0&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines

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I replied to Bob with your question before you actually asked

the chart shows he died round the time when Neptune asked the question. notice pretty much all planets are cardinal.

I heard about that rumor.. I did run a chart it showed he was alive and in the plain view his lord of 7th was right on MH if my memory serves me right. It was weak which indicated health problems

T