Sun in Essential Detriment in Tropical Aquarius

david starling

Well-known member
Not seeing it, myself. But, with my Moon and Venus in Aquarius, maybe I'm inclined to overlook the expected affliction. Any Aquarian Suns have some insight on the matter?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction. I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and they all seem normal to me. It's all I've ever known.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction. I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and they all seem normal to me. It's all I've ever known.

The first three are all assertive in their own right, regardless of placement. Maybe viewing from an "outsider's" vantage point provides objectivity.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Not seeing it, myself.
But, with my Moon and Venus in Aquarius, maybe
I'm inclined to overlook the expected affliction.
Any Aquarian Suns have some insight on the matter?
The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction.

I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and
they all seem normal to me.
It's all I've ever known.
The first three are all assertive in their own right, regardless of placement.
Maybe viewing from an "outsider's" vantage point provides objectivity.

generously FREE from Charlie Obert :smile:
at http://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/...YNlDgSz2m19brA
In episode 156 of THE ASTROLOGY PODCAST astrologer Charles Obert
explains the concept of essential dignities and debilities
and how they are used
to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
The astrologer sees them as in debility and understands the use and significance of the condition. The native knows only what he has been given, and has nothing to compare it with.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I have sun in Aquarius. I don't view it as a big debility. Aquarians can come across as somewhat aloof or not fully present to the other person, but on planet Aquarius we are the normal ones.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The astrologer sees them as in debility and understands the use and significance of the condition. The native knows only what he has been given, and has nothing to compare it with.

Sounds like you're saying an astrologer can't grok his or her own Chart, because of being too immersed in it.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
So who connects the two perspectives, if the mapmaker has never been to the country?

What is, is. That's what is communicated to the native. I need not tell the client his Sun is "debilitated in Aquarius". That is meaningless to him. I need to tell him how wonderful he is.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I would say Sun in Aqua is highly functional, and good at overcoming adversity. It's a good example for exploring the concept of "debilities", which may not be as bad as it sounds.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
...the concept of "debilities",
....may not be as bad as it sounds.

re: SUN IN ESSENTIAL DETRIMENT IN TROPICAL AQUARIUS

DETRIMENT aka something that can cause damage, injury or harm.
An example of a detriment to your health is not eating healthy foods :smile:
Detriment is the hurt or harm as a result of damage, loss, or a bad decision.
The meaning of detriment has not changed much from its LATIN ROOTS
LATIN = detrimentum, which is "a rubbing off, loss, damage, defeat."
A DETRIMENT IS A LOSS THAT WEARS YOU DOWN
Smoking for example is a detriment to good health.

The modern-day definition of "debility"
is "health-related physical weakness".
DEBILITY = a weakened or enfeebled state; weakness
also a particular mental or physical handicap; disability.
LATIN ORIGIN = dēbilitās, equivalent to dēbil(is) WEAK
 

david starling

Well-known member
re: SUN IN ESSENTIAL DETRIMENT IN TROPICAL AQUARIUS

DETRIMENT aka something that can cause damage, injury or harm.
An example of a detriment to your health is not eating healthy foods :smile:
Detriment is the hurt or harm as a result of damage, loss, or a bad decision.
The meaning of detriment has not changed much from its LATIN ROOTS
LATIN = detrimentum, which is "a rubbing off, loss, damage, defeat."
A DETRIMENT IS A LOSS THAT WEARS YOU DOWN
Smoking for example is a detriment to good health.


DEBILITY = a weakened or enfeebled state; weakness
also a particular mental or physical handicap; disability.
LATIN ORIGIN = dēbilitās, equivalent to dēbil(is) WEAK

Problem is, I don't see Sun in Aquarius as a weak placement, in regards to Chart-influence. It's more "Foreign-ruler" than greybeard's description of an "exiled" ruler. So, while the Sun is comfortable in Leo, but uncomfortable in Aquarius, it's still has power and authority. [IMO]
 

GabeTheNaabe

New member
I have an interesting situation - I'm an Aquarius sun, Mercury, Uranus, and Neptune with Aquarius ruling the 8th house. Pretty safe to say that my life has been... Different.

I notice the detriment sometimes, but more often I'm aware that 8th house aspects are more prevalent in my life. For example, sometimes I'll see a Leo who is obviously very Leo and I'll be reminded that my sense of self isn't fully developed yet. But, as soon as I leave their presence, I'm reminded that I have Mercurian, Uranian, and Neptuniun things to do like research the Nag Hammadi library, enlighten into the sign of Pisces, simply or be an eccentric Uranian Aquarius.

It's interesting because I feel my consciousness moving forward into the next sign (Pisces) but I also feel like I have Aquarian parts of me that will never go away, and so that's a kind of tug-of-war I experience inside of myself, one that I argue is more prevalent than the Sun detriment in Aquarius. At least for me ;p.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
They are called "Essential" dignities. Things essential are not conditional. The debilities are also essential.

Essential dignities are those related to the signs: domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term and face.

They represent inherent, immutable qualities.

A planet in its domicile has power. Usually it works for the good. But there is never a guarantee.

For example, Mars in Scorpio is in domicile and empowered. But we shouldn't forget that the intrinsic nature of Mars has left him branded as "the Lesser Malefic". He will act according to his nature, and Mars stirs things up.

The other type of dignity, based on things other than sign, is called "accidental" dignity. They represent things adventitious that deeply affect our development. Angularity is a common form of accidental dignity.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
They are called "Essential" dignities. Things essential are not conditional. The debilities are also essential.

Essential dignities are those related to the signs: domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term and face.

They represent inherent, immutable qualities.

A planet in its domicile has power. Usually it works for the good. But there is never a guarantee.

For example, Mars in Scorpio is in domicile and empowered. But we shouldn't forget that the intrinsic nature of Mars has left him branded as "the Lesser Malefic". He will act according to his nature, and Mars stirs things up.

The other type of dignity, based on things other than sign, is called "accidental" dignity. They represent things adventitious that deeply affect our development. Angularity is a common form of accidental dignity.

So, you're saying Sun in Aquarius is inherently weak in some way or other, as a generalization? I haven't noticed that in practice. What evidence supports the theory in your experience (not necessarily in your own case).
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Let's try to see how dignity works out. Mohammad Ali was a fighter, a warrior.
But his Mars is in Detriment in Taurus. And his Sun is "weak" by house, standing in the 6th. All three planets in the 10th of fame and glory (ditto Sun) are retrograde.

So how did this guy get to be champion of the world, The Greatest?

Here we see Sun, the Tenth House, and warrior Mars all debilitated...producing a king.

So maybe I don't quite understand the effects of the dignities as well as I should.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Let's try to see how dignity works out. Mohammad Ali was a fighter, a warrior.
But his Mars is in Detriment in Taurus. And his Sun is "weak" by house, standing in the 6th. All three planets in the 10th of fame and glory (ditto Sun) are retrograde.

So how did this guy get to be champion of the world, The Greatest?

Here we see Sun, the Tenth House, and warrior Mars all debilitated...producing a king.

So maybe I don't quite understand the effects of the dignities as well as I should.

Understanding the concept of Dignities and Debilities is my latest project. I find it much easier to correlate the Dignities. "Strength" and "weakness" appear to be inadequate descriptions.
 
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