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  #101  
Unread 10-02-2018, 07:29 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I saw Jiddu Krishnamurti holding forth at the Santa Monica Civic, and a friend visited with him in the house he was staying at in Pacific Palisades and described the experience. Talk about someone who fit his (tropical) Chart! I read his books, and was impressed by his blunt honesty and distain concerning routine religious observances. One of his sayings was, "you have to die to that".

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  #102  
Unread 10-02-2018, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
It means someone else already asked me that question and I answered it earlier in the thread - if you could be bothered to read.

Why do you require a personal, separate answer that will be the same thing I already typed?
I had read the thread. I was clearly asking you to elaborate on that in the light of my pointing out that Rudhyar did believe in collectivisation. But don't worry about it.
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  #103  
Unread 10-02-2018, 08:00 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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I can't think of anyone who doesn't fit their chart.

I was running some astrology classes down in Mexico and got this group of 5 or 6 middle-aged ladies who had been friends since their school days. They were a sort of club that did good things for/in the community. I got all their charts.

What was so incredible...made me laugh...was that each of them filled the niche in their club that was appropriate to her chart. The strong Virgo lady did cleanup and made sure all details were taken csre of (humble service), the Aquarius lady was librarian and public relations.... Wonderful people.
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  #104  
Unread 10-03-2018, 08:29 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Perhaps, but it will still be impossible to be born in the same space, thus invalidating your sophistic objection to fate.
While I was sitting in the hallway waiting room, awaiting the birth of my grand baby, Another woman was sitting, waiting for the birth of her grandchild too.

Our grandchildren were born in the same place, just across the hall from each other. They were born about 3 or 4 minutes apart.
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  #105  
Unread 10-03-2018, 09:38 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

You can't have the exact same chart for two nativities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


It's theoretically possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Perhaps, but it will still be impossible to be born in the same space,

thus invalidating your sophistic objection to fate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post

While I was sitting in the hallway waiting room, awaiting the birth
of my grand baby, Another woman was sitting, waiting

for the birth of her grandchild too.
Our grandchildren were born in the same place,
just across the hall from each other.
"born in the same place" is not the same as "born in the same space"
two objects cannot occupy the same identical space at the same time
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post

They were born about 3 or 4 minutes apart.
three or four minutes apart is sufficient time for
a different sign on ascendant
and certainly sufficient time for a different degree rising
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  #106  
Unread 10-03-2018, 09:44 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Jung's take on the Age of Aquarius,
for which he risked his reputation to promote,
Jung was not an astrologer

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

was that the Age of Aquarius
will bring the Collective Unconscious
into the Collective Consciousness.
theoretically
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  #107  
Unread 10-03-2018, 10:00 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

I "walked through" chilhood, then left it behind.
True, I carry it with me still.
But I can never return, so I guess that, allowing
for some literary license, I walked through it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

So, you see the Houses as STAGES of Life.
In that sense, I understand what you're saying
.
that's not what was said
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

All in the same day...

I
First House
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post


get up, shower, have breakfast (4th house)
Drive to work (3rd house)
Work (6th house)
Go to the bank (2nd)
Kiss my wife (7th)
Read Dane Rudhyar (9th) ...
all those actions performed by "I"

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Imagine that! (12th)
Main Rulerships of 9th House = Dreams, visions, inspired thoughts
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  #108  
Unread 10-03-2018, 10:31 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Jung was not an astrologer


theoretically
Jung did use astrology in his psychological practice. He believed it gave him insight into his patient's psyche.
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  #109  
Unread 10-03-2018, 11:28 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Jung did use astrology in his psychological practice.
He believed it gave him insight into his patient's psyche.
Jung was not an astrologer
Carl Gustav Jung 26 July 1875 – 6 June 1961
was a Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst
who founded analytical psychology.
Jung’s work was influential in the fields of psychiatry
anthropology, archaeology, literature, philosophy, and religious studies.
Jung worked as a research scientist at the famous Burghölzli hospital
under Eugen Bleuler.
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  #110  
Unread 10-03-2018, 11:36 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
"born in the same place" is not the same as "born in the same space"
two objects cannot occupy the same identical space at the same time

three or four minutes apart is sufficient time for
a different sign on ascendant
and certainly sufficient time for a different degree rising
Exactly. As long as you are using topocentric longitudes, it makes a theoretical difference.
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  #111  
Unread 10-03-2018, 12:07 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Exactly. As long as you are using topocentric longitudes, it makes a theoretical difference.
All right, same small room, exact same time. Theoretically, how precise is topocentric longitude?
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  #112  
Unread 10-03-2018, 12:11 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can topocentric longitude help answer that Medieval question?
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  #113  
Unread 10-03-2018, 04:39 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
All right, same small room, exact same time. Theoretically, how precise is topocentric longitude?
You brought up the valid philosophical question that two things born at the same instant would have to be totally alike (if the premise of astrology is correct) and that we run into the contradiction that we are talking about two different things, but this objection is invalidated by the fact of corporeality, and that it is the matter (which occupies space) that receives the influences of the stars, not the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It's theoretically possible.
As a consequence, it is actually theoretically impossible to be have one exact chart for two different things.

Practically, there would be always be a few seconds difference, and that is enough to change the Ascendant.

https://books.google.bg/books?id=ReU...page&q&f=false - note that Augustine's counterargument is less effective now that you have technology and very precise clocks available. It also was negligible at the time since there were astrological ways to find the minutes of the Ascendant.

Quote:
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can topocentric longitude help answer that Medieval question?
If the angels are material, then it depends on their size, if they are immaterial, it will have to be an infinite amount.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-03-2018 at 05:36 PM.
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  #114  
Unread 10-03-2018, 08:39 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Example of projection of inner self:
....

Everything we do, think or create is simply the projection of our inner self.
It's a nice theory, but we couldn't run our lives that way. The next time you get a traffic ticket, tell the nice police officer that this can't be a real ticket because s/he's merely a projection of your inner self. Or just go ahead and walk through the wall: if it's merely a projection, this shouldn't be a problem.

Then babies are not born with basic survival knowledge. Sometimes neither are teenagers. We absorb massive amounts of information from our environments and other people.

Having said that, I'd agree that *often* there is nobody else out there.
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  #115  
Unread 10-03-2018, 09:24 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
It's a nice theory, but we couldn't run our lives that way. The next time you get a traffic ticket, tell the nice police officer that this can't be a real ticket because s/he's merely a projection of your inner self. Or just go ahead and walk through the wall: if it's merely a projection, this shouldn't be a problem.

Then babies are not born with basic survival knowledge. Sometimes neither are teenagers. We absorb massive amounts of information from our environments and other people.

Having said that, I'd agree that *often* there is nobody else out there.





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  #116  
Unread 10-04-2018, 12:03 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Jung did use astrology in his psychological practice. He believed it gave him insight into his patient's psyche.
I do not think it fair to say that Jung "use[d] astrology in his psychological practice," except very narrowly: drawing on the symbolism of the relationship between Sun and Moon in natal charts to see how they correlated with his psychological theories.
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  #117  
Unread 10-04-2018, 12:23 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Why was "and other things" added to my thread title >:l
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  #118  
Unread 10-04-2018, 12:30 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I do not think it fair to say that Jung "use[d] astrology in his psychological practice," except very narrowly: drawing on the symbolism of the relationship between Sun and Moon in natal charts to see how they correlated with his psychological theories.
He believed that they did correlate. But he wasn't a psychological Astrologer, he was an astrological Psychologist. And, given the disdainful, Modern-scientific attitude towards Astrology, that, in itself, was significant.
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  #119  
Unread 10-04-2018, 12:35 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Why was "and other things" added to my thread title >:l
Micro-managing
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  #120  
Unread 10-04-2018, 06:46 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Why was "and other things" added to my thread title >:l
So we could discuss the views of Noam Chomsky without going off-thread.
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  #121  
Unread 10-04-2018, 07:00 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Chomsky has Sagittarius Ascendant with close Merc rising in Sagittarius and the Sun and Saturn conjunct in Sagittarius just under the Asc. Venus in Capricorn, and Mars and Pluto inconjunct in . Moon's in Libra.
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  #122  
Unread 10-04-2018, 07:02 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Chomsky’s an old fool
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  #123  
Unread 10-04-2018, 07:11 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Chomsky’s an old fool
His Jups in Taurus. When it comes to economics, he knows what he's talking about.
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  #124  
Unread 10-04-2018, 07:30 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
His Jups in Taurus. When it comes to economics, he knows what he's talking about.
That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a while.
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  #125  
Unread 10-04-2018, 08:46 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

"born in the same place" is not the same as "born in the same space"
two objects cannot occupy the same identical space at the same time
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post

They were born about 3 or 4 minutes apart.

jupiter:

three or four minutes apart is sufficient time for
a different sign on ascendant
and certainly sufficient time for a different degree rising
=======================================

they do have different degrees on the Asc, but same rising sign, same chart ruler, placed in same houses.

Same moon, in same degree and all of the same lunar aspects

They are definite Astro-Twins

The families know each other from the neighborhood and go to the same birthday parties etc. I will be curious to see if they end up in Kindergarten together and see what the similarities and differences are.
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