Let's expose John Wayne Gacy's natal chart for learning

SunConjunctUranus said:

Yes, that's very informative but what is the reason to put in birth time? Is that correlate to government and/or society who "politically explicit" believe in astrology? Or are there anything else?

Because there are not anything benefit from putting birth time in the birth certificate itself if we just using birth certificate as "formalities" on government documents.
R

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Official time of birth is most often noted on the MEDICAL RECORDS
MEDICAL RECORDS today are important in case of court case
otherwise regarding birth certificate - it varies
however
for example

relative to a home birth
often no one takes note of the time
because it is not important to someone who is not an astrologer
MEDICAL RECORDS even for hospital births are not foolproof
because of human error
sometimes member of staff writes incorrect date or time
or there are other errors such as clocks being fast or slow
therefore
astrologers aware of these issues
rectify charts

there is a thread with rectification tips at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626
which provides information on multiple methods
also
it is a fact
that different astrologers have different perspectives
and so
ten different astrologers may have ten different opinions
regarding their calculation of rectified time
so
good idea to rectify your own natal chart
as it is an excellent way to familiarise with astrological principles

I recently added for interest
the following example rectification using THRASYLLUS method
provided by petosiris
to rectification thread

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=894943&postcount=343

petosiris said:

Another example, with the newly elected Mexican President - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lopez_Obrador,_Andres_Manuel

According to the AA source, the birth occurred at 2:00, quite unlikely, like most rounded off births. Let's use Thrasyllus' method again.

1) We determine the ascensional degrees from the Sun to the Moon. We mark 81 as the solar gnomon.
2) We determine the ascensional degrees from the degree opposite the Sun - this is 23.
3) We multiply 23 by 12 and again by the hour of the nativity, with the fractions. Since the birth occurred at the beginning of the ninth hour - 23 x 12 x 8 - 360 x 6 = 48 which is less than the solar gnomon.
4) We add 7 minutes to the time of birth and with 23 x 12 x 8.12 - 360 x 6 = 81 and we get the ''real'' Ascendant.

Jupiter is Lord of the Year and in the place of Good Daimon with Fortune. The Lightbringer also profects to its exaltation. Note that he was not elected with the same profections 12 years ago. Since the Ruler of the Peak was in the place of the Bad Daimon in the 2005 solar revolution, in this Revolution she is with Jupiter to the degree making a phase.

Since the rising time of Libra is 32.5, doubled it makes the stellium operative. And since the rising time of Gemini is 33 and of Virgo is 31.25, it makes the Jupiter square Mars productive of rank, politics and authority (as are the rising times of Virgo and Capricorn for that partile trine). And since half of the rising time of Gemini is 16.5 and 4 times the years of Jupiter = 64.5, it makes it even more operative.

And since the year is multiple of 5, which is the special interval point of Venus (inferior trine), it makes the profection of Jupiter and Fortune even stronger than the last one, and according to Valens ''The configurations of the stars and their aspects with each other (especially the aspects with the Lot of Fortune) are effective in the chronocratorships which are in harmony. (The whole is seen and arises from the aspects of the Lot of Fortune and from its ruler'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf

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Bump!!!...

John Wayne Gayce was not famous primarily for cruelty but for the more sensational descriptive, “psycho”. That he practiced cruelty is without doubt, but as a depraved serial killer he is more often distinguished by the term “psycho” which is slang for “psychopath”. He is not a garden variety psychopath either; he is a monster of gruesome proportions who is legendary for his monstrous atrocities. The chart of a garden variety sadist is a bit different from the chart of a monster, or a malignant narcissist. In common parlance, he was a “disturbed” person, which is slang for derangement. The planet that rules a disturbed psycho is Neptune, the planet of madness. Not all mad people are violent, but Gayce’s chart reveals considerable violence symbolized elsewhere.

In the astrology I practice, the chart ruler or rulers are not determined by the ruler of the sign on the Ascendant, but such things are determined by the ruler or rulers that are distinguished according to the following rules. The ruler(s) is among the closest factors to the four angles, As, Mc, Ds, Ic, or aspects the midpoint of any two of these. Or any factor that is tied to both the Sun and Moon simultaneously is a candidate for the chart ruler. If two or more rulers are determined by this method, it is fortunate and welcome because it hastens the synthesis process. The Sun, Moon, As, Mc are the significators that are outstanding topics in the chart. Things that are tied to any two of these factors are a powerful key to chart interpretation.

The closest tie to the angles is the Mars/Uranus conjunction. In fact, due to translation of light, the entire stellium Saturn/Uranus/Mars/Jupiter and all this square to Mercury is key. This complexity, five planets involved, is welcome for its definitive specificity. Gayce is aggressive (Mercury-square-Mars) and he is also a businessman by the same indication, but he is a wily con artist who is nervous underneath (Mercury-square-Ascendant). Gayce is violent because Saturn/Uranus/Mars are together angular; he has violent mood swings that surprise even those who know him, and he is extremely sadistic. He is cloaked in the appearance of respectability by having Mars/Descendant/Uranus within the surrounding Jupiter/Saturn. This allowed him to operate without detection for so long.

The other candidate for rulership is Neptune. Neptune is also a planet that is close to an angle, the Mc. As further distinction, Neptune is opposed to both the Sun and the Moon. Neptune opposed to Sun is enough affliction in some charts to announce derangement. Either one of these situations would nominate Neptune for rulership (emphasis) ordinarily. It is not a contradiction or a hindrance that there are two colorful elements competing for rulership of the chart. The Gayce story is complicated and steeped in details. Neptune is most often the ruler (identified by the above mentioned methods) in the charts of psychopaths, sociopaths, and psychotics and others who are popularly defined as “psycho, disturbed, or deranged”.

Disclaimer. Not all those with prominent Neptune are psychopaths, for instance, Da Vinci. I find that an outstanding Neptune in league with a Mercury/Uranus affliction, Gayce has this, are typical.

Pluto trine both Sun and Moon allowed Gayce to operate prolifically for quite some time before he was detected and apprehended. In other words, he found death “easy”.

Thank you Cary2,

After learning some ancient greek methods, it seem to me like both lot of daimon and lot of fortune were opposite the malefics and also making square to Mercury in the subterranean. This place signifying secret death according Dorotheus. Both of these hypothetical points were fall under malefic image too.

Btw, thanks for sharing your thought from modern perspective, not very familiar with outermost planets' rulership.

SunConjunctUranus said:

Thank you Cary2,

After learning some ancient greek methods, it seem to me like both lot of daimon and lot of fortune were opposite the malefics and also making square to Mercury in the subterranean. This place signifying secret death according Dorotheus. Both of these hypothetical points were fall under malefic image too.

Btw, thanks for sharing your thought from modern perspective, not very familiar with outermost planets' rulership.

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Of course, I didn't cite rulership of outer planets in this delineation. Instead I offered an interpretation of the contacts of the planets to each other. As a Modern astrologer who is different from Contemporary astrologers, I am focused more intently on planetary contacts, aspects, configurations, and midpoint pictures, than rulerships. The contemporary astrologers are familiar with the modern rulerships, but it was not necessary to cite this in the interpretation.

SunConjunctUranus said:

Thank you Cary2,

After learning some ancient greek methods, it seem to me like both lot of daimon and lot of fortune were opposite the malefics and also making square to Mercury in the subterranean. This place signifying secret death according Dorotheus. Both of these hypothetical points were fall under malefic image too.

Btw, thanks for sharing your thought from modern perspective, not very familiar with outermost planets' rulership.

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I think I see your confusion now. I was looking for the chart ruler. Typical contemporary astrology looks for the ruler of the sign on the Ascendant. I do not. "Chart ruler" to me means which planet, or group, is a dominant chart theme. Synthesis requires this step anyway. In fact, I believe the chart ruler in astrology ought to be the planet that best summarizes the chart or reveals the trail of correspondence. Many people follow the trail using dispositors related to signs on the house cusps. I do not. I look for the ruling theme which may be a single planet, or a an aspect involving three planets. The significators are Su, Mo, As, Mc, and these will reveal the "ruler" or rulers or the "dominant theme", "dominant" meaning "ruling".

By my method, I jump immediately into the synthesis process. Advanced astrologers usually must conduct synthesis after they tend to their housekeeping chores like scoring the element balance, the modal balance, the chart quadrant predominance, the aspect patterns, etc, etc. After all that, then they might begin synthesis, and it is synthesis that will finally delineate the matter.

The best synthesis is to find the dominant theme and all of its connections. There may be two or three dominant themes, and after you have covered them, the central idea of the chart has been expressed. What are left are the ancillary details.

Cary2,

Simply I don't have money to studying modern astrology in Germany, that's why I only use what I got from journal of ancient astrologers who practicing astrology many centuries ago. It works magically for sure. We were discussing this thread when it was in traditional forum, and now it's clear that two the most important hypothetical points were opposite to Gacy's malefic planets, regardless of the ruler of the ascendant. Please let's forget about, the sign or whatever house boundary, you mentioned 4 angles, apparently those angles are important considerations for ancients. More or less, both methods are resulting good conclusions.

SunConjunctUranus said:

Cary2,

Simply I don't have money to studying modern astrology in Germany, that's why I only use what I got from journal of ancient astrologers who practicing astrology many centuries ago. It works magically for sure. We were discussing this thread when it was in traditional forum, and now it's clear that two the most important hypothetical points were opposite to Gacy's malefic planets, regardless of the ruler of the ascendant. Please let's forget about, the sign or whatever house boundary, you mentioned 4 angles, apparently those angles are important considerations for ancients. More or less, both methods are resulting good conclusions.

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I really wasn't applying any pressure. I assume you will continue to be a Hellenistic astrologer.

Cary2 said:

I think I see your confusion now. I was looking for the chart ruler. Typical contemporary astrology looks for the ruler of the sign on the Ascendant. I do not. "Chart ruler" to me means which planet, or group, is a dominant chart theme. Synthesis requires this step anyway. In fact, I believe the chart ruler in astrology ought to be the planet that best summarizes the chart or reveals the trail of correspondence. Many people follow the trail using dispositors related to signs on the house cusps. I do not. I look for the ruling theme which may be a single planet, or a an aspect involving three planets. The significators are Su, Mo, As, Mc, and these will reveal the "ruler" or rulers or the "dominant theme", "dominant" meaning "ruling".

By my method, I jump immediately into the synthesis process.

Advanced astrologers usually must conduct synthesis

after they tend to their housekeeping chores
like scoring the element balance, the modal balance,
the chart quadrant predominance, the aspect patterns, etc, etc.
After all that, then they might begin synthesis,
and it is synthesis that will finally delineate the matter.

The best synthesis is to find the dominant theme and all of its connections. There may be two or three dominant themes, and after you have covered them, the central idea of the chart has been expressed. What are left are the ancillary details.

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Some advanced astrological synthesis
involves Profection, Zodiacal Releasing, et al
there are many methodologies