Ominous stellum with Saturn in 7th house, badly aspected Venus... is there any hope?

Hello,
I'm writing this post, cause I'm really despaired and fed up with the mess in my love life. Truth to tell, I've had a chunch that there is something *hurting* me in the subject of contact with the opposite sex from early childhood. Even when I had stable, loving, long-lasting relationship (I had this once, many years ago) I was totally afraid of losing my boyfriend, I was still testing him and his devotion. And I lost him, finally. Since then, my sequent relationships were getting worse. At this moment I'm single. For many years now.

I'd like you to tell me the truth. Every element of my chart, connected with love and partners, is damaged. Maybe I should, instead of looking for *the one*, prepare to live completely on my own? I would like to know, is there any chance to share everything in this world with someone special. Or, should I just focus on different tasks and forget about relationships?

This is it:
- Stellum Saturn, Urnanos and Neptune stright on my DSC in 7th house (!!!)
- Pluto in 5th house
- Venus conjunct Mars in 3rd house
- Venus square Pluto
- Venus suare Moon

What do you think about it? I'd be very pleased.
Maralee

Maralee,
Yes it seems you have some very significant challenges with regards to relationships. And your chart is so heavily Water! Water signs really need fulfilling relationships.

I think you were born in 1989? and if that is the case I did find some interesting things that include Orcus at 9 Leo being square to your Moon/Pluto. The Moon Pluto conjunction usually indicates a person who has some very powerful emotions and deep feelings of vulnerability and thus a need to guard themselves. This can be very subtle and even somewhat unconscious,. so while you crave deep and committed connection it is very scary. Saturn is conjunct your 8th house ruler and that adds to this tendency as does the Cancer influence which is naturally fearful and protective. I suspect you tend to strange contradiction in your intimacy patterns, often not setting strong and appropriate boundaries (out of fear of alienating your partners?) yet you really have trouble being deeply intimate.

Do you want the relationship so badly that you are not holding yourself to certain standards of integrity and honesty about what is a truly fair and desirable relationship? Orcus is often about tests of integrity. Romantic love is ultimately strongest when it is based on a foundation of mutual respect and admiration, not desperation or convenience.

That Mars-Venus is square the Moon-Pluto. Usually mars square Pluto suggest a very strong will and refusal to be pushed and perhaps difficulty with compromise. Venus square Pluto usually indicates at least one significant relationship loss in the life. So you've already been there and you maybe done with that.

I think you may find that you will have to do some healing of whatever wound is implied in that difficult Moon-Pluto configuration which most likely has something to do with feelings of neglect or abandonment or shaming that you incurred in early childhood. And get to the point where it is okay to be alone. Then maybe the right person will appear. And with both 7th and 8th house ruler sin Capricorn maybe you just need to consciously examine and learn some different habits of intimacy that are not as serious and somber as Capricorn suggests. And explore how and if that Mars square Pluto is somehow operating in a way that sabotages your relationships.

The Orcus square may suggest that you will need to have isolation to learn spiritual integrity regarding relationships. Orcus contacts often manifest in periods or circumstances of isolation in order to develop a core of integrity.

But it is not all bad - after all your House 5 ruler is trine your Cancer planets and your House 7 ruler is sextile your Scorpio planets. These bode well for an eventual marriage.

Also, learn to use astrology, both synastry but especially composite charts, to assess the suitability of new partners. Why waste alot of energy and time on relationships that are fraught with difficult synastry or where the composite is just weak.

Good luck,
Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.om

Thanks a lot for your response! But I also have a few questions about what you've said.

thelivingsky said:

being square to your Moon/Pluto

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I've never considered Moon and Pluto in my chart as a conjunction. There are almost 13 degrees between them, to me it's definitely too wide orb. Am I mistaken? But I agree with the description, I feel everything very deeply, which is sometimes tough for me and my sensitivity... Sometimes it's just too much...

thelivingsky said:

...while you crave deep and committed connection it is very scary

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Nothing left to say...

Do you want the relationship so badly that you are not holding yourself to certain standards of integrity and honesty about what is a truly fair and desirable relationship? Orcus is often about tests of integrity. Romantic love is ultimately strongest when it is based on a foundation of mutual respect and admiration, not desperation or convenience.

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True, oh so true. But I also thought that the biggest problem is Moon square Venus - contradiction between what I need and what I'm attracted to.

The Orcus square may suggest that you will need to have isolation to learn spiritual integrity regarding relationships. Orcus contacts often manifest in periods or circumstances of isolation in order to develop a core of integrity.

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Very interesting, but it sounds really convincing to me as well. I've never heard about Orcus - is this spot really important?

But it is not all bad - after all your House 5 ruler is trine your Cancer planets and your House 7 ruler is sextile your Scorpio planets. These bode well for an eventual marriage.

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I'm afraid this thesis is not true. First of all, by saying "ruler" did you mean the top of the house or its planetary representative? Nevertheless, in both cases the 5th house top is square, not trine to my Cancer planets, and the ruler - Venus - doesn't have any connection to DSC. So... there is nothing well for marriage, because this probably won't appear?

Is it one of the most "doomed", lets say, chart in aspect of love you have ever seen? Thank you

Yes you are correct that Moon and Pluto are too wide to be conjunct. But both in Scorpio make for emotional intensity. And yes I also misread the H5 ruler - maybe Ishould not be doing this so late at night I guess. Orcus is a Plutino in the same part of the sky as Pluto, it's a bit smaller than Pluto but with an orbit that is a mirror image of Pluto's. It is much like Pluto in it's influence. Jeremy Neal has written a seminal book entiltled Orcus and I think you may be able to find some articles of his online.

I have a t-square with Orcus , Sun and Moon with the Sun in H5 and I have spent most of my adult life alone after a 15 year failed marriage. I do see that the theme of isolation working in my life, and I also see that there is a lesson I needed to learn about integrity, that is not getting involved out of casual interest or curiousity but perhaps I should have been choosier and maintain some higher more authentic standards in the choice of lovers.

Actually I have seen that an unaspected Venus may be more likely to signify a complete absence of partner/romance/marriage. A difficult Venus may just suggest that relationships will be complicated or testing.

I hope you can find alternatives to fulfilling your need for emotional connection if you don't find a partner. But I wouldn't give up or take a negative view. Maybe Law of Attraction work would be helpful?.

Thank you a lot once again My problem, except the fear of truly engaging in relationships and being hurt, is that I'm also very picky. I've mentioned Venus/Moon square as an aspect which creates contradiction between what type of man I need to fulfill my emotional needs, and what I'm attracted to. Also my Neptune in 7th house doesn't make it easier - I've got concrete type in my mind and I'm attached to this imagery. I choose wrong also - because of what you have said previously.

I wonder if Mars/Venus conjunction in 3rd house in Leo could be beneficial to me as a person popular in some groups of people. Or maybe I'm just comforting myself right now

thelivingsky said:

But I wouldn't give up or take a negative view. Maybe Law of Attraction work would be helpful?.

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Are you suggesting that only a magician practics could help with such a chart? Seriously - do you REALLY think there is a chance to have satisfactory relationship in *my conditions*?

Funny thing is that I'm not lonely at all, the other part of my relationships - friendships eg. are flourishing.

EDIT
Also, this is the topic about horary I've made regarding my possible marriage... maybe you would like to take a look
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104117

From a glance - this is a delayed marriage chart (i.e. 30 years plus)...but not a denied chart.

Not the chart of a "forever alone."

Hello Rawiri! Thank you for the comment.

this is a delayed marriage chart (i.e. 30 years plus)...but not a denied chart

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Why is that? Could you tell me (please!!! )? I've already mentioned that in my horoscope there are scarcely any factors about happily-ever-after together. I know that Saturn on DSC is most often the indicator of late marriage, but there are plenty of factors that there will be no marriage too.

Not the chart of a "forever alone."

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I'm curious what the chart of "forever alone" looks like. Have you seen it? What are the main indicators of unwanted solitude?

Maralee

- Stellum Saturn, Urnanos and Neptune stright on my DSC in 7th house (!!!)
- Pluto in 5th house
- Venus conjunct Mars in 3rd house
- Venus square Pluto
- Venus suare Moon

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Oh, I forgot about my Chiron in 1st house opposite the ruler of 7th house - Saturn on DSC (and stellum).

I'm doomed. My love life is really doomed. My chart is "unique", because of complete lack of positive, supportive aspects in this matter. I shouldn't have started this topic. Thank you for your support and responses.

Maralee said:

Thank you a lot once again My problem, except the fear of truly engaging in relationships and being hurt, is that I'm also very picky. I've mentioned Venus/Moon square as an aspect which creates contradiction between what type of man I need to fulfill my emotional needs, and what I'm attracted to. Also my Neptune in 7th house doesn't make it easier - I've got concrete type in my mind and I'm attached to this imagery. I choose wrong also - because of what you have said previously.

I wonder if Mars/Venus conjunction in 3rd house in Leo could be beneficial to me as a person popular in some groups of people. Or maybe I'm just comforting myself right now

Are you suggesting that only a magician practics could help with such a chart? Seriously - do you REALLY think there is a chance to have satisfactory relationship in *my conditions*?

Funny thing is that I'm not lonely at all, the other part of my relationships - friendships eg. are flourishing.

EDIT
Also, this is the topic about horary I've made regarding my possible marriage... maybe you would like to take a look
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104117

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Maralee, It is good to be picky. But it is also good to form a list of the most important attributes you want, and make that about character traits mostly. Then I would suggest some Law of Attraction work. Listen the Esther Hicks lectures on relationships on YouTube. Like energies attract meaning if you feel negativity it will attract a person who is similarly negative. And research has shown that the happier a person is before they get into a relationship , the happier they are throughout the relationship.

And yes, getting out and joining groups where you can meet more people is really smart. But choose activities where the same people meet again and again so you can get to know them and they , you. It can be a numbers game in that if you meet more people you are more likely to encounter someone with whom you have really good chemistry/astrology.
B

thelivingsky said:

Maralee, It is good to be picky.

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Thanks for your response and advice You see, maybe I haven't emphasised it clearly in my previous posts, but my problem is NOT the lack of potential partners. Not at all. I would be lying if I told you, that I didn't have opportunities to be with quite normal, nice quys, during the period I'm single. The problem is, that I'm not looking for an average guy, but for a soulmate, and I'm afraid my soulmate does not exist. That was what I meant, when I wrote about "living on my own" (which is even better than living in unsuccessful relationship. But still single-handed what a vicious circle).

Thelivingsky, I appreciate your comments very much. Do you think that the brighter side of my chart exists? Venus/Mars conjunction in Leo doesn't indicate attractiveness in some cases, Moon (in 5th) trine Sun couldn't influence well on my potential relationships? The funny thing is, I've got Saturn in Capricorn in 7th house, and this planet transiting Venus over 10 years ago, brought me the most loving and long-lasting relationship I ever had... So maybe... it is not so bad?

Sorry for my questions, I still hesitate whether I'm doomed completely or only partly

Maralee said:

Hello Rawiri! Thank you for the comment.

Why is that? Could you tell me (please!!! )? I've already mentioned that in my horoscope there are scarcely any factors about happily-ever-after together. I know that Saturn on DSC is most often the indicator of late marriage, but there are plenty of factors that there will be no marriage too.

I'm curious what the chart of "forever alone" looks like. Have you seen it? What are the main indicators of unwanted solitude?

Maralee

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No problem.

A few reasons. Firstly and primarily, because the 7th Lord Saturn is in its own house...which happens to be an angle and in good dignity. It has some affliction from the Sun, but is also sufficiently helped by Mercury which would more than make up for it.

The Lord of a house in a condition like that (i.e. Saturn) is always going to manifest its house when it gets the chance. That alone really is more than enough to avoid "forever alone." Mind you, keeping a relationship going ... "and they lived happily ever after" is another matter.

Venus is admittedly a bit afflicted, being with the south node and square Pluto/Moon. But it's not completely trashed, and I don't see a tight Mars/Venus conjunction like that ultimately staying single forever.

The Part of Marriage falls at around 19 degrees Scorpio (by my rough head calculation). It is more or less good, with a waxing moon. Square by both Mars and Venus - this is not a problem in this case, as Mars is the lord of it and Venus is the natural lord, so it has both lords in contact.

There are a few other things I look at which are not so afflicted as to signify something "hopeless."

Yes, I have seen forever alone charts.

Primary things to look out for when it comes to people who are alone who wish they weren't are severe afflictions to the luminaries, particularly moon - and particularly by Saturn - and vice versa, extreme afflictions to Saturn. The luminaries and Saturn do not get along, so any conjunction or opposition and they are both hurt.

Saturn strong (own sign or exalted) on an angle (like you have) is also a contributor at times. Saturn in the 7th though, is the least cause for concern of all these, especially if it owns the 7th - since it will always manifest its house.

Those are primarily due to personality issues they can create.

None of these alone are enough though. You need a very trashed chart to truly have "forever alone."

I would want to see the above, mixed with a complete trashing of Venus and in the case of a woman, Jupiter. I'd also want to see how the planet with least degrees in a sign is doing.

Also the trashing of a certain sign (which you do not have trashed, but only have in good standing actually).

I'd also look at a divisional chart relating to relationships to be more certain.

All that said, it's not necessarily a chart of "they found one soul-mate and lived happily ever after." But it's far from a "forever alone" chart as I see it.

Rawiri, thank you so much for your response.

Rawiri said:

The Lord of a house in a condition like that (i.e. Saturn) is always going to manifest its house when it gets the chance

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Funny, this is than exactly what I said about the Saturn/Venus transit years ago - it brought me my longest, most stable relationship so far

Mind you, keeping a relationship going ... "and they lived happily ever after" is another matter.

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I'm conscious that with Uranus on DSC it will be very hard task.

The Part of Marriage falls at around 19 degrees Scorpio

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I know nothing about Arabic points, are these really signifant in interpreting own chart?

extreme afflictions to Saturn

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But my Saturn - crucial in my chart because of his placement on DSC - IS afflicted by Uranus and Neptune...

Saturn strong (own sign or exalted) on an angle (like you have) is also a contributor at times.

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Is this the delay that you meant?

All that said, it's not necessarily a chart of "they found one soul-mate and lived happily ever after."

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So this could be semi-happily ever after chart? I hope my chart is more about overcoming obstacles in relationships than getting use to live in solitude and disillusionment.

Maralee said:

I know nothing about Arabic points, are these really signifant in interpreting own chart?

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Depends on the lot. I generally won't give them any MORE significance than I give to the planets themselves. But I think they are important and act as a good "double check"...the more things you have lining up the more certain you can be.

Maralee said:

But my Saturn - crucial in my chart because of his placement on DSC - IS afflicted by Uranus and Neptune...

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I am personally uncertain as to the effects of Uranus and Neptune on Saturn concerning this and whether they would afflict it like I know the Sun, Moon and Mars will.

Maralee said:

Is this the delay that you meant?

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It's a factor.

Maralee said:

So this could be semi-happily ever after chart? I hope my chart is more about overcoming obstacles in relationships than getting use to live in solitude and disillusionment.

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Certainly.

Thank you very much, Rawiri. You really gave me hope. Best wishes!