Transiting Jupiter conjunct Natal Jupiter (opportunity to see Rome)

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Did a quick search and didn't see a previous thread. I'd like some insight from others regarding this transit, based on their experience.

First, I have a 3rd house Jupiter in Taurus, which rules my (Sagi) MC. By trade, I am a college professor (history), and an author. I study religion (among other topics) ... but all very Sagittarius. ;> (My chart is available in my signature.)

THIS particular upcoming transit will occur EXACTLY when I have the opportunity to go with a friend of mine to Rome. He's leading a study abroad program, and I may (stress on the may) be able to tag along. But I'm not sure this is going to work out for a variety of reasons. Still, it struck me as remarkable because the dates line up exactly. The transit is suppose to run May 21st to June 30th. His program is scheduled to leave for Rome on May 21st, and I would have to return to the US (due to my own commitments) somewhere around June 30th.

Yet right now I'm still rather uncertain it will come to pass. I'm not even sure I should push to try to go ... except for this odd connection of T-J conjunt N-J fitting so exactly. Going to Rome would be to see museums for developing a new class. I'd also be trading lectures for getting to utilize his planning.

But is that serendipity necessarily what this transit points to?

I could go into a song and a dance about my hesitations, but it's more complicated than it may be worth. Suffice to say that I'm uncertain whether I should assume this Jupiter return necessarily points to going to Rome on this trip. The fellow leading it and I have a complicated relationship, old good friendship, not romantic (at least on his part), and a hesitation on mine to muscle in on his trip (or if he even wants me along).

That's part of why I'm posting here. Has anyone else with T-Jupiter conjunct N-Jupiter had such an opportunity for long distance (educational) travel?

I did check my last few Jupiter returns, and they have NOT previously included an opportunity like this. The last time I had a Jupiter return, I completed paperwork for my (current) job, back in June of 2000.

The time before that, I was in grad school, although in the middle of it. I checked the dates and ironically what occurred at that time wasn't related to my (then) course of study, but the inspiration for a novel that I began writing around that time that -- eventually -- led to my Ph.D., and thus, to my current job.

That novel is still unpublished, and I wonder if the OTHER possibility would be to get some sort of publishing contract for it? But the line up of the dates with this opportunity to go to Rome is just so WEIRD. And there isn't really any current offer on the novel in question, or even opportunity. Doesn't mean one couldn't materialize, but at present, it's not what I'd expect.

But of course, 3rd-house Jupiter ruling Sagi on my 10th house suggests career stuff more than travel stuff, and that has been how it's (mostly) worked out in the past. (I could go back further, but the next Jupi return was '76, and I was in 5th grade, so "career" wasn't too significant then.)

So ... thoughts?
 

Caro

Well-known member
Just do it! what a great opportunity.

In answer yes - when 24 my first trip abroad was to the beautiful county of Canada - I was away all summer working on an organic farm with some time for independent travel. Jupiter conj natal jupiter(9H in cancer - I stayed with a family!). it was a breeze even flew from a local airport which had just started flying to toronto.
(it was recommended by a fellow student and friend)

have a great trip!!
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
This will be a third house conjunction in Taurus, but Jupiter rules my Sagi MC. I suppose that's why (date line-up or no date line-up) I wasn't sure that necessarily pointed to a trip abroad. As noted, there are some hesitations on my part, which make me wonder if I'm just seeing what I want to see.

I know that folks often expect more of their Jupiter Return than they get. Last time, I got a job offer (which would fit with Jupiter ruling my MC), but the time before that, the impact was much more subtle and recognizable mostly in hind-sight.

I suppose I'm dubious about it because it's almost too obvious. :)
 

MaeMae

Banned
i've always loved my jupiter returns.
for me, in capricorn, it lends optimism and some reward to risks.
generally, it's a time when we say "why not?" and give things a new opportunity ~ usually because they've been presenting themselves all along, but just haven't been game. caution needed to distinguish self~enlightening from stupidity.
every jup. needs a good saturn. do you have an aspect with them?
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
My Jupiter and Saturn in Natal are square, but N-Jupiter trines my sun, and Aquarius Saturn is rising in my chart (12th house, but barely, conj. my Asc.), and forms a sextile to my Aries Moon. So I have a pretty strong dollop of Saturn in my chart -- stronger Saturn natally than Jupiter, despite the latter ruling my MC.

Currently, I have T-Saturn opposing N-Moon, but trining N-Saturn (due to the natal sextile between them). It's a close sextile, so both transits are functioning at about the same time. Both will be out of orb by the time the Jupiter return hits.

(My chart is in my sig, if you want to see it.)
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Kenoshamaensa. It does look as though you are looking at the Jupiter return through the lens of other parts of your chart. The Mercury conjunct Pluto in Virgo, could also reflect your doubts, as of course could the Saturn rising square Jupiter. Saturn is unusually strong in your chart as it is closely sesquiquadrate your Sun/Moon midpoint as far as I can see.

Even though Moon in Aries generally suggests a 'get-up-and-go' reaction to things, there is perhaps a sense here of something much more complicated. Moon in the 2nd house suggests that the emotional energy tends to be directed towards the development of self-sufficiency and self-worth. Aries of course is also very independent. The transit from Saturn in your 8th house may be bringing to the surface issue to do with shared resources and obligation. You said something in your post about tagging along and doing some sort of swap with your colleague. Could it be that you have unresolved issues around this kind of exchange of resources because of the loss of boundaries, control and the shift in self-image involved? I am of course speculating here, and none of this may ring true for you. But if it resonates then I guess its perhaps food for thought.

The Moon can be a difficult energy to understand. It's the animal part of us - our 'creatureness.' It is sometimes easier to see its dynamics, even when we get into our 40's and onwards, by thinking back to how we experienced being mothered - what the mother's values and fears seemed to us to be. Again, just a possible starting point for reflection.

Since Jupiter rules your MC, it is highly appropriate that you should go on a journey to another culture that fits in with your vocation.

As you say, the other transits will probably be gone by the time of the possible trip. So I would keep your options open for the time being. With Saturn rising = the Sun/Moon midpoint you may have a tendency to expect rejection, and this could be more so during a strong Saturn transit. Sun in Libra in the 7th may also tend to reflect hesitation with putting oneself forwards and also vacillating tendencies.

Best wishes with your deliberations, and for a happy Jupiter return, wherever that may happen. (Incidentally, you could relocate your birth chart for the destination and see how you will tend to experience that place). I would forget about whether or not Zeus has sent you an invitation. I would just use this time to understand what your complicated relationship with this colleague, and your reservations about the trip, symbolise about your internal psychological dynamics. And as I say, I'd keep your options open for the time being and I'm sure it will all come clear.
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
First, my apologies for missing this and I'm glad you messaged me!

Hi Kenoshamaensa. It does look as though you are looking at the Jupiter return through the lens of other parts of your chart. The Mercury conjunct Pluto in Virgo, could also reflect your doubts, as of course could the Saturn rising square Jupiter. Saturn is unusually strong in your chart as it is closely sesquiquadrate your Sun/Moon midpoint as far as I can see.

I've always felt Saturn fairly strongly and generally regard it as a positive influence (perhaps due to ruling Aquarius and in the anaretic degree). But it does have a dampening effect too. I'm cautious by nature, and the Saturn-Sun quincunx is something I feel strongly. I will say, however, that many of the more negative associations with Saturn in the 1st house [as mine is sometimes read] don't apply.

Even though Moon in Aries generally suggests a 'get-up-and-go' reaction to things, there is perhaps a sense here of something much more complicated. Moon in the 2nd house suggests that the emotional energy tends to be directed towards the development of self-sufficiency and self-worth. Aries of course is also very independent.

An additional thing here, as I have Saturn sextile my moon and Mars squaring it, with the Sun quincunxing it (part of a yod with Saturn). This gives me a strange blend of things. I can be very competitive, but generally dislike that side of myself. :) But it IS there. I do have a bad temper (Moon-Mars harsh), but it flares up and burns out quickly (and then I often feel guilty for it). So yes, I'm a strange Aries Moon in that I'm independent, I'm competitive ... but I'll apologize to you for being so!

The transit from Saturn in your 8th house may be bringing to the surface issue to do with shared resources and obligation. You said something in your post about tagging along and doing some sort of swap with your colleague. Could it be that you have unresolved issues around this kind of exchange of resources because of the loss of boundaries, control and the shift in self-image involved? I am of course speculating here, and none of this may ring true for you. But if it resonates then I guess its perhaps food for thought.

Interesting question. My initial response was, "No," as I don't mind offering my expertise for him arranging details. But then I thought about it, and realized one of my questions/hesitations about this trip is that he's never came to talk to me about where to take students, etc. That led me to wonder if he actually wanted me along (more in a moment). But I also realize I was just a little *irritated*. If I'm expected to lecture for him, I need some say in where we're going. So yes, I think there may well BE an issue of control involved -- not a big one, but I can't say it's not there. Interesting call, as I wouldn't have thought of that. (I've learned since that part of why he didn't ask me has to do with Study Abroad program limitations on *him*.)

Now, on the "more in a moment": I'm very aware of "turf" issues. If *I* were the professor taking students somewhere and another professor attempted to "muscle in" on my trip ... I might not appreciate it. Much would depend on my relationship with the professor, and what they could offer. Now my colleague is, in many ways, WYSIWYG. He tends to say what he thinks, so if he had a problem I *think* he would say so. BUT we're also good friends and I worry he may just not want to hurt my feelings.

And here is where we get into an ODD odd mix of second-guessing. Keep in mind my Saturn. But also, in our synastry and composite charts, we have a lot of Sun-Venus action, including a near-exact Sun-Venus conj. in composite. Whatever else we may be, we've always just ... really LIKED each other. Even when he irritates the hell out of me, I can't help but make excuses for him (and I *think* the reverse is true, although I can't read his mind). There are some issues in composite (and synastry) despite a lot of good things -- maybe why a romantic relationship has never got off the ground. (I attached his chart if you want to see it.) But our friendship seems to muscle through everything else.

And so I'm not sure if when I TELL him (bluntly), "Tell me if you'd rather I not go and want to do this yourself," he reacts with "negative psychology" by denying it as he doesn't want to hurt my feelings ... or if he really means he's fine with it. Ha. How's THAT for double-think? Am I overly sensitive to rejection? Or am I subtly maneuvering him (even if I'm not trying to) into agreeing to me coming along, although he doesn't want me to? This is an odd case where I'm not TRYING to use reverse psychology but fear it may be in effect. Ha.

And yes, I really do overthink things that much. (Mercury-Pluto & Saturn much?) I should add, additionally, he's a modern historian with an interest in Renaissance Italy, while what I bring is ancient Rome and the Etruscans, so in that respect, we represent very different eras. Again, if it were me leading the trip, I'd object FAR more to a prof in my *own* era muscling in as that sounds like, 'I don't think you know your stuff.' A modern or medieval/renaissance historian wouldn't make me bat an eyelash.

The Moon can be a difficult energy to understand. It's the animal part of us - our 'creatureness.' It is sometimes easier to see its dynamics, even when we get into our 40's and onwards, by thinking back to how we experienced being mothered - what the mother's values and fears seemed to us to be. Again, just a possible starting point for reflection.

Since Jupiter rules your MC, it is highly appropriate that you should go on a journey to another culture that fits in with your vocation.

That's been partly how I've looked at this. It's just that previous Jup Returns didn't involve travel directly, but did tend (in some way) to involve career.

As you say, the other transits will probably be gone by the time of the possible trip. So I would keep your options open for the time being. With Saturn rising = the Sun/Moon midpoint you may have a tendency to expect rejection, and this could be more so during a strong Saturn transit. Sun in Libra in the 7th may also tend to reflect hesitation with putting oneself forwards and also vacillating tendencies.

That is extremely true, and very on target. My assumption is, "You don't want me here/along." I think sometimes people can't figure out my own insecurities, but so often, I hear others talk about people behind their backs, I assume they talk about me (negatively) the same way. But I also tend to interpret failure to respond to a phone call or text or email as "avoiding" or "rejection," when it may just be "busy," and I have to remind myself of that. Then again, so many people don't seem to see when they ARE being told via gestures, "Go away and leave me alone" -- and are laughed at for their failure to recognize it -- that I worry that's me.

I will say that, for the most part, I can't say that I *do* hear (via the grapevine) a great deal negative about me ... but I still worry. And I know that people who say negative things don't necessarily WANT the object of them to hear -- so I'm not sure that means much.

But all that IS Saturn talking, I know. I have Saturn quincunx my Sun (in a yod that includes the Moon, Sun at the apex). I also have a 1st house Chiron and I'm the classic definition of that as a "wound" to one's self-image. There's a whole long story behind that, but not perhaps appropriate here. :) Add to it, I have a Leo Venus *and* Mars, and it just compounds my need to feel "wanted/appreciated" (and a fear of ridicule). Saturn makes me (overall) fairly level-headed, but I'm still one big walking insecurity. Ha.

Best wishes with your deliberations, and for a happy Jupiter return, wherever that may happen. (Incidentally, you could relocate your birth chart for the destination and see how you will tend to experience that place). I would forget about whether or not Zeus has sent you an invitation. I would just use this time to understand what your complicated relationship with this colleague, and your reservations about the trip, symbolise about your internal psychological dynamics. And as I say, I'd keep your options open for the time being and I'm sure it will all come clear.

Thanks for your detailed response. I appreciate it! And ironically, despite my own fears that "lack of response" means a lack of interest, this is a classic example of, "totally missed this one." Ha.
 

Attachments

  • DJW.jpg
    DJW.jpg
    86.2 KB · Views: 76
Last edited:

Claire19

Well-known member
This will be a third house conjunction in Taurus, but Jupiter rules my Sagi MC. I suppose that's why (date line-up or no date line-up) I wasn't sure that necessarily pointed to a trip abroad. As noted, there are some hesitations on my part, which make me wonder if I'm just seeing what I want to see.

I know that folks often expect more of their Jupiter Return than they get. Last time, I got a job offer (which would fit with Jupiter ruling my MC), but the time before that, the impact was much more subtle and recognizable mostly in hind-sight.

I suppose I'm dubious about it because it's almost too obvious. :)
Trips abroad belong in the 9th house and Jupiter connected is a good sign. So if a transit is going through that area then go for it.
Sagi MC just means that kind of career or public status and authority figures as well as parent and bosses. If Jupiter is in 3rd you may travel with a sibling, neighbour or friend. We need to see the whole chart.
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Trips abroad belong in the 9th house and Jupiter connected is a good sign. So if a transit is going through that area then go for it.
Sagi MC just means that kind of career or public status and authority figures as well as parent and bosses. If Jupiter is in 3rd you may travel with a sibling, neighbour or friend. We need to see the whole chart.

A link to my chart is in my sig. :) And yes, this fellow is a friend.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Kay. Thanks very much for all that interesting feedback. I hope things work out well, one way or another. Maybe post an update in July!
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Trips abroad belong in the 9th house and Jupiter connected is a good sign. So if a transit is going through that area then go for it.

I just went and checked that, and no *transits* through that house, BUT then I remembered by progressed sun is sitting in the 9th house -- just entered into it. I'm not sure if that applies, as progressed is basically the full year, but I did find it interesting (P-Mercury is in that house, as well).
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Hi Kay. Thanks very much for all that interesting feedback. I hope things work out well, one way or another. Maybe post an update in July!

Just a quick update, I DO have tickets to go Rome. :) Obviously, I haven't GOT there yet ... but I do have tickets! We'll see what else (if anything) occurs surrounding the Jupiter return event.
 

preeshuu

Well-known member
hello ..

I will have transit jupiter Conjuct natal jupiter in ascendant .. i have 1 house jupiter in tauras ... well i am sure it will bring some good piece of newz howver trip ...for education i am :unsure:

good luck to all
 

preeshuu

Well-known member
ROME ... very romantic place .... all the best hope jupiter return creates all beautiful events

. but I do have tickets! We'll see what else (if anything) occurs surrounding the Jupiter return event.[/QUOTE]
 

miquar

Well-known member
Just a quick update, I DO have tickets to go Rome. :) Obviously, I haven't GOT there yet ... but I do have tickets! We'll see what else (if anything) occurs surrounding the Jupiter return event.

Great news. Would be good to hear from you again when you get back.
 

MaeMae

Banned
i've always loved my jupiter returns.
for me, in capricorn, it lends optimism and some reward to risks.
generally, it's a time when we say "why not?" and give things a new opportunity ~ usually because they've been presenting themselves all along, but just haven't been game. caution needed to distinguish self~enlightening from stupidity.
every jup. needs a good saturn. do you have an aspect with them?

forgot to mention, at 24, during jupiter return, working for a publisher, i traveled to Europe from U.S. for first time. Jupiter in 6th natally conjunct Saturn ruler of 6th house.
I returned to my job with 3 weeks of past work plus incoming work.
had to work overtime for a month straight. got a raise soon after and was asked to be one of several to attend an international book faire in paris the following year. transiting saturn conjuncted my sun immediately following and i hated the subsequent trip. in a large hall for 12 hours a day, answering questions, smiling until my face fell apart. no real leisure time.
jupiter sometimes brings too much.
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Okay, back from Rome.

The trip was generally very good; I took a lot of pictures, made some fortuitous contacts, although it remains to be seen exactly how fortuitous. For instance, the woman whose flat I rented turned out to be an art historian who, while not specializing in my field, loves Alexander the Great. She invited me to come back (as her guest) at some future time.

But in terms of significant career-altering events ... I really can't say. Sometimes these things are apparent only later. My first Jupiter return (the only in my life-time that involves 3 passes) gave perhaps the first hint of my interest in history. The second was around the time of my ordination. The third led to writing a novel about Alexander, which in turn eventually led to my Ph.D. The fourth involved the actual job offer for my current job. This one ... well, a trip to Rome. But I knew the return was coming and booked the trip to coincide. (All previous events were accidental, not intentional.) Around the same time, I also submitted a novel to a publisher who'd been soliciting new submissions. But I haven't heard back from the publisher (not sure I will, but see the thread entry with the chart: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51056 ). And aside from the woman I rented from, I'm really not sure yet what (if any) career impact this trip will have.

I tend to look at Jupiter returns for career/communication impact because Jupiter sits in my 3rd house (in Taurus), and rules my MC (Sagi).
 
Last edited:

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Rome is very interesting on all sorts of levels, whether one enjoys history (whatever era), or food, or fashion, or just seeing another way of life.

My reason for tending to look at it in terms of career is just how Jupiter functions in my natal chart, and what it rules, as well as the impact of previous Jupiter returns (especially the most recent). Most all of them have involved key new choices or culminations/opportunities. But in some cases, what the event meant was visible only after some years of retrospect.

This time, I tried to set it up with two (career) opportunities, to see what the fall-out might be. No immediate/obvious events occurred, but again, it may not be clear for some time.

At the very least is was a good time and I met a new friend.
 
Top