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  #1  
Unread 08-12-2019, 07:56 PM
CancerMoonMissy CancerMoonMissy is offline
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Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Hello all, new here.
I'm very interested about the sad case of 15 year old Nora Quoirin who is missing in Malaysia. I did some very rudimentary forensic astrology using the time she was discovered missing August 4th 2019 0800 Seremban, Malaysia

I don't know much about forensic astrology - but from what I've read, it's important to get the time last seen, and the individual's birth data.
I'd be interested if anyone else wishes to discuss and explore this.
Thank you in advance all

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  #2  
Unread 08-13-2019, 01:40 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

I'd love to discuss t6his case. I ahem been following it closely. Baffling case.
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  #3  
Unread 09-25-2019, 10:00 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CancerMoonMissy View Post
Hello all, new here.
I'm very interested about the sad case of 15 year old Nora Quoirin who is missing in Malaysia. I did some very rudimentary forensic astrology using the time she was discovered missing August 4th 2019 0800 Seremban, Malaysia

I don't know much about forensic astrology - but from what I've read, it's important to get the time last seen, and the individual's birth data.
Hi CancerMoonMissy,

Another name for forensic chart is mundane chart. You need only the date, time and location the individual was last seen (or heard if it was a phone call).

The placement of the Ascendant Ruler will tell you whether the person is alive or not, and other things like whether one person or more than one person were involved.

I have found that midpoints may be of great value not so much in chart interpretation but in clarifying circumstances.

If the person is dead, chart indicators will tell you if the body might be recovered. It sometimes hints at the identify of the criminals, not by name but by characteristics.
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  #4  
Unread 09-26-2019, 03:39 PM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CancerMoonMissy View Post

.......the sad case of 15 year old Nora Quoirin who is missing in Malaysia....using the time she was discovered missing August 4th 2019 0800 Seremban, Malaysia
It is important to check whether-or-not a forensic chart is viable (according to forensic astrologer Caroline Luley)

Look at the degree of the rising sign, less than 5 or more than 25 and the chart is not viable. Look at the sign on the ASC - and its ruler. Does this information describe the victim in anyway? Where is the ASC ruler located, in what house?

Does the ASC or the state of ASC ruler describe the victim in any way, or where they were found?

The 9th house often describes the outdoors, areas with woods. If the ASC ruler is located in the 9H of the forensic chart, and the victim was found outdoors, this could indicate that the chart is viable, for example.

If the FA chart is decided to be viable, you can continue with the analysis......
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  #5  
Unread 09-27-2019, 10:13 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post
It is important to check whether-or-not a forensic chart is viable (according to forensic astrologer Caroline Luley)

Look at the degree of the rising sign, less than 5 or more than 25 and the chart is not viable. Look at the sign on the ASC - and its ruler. Does this information describe the victim in anyway? Where is the ASC ruler located, in what house?

Does the ASC or the state of ASC ruler describe the victim in any way, or where they were found?

The 9th house often describes the outdoors, areas with woods. If the ASC ruler is located in the 9H of the forensic chart, and the victim was found outdoors, this could indicate that the chart is viable, for example.

If the FA chart is decided to be viable, you can continue with the analysis......
Hi Inline,

That's incredibly bad advice from an incredibly bad astrologer who is attempting to crow-bar the rules of horary into the rules of mundane.

Horary and mundane are two totally completely different things.

Horary charts are need-to-know only. You don't get to decide if you have a need-to-know, because astrology does that for you.

If you don't have a need-to-know, the horary chart will tell you that with all kinds of signatures, like late/early Ascendants, VOC Moon, combustion and a host of other things.

Sometimes, to punish you for meddling in things that are none of your business, an horary chart will appear viable, and then you take action based on the chart and lose, sometimes losing money, sometimes being made a fool or totally embarrassed or any number of other things.

Why do you think the fools over in the sports section can never figure it out?

Unless your natal chart specifically says you will be earning money from gambling, gaming, betting or lottery, you'll never win a dime to the good.

Mundane charts are different. Anyone can cast a mundane chart. Mundane charts are specifically geared to certain planetary conjunctions, celestial events and any event that has already taken place.

Mundane charts are not good for weather or related events, because there are already specific charts for that which are cast in a special way based on Moon phases.

In mundane charts early/late Ascendants are irrelevant, not to mention stupid.

That's just common sense. An event happens when it happens and not before or after.

If you want to see an example of a mundane chart for a missing person, then search the site for Kyron Hormon. A number of contributors gave excellent readings and impressions.
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  #6  
Unread 09-28-2019, 11:51 AM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

.....That's incredibly bad advice from an incredibly bad astrologer who is attempting to crow-bar the rules of horary into the rules of mundane.

Horary and mundane are two totally completely different things.
AJ harsh words coming from someone who still has a lot to learn...

From the threads you've started and questions you've asked and your willingness to wait out the result, instead of making your own predictions....I'd say you're intermediate...does not knowing something AJ, make you a bad astrologer? Because you appear not to know that Forensic Astrology is different from horary & mundane...

FA is a new line of astrological interpretation and the example above is from forensic astrologer, Caroline Luley and her 1st book, "Forensic Astrology for Everyone". It is Luley's blog that's the now famous forensic astrology site on the internet.

Back in 2014 (before your time) - AW finally created a new Forensic Astrology forum after a lot of pleading from many here...but now, Forensic Astrology has been hidden as a Subforum under 'Other Astrology'.

Anyone looking for a FA Forum here, might easily end up in the wrong section.....!!!

CancerMoonMissy's question was posted as a Forensic astrology question, and has now been moved to the FA Subform 'Other Astrology' - to avoid upsetting anyone else in Horary and Mundane here.

Last edited by Inline; 10-01-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 09-28-2019, 06:17 PM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

If you want to see an example of a mundane chart for a missing person, then search the site for Kyron Hormon. A number of contributors gave excellent readings and impressions.
AJ...i was interested & wanted to look up the mundane chart for 'Kyron Hormon' (interesting name).

It appears however that the name is misspelt. The error came from a junior member, Teenytaurus in reaction to BobZemco's post 'Missing 7yr old Boy' from 2010 - where the missing boy's name was actually Kaine Hormon....
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  #8  
Unread 09-28-2019, 06:51 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post
AJ...i was interested & wanted to look up the mundane chart for 'Kyron Hormon' (interesting name).

It appears however that the name is misspelt. The error came from a junior member, Teenytaurus in reaction to BobZemco's post 'Missing 7yr old Boy' from 2010 - where the missing boy's name was actually Kaine Hormon....
the missing boy's name is actually Kyron Horman

https://forensicastrology.blogspot.c...on-horman.html
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  #9  
Unread 09-28-2019, 07:02 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post
It is important to check whether-or-not a forensic chart is viable (according to forensic astrologer Caroline Luley)

Look at the degree of the rising sign, less than 5 or more than 25 and the chart is not viable. Look at the sign on the ASC - and its ruler. Does this information describe the victim in anyway? Where is the ASC ruler located, in what house?

Does the ASC or the state of ASC ruler describe the victim in any way, or where they were found?

The 9th house often describes the outdoors, areas with woods. If the ASC ruler is located in the 9H of the forensic chart, and the victim was found outdoors, this could indicate that the chart is viable, for example.

If the FA chart is decided to be viable, you can continue with the analysis......
I am not familiar with Luley, and I am sure she is a fine astrologer.

But I do take issue with trying to use those horary rules while using an event chart for a murder or for a missing person.

An event like that has a valid time. If a man answered a knock at the door at 11:02 pm, and someone shot him and ran off---that would be the time of the event chart---no matter if it was an early or late degree, it would still stand.

Those horary rules have more to do with the querent and the astrologer deciding if it is a valid question or a valid time to ask the question.

I don't see how that transfers to event charts at all. Totally different animal.
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  #10  
Unread 09-29-2019, 01:26 PM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post

the missing boy's name is actually Kyron Horman

https://forensicastrology.blogspot.c...on-horman.html
Katydid & AJ Astrology,

The Forensic astrology site (listed above) is Caroline Luley's actual blog spot.

AJ recommended the Kyron Hormon interpretation, so you both appear to agree that Caroline's new system works.... What's interesting about Caroline's method is that she uses it for missing persons - not murders with the death details already known.

I first became convinced that Caroline's Luley's new FA approach (combination of horary and mundane astro) worked in Dec. 2013 - Jan.2014.

The girlfriend or sister of Alex Johnson wrote to AW asking astrologers for help finding her missing brother / boyfriend - a young chef, who went missing 2 days before Xmas. Alex had just been on the phone with his girlfriend discussing picking up the turkey for Xmas supper when the door bell rang and he was never seen alive again. Interestingly the Alex Johnson thread here has mysteriously disappeared from AW - probably the same time the Forensic astrology Forum moved to 'Other Astrology'....

In the Alex Johnson thread using Caroline Luleys method - many astrologers determined that Alex was murdered unfortunately, and well hidden & confined to a very cold, wet location near a kitchen. EDIT to ADD: Alex's body was later found under a waterfront restaurant in a barrel submerged in the frozen Kentucky river.

Last edited by Inline; 10-01-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 09-29-2019, 02:10 PM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post


AJ...i was interested & wanted to look up the mundane chart for 'Kyron Hormon' (interesting name).

It appears however that the name is misspelt. The error came from a junior member, Teenytaurus in reaction to BobZemco's post 'Missing 7yr old Boy' from 2010 - where the missing boy's name was actually Kaine Hormon.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post


the missing boy's name is actually Kyron Horman

https://forensicastrology.blogspot.c...on-horman.html
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...5&postcount=83


06-23-2010, 03:55 AM
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Re: missing 7 yr old boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
The uncle groped a teenage girl; this is his area of interest.

That's exactly right. I had that in deviate psychology. Sexual predators and murderers have a preference, and they never stray from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
Secondly, in addition to Bob's reasoning, I don't think the uncle has been around; he lives in WA state, several hundred miles away, and there has been NO mention in any of the media or blogs, etc, that he was in the Portland area recently.

The TV coverage is horrid. One of the local TV reported that his body had been found, it wasn't, so then they had to make a retraction. That's the problem with the "news" it's just raw data that hasn't been evaluated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
And I hadn't noticed the yod; actually it's a boomarang, isn't it, with venus there? And venus at 28 leo is conj the mars of the last seen chart. My understanding is that the venus/mars point is an added focus of the yod formation; perhaps a clarification or balance point.

I am really weak on certain aspect configurations. You're right, it is a boomerang, but I have no idea what it means. The sextiles to Venus suggest opportunity of sorts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
Interesting, also, venus conj the mars: could this be a female coming forward with information about the mars? Or information that both a male and female were involved?

It could be. Depends on who Venus is. It we put the 12th House (the crime itself) on the 1st, that means transiting Venus is moving from the 1st to the 3rd. The imagery is sort of a secret being communicated or a crime exposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
Also, there is a new moon eclipse July 11 at 19 cancer, conj the venus in the chart. That may bring some revelations, also. A new beginning for that venus in cancer.

We don't have to wait long to find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette
Bob, why do you say whoever killed KH has done it before? Where do you see this?

I was a detective sergeant. I have a degree in law enforcement. Just a hunch, based on experience. People kill because they planned to do so, or because they panicked (it's emotionally induced -- under the influence or they get spooked and start firing or they're enraged or angered).

Someone planned this. They knew there was a science fair, that there would be chaos for a while and that no one would miss Kyron because of the disruption in the daily routine. Someone lured him away and not to have milk and cookies and discuss literary criticism of Edith Sitwell's poetry.

Remember, the Murderer's House is the 8th. That's Aquarius ruled by who? Saturn.

There's organization, planning, structure etc. Move the 8th House to the first, and guess what, the 3rd House is now the 8th House with Saturn, and it's a nocturnal chart (because the Sun --Kyron-- is now posited in the House of Endings -- the 4th), so it's a male. Saturn in Virgo, very practical, very precise.

Lot of water in this chart. Lot of mutable signs, too. Very emotional. Pisces Moon, I'm not saying the perpetrator has a Pisces Moon, I'm just saying he's a mommy's boy.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
It's called derived houses, derivative houses, houses within houses and a few other things.

Your first child is the 5th House, the second is the 9th House (the fifth from the 5th), your third child is the 1st House (the fifth from the 9th).

Step-children are the 11th House. The 2nd born step-child is the fifth from the 11th House.

If your parents are the 4th House, then their parents are the fourth from the 4th, or the 7th House. So your great-grandparents would be the 10th House.

A marital partner's resources are the 8th House, but only for your first marriage. Your 2nd Marriage is the 9th House, so your 2nd spouse's assets are the 10th House.

In a Mundane Chart, the 10th House represents the government, leaders, etc etc. Which house represents secret enemies? The 9th House because it is the twelfth house from the 10th House.

If the 7th House represents your spouse or your business partner, then which house represents their secret enemies? The twelfth house from the 7th House (so it's the 6th House).

If your father is the 10th House, then his second wife would be the 6th House, not the 4th. That makes the 6th House the step-mother.

So, who are the secret enemies of the secret enemies? The twelfth house from the 12th House which is the 11th House.

If the 10th House is your father, then which house is his brothers and sisters? The third from the 10th, which is the 12th House.

When you delineate a chart, you need to delineate all of the house meanings. So if you have Saturn in the 4th House, the 4th House represents many things, including your life in your twilight years.

So what does Saturn in the 4th House mean?

Well, what does Saturn mean? Saturn means many, many things. Are you going to be organized and disciplined in your old age?

No, that isn't what it means. It means ill-health, loneliness or living miserly. How do you know which? Well, what house does Saturn rule in the chart?

If Saturn rules the 2nd, then you'll better start saving all the money you can now and retiring as much debt as possible, or you'll end up eating cat food and joining the Gray Panthers. If it rules the 6th House, then invest in a pharmaceutical company, because your health will be bad.



You'd be surprised how many baseball and football players smoke, whether its tobacco or marijuana.

I can't say definitively that she is or isn't using drugs and/or having an affair, but those are two very good reasons to lie to the police, which would cause the police to insist upon polygraph tests. She might be bi-sexual, and the affair is with another woman.



Venus is at 18 Can 35 and Mars at 28 Leo 39 and that's 40 degrees and that is a nonagon, which means some kind of test, perhaps a loyalty test or something. It's with a mere 4' of arc. That is just too much to be a coincidence.



It's a different world now. It's reality TV and Talk-Show Nation. 20 years ago, a missing child was local news, not national news. I know from other recent incidents of missing children, the police were swamped with calls from all over the country by people just wanting to talk and vent, people just wanting to express an opinion and people just wanting to explain their theory of what happened.

The police don't have time for that nonsense.

Police also withhold details because there are a lot of sick people who will confess to crimes, even though they didn't commit them.

I try to stay away from media reports (very easy since I don't have a TV) so it doesn't prejudice my reading of a chart.

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  #12  
Unread 09-30-2019, 12:20 AM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post
Because you appear not to know that Forensic Astrology is different from horary and mundane...
Hi Inline,

It is not different. People just want it to be different, you know, so they can to sell books.

Get it?

Quote:
FA is a new line of astrological interpretation and the example I gave above was from the work of forensic astrologer, Caroline Luley in her 1st book, "Forensic Astrology for Everyone".
It's not new. People have been doing forensic astrology for decades, and quite successfully without a lot of bizarre inconsequential rules.

Your heroine hasn't exactly solved the mystery of Kyron Hormon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
the missing boy's name is actually Kyron Hormanl
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
I am not familiar with Luley, and I am sure she is a fine astrologer.

But I do take issue with trying to use those horary rules while using an event chart for a murder or for a missing person.

An event like that has a valid time. If a man answered a knock at the door at 11:02 pm, and someone shot him and ran off---that would be the time of the event chart---no matter if it was an early or late degree, it would still stand.

Those horary rules have more to do with the querent and the astrologer deciding if it is a valid question or a valid time to ask the question.

I don't see how that transfers to event charts at all. Totally different animal.
Hi katydid,

Thank you. Forensic astrology doesn't need any rules. It already has well-established rules, but some people like to be different, because it makes money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline View Post
AJ recommended the Kyron Hormon interpretation, so you both appear to agree that Caroline's new system works....
How did you ever come to that conclusion?

No one tried to crow-bar horary astrology rules into forensic charts.

A forensic chart is just a mundane chart by a different name.

You read it just like you read any other chart, except for horary and electional which have their own rules.
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  #13  
Unread 09-30-2019, 09:15 AM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

.....No one tried to crow-bar horary astrology rules into forensic charts.

A forensic chart is just a mundane chart by a different name.
AJ, it's an argument you can prove?

You wanted to help CancerMoonMissy when you were answering her question, so here's an opportunity to show everyone how it's done.

Last edited by Inline; 10-01-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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  #14  
Unread 10-01-2019, 09:56 AM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

Horary charts are need-to-know only......the horary chart will tell you that with all kinds of signatures, like late/early Ascendants, VOC Moon, combustion and a host of other things....

Natal chart specifically says....(describes the individual).

Mundane charts are different. Anyone can cast a mundane chart - the charts are specifically geared to certain planetary conjunctions, celestial events and any event that has already taken place.
In mundane charts early/late Ascendants are irrelevant.....
Above AJ's break down of the differences between horary & mundane & natal charts.

Forensic astrology is a combination of all three....and works.

As I mentioned above it worked for AW astrologers here - using Luley's method back 2014 to find the missing chef, Alex Johnson. The Leo ASC described his appearance ( fair with a large beard etc) and the ASC ruler was located in the Sag 5th house with Merc. He was a UK chef living in the US and in his kitchen preparing Xmas recipes while talking to his girlfriend on the phone when he disappeared. There were several points that indicated the chart was "viable according to Luley's approach", so everyone continued and studied further....

Then after a couple of weeks, AW astrologers determined that Alex had been murdered, and tried to narrow down the location for his missing body....It was determined that he was in a confined space, very cold and wet and near a kitchen. Initially it was thought that he might be in the freezer of the university kitchen where he had worked and a search was done but nothing. The police eventually found him under the deck of a waterfront restaurant, in a barrel submerged in the frozen Kentucky river.....

https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Co...494844941.html

(EDIT to ADD: astrologers needed time for Luley's method of determining direction etc - but it eventually became clear later that the method did in fact indicate the correct direction & distance away to begin searching)

Luley's approach to Forensic astrology works and it is a combination of natal, horary and mundane astrology.....

Last edited by Inline; 10-01-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 10-09-2019, 12:24 AM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

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Originally Posted by Inline View Post
As I mentioned above it worked for AW astrologers here -
Hi Inline,

You can be right in astrology for all the wrong reasons. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Some people don't like to follow the rules.

That's why people are in prison, because they don't like to follow the rules.

It should come as no surprise that there are astrologers who don't like to follow the rules, either.

We already have a system that works and has worked for several 1,000 years.

There's no need to re-invent the wheel, but some astrologers just like to be different and not follow the rules and make up their own rules as they go along, especially since there are impressionable gullible suckers-a-plenty to buy their books.
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  #16  
Unread 10-09-2019, 03:21 PM
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Re: Forensic astrology: Nora Quoirin disappearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

....We already have a system that works and has worked for several 1,000 years.

There's no need to re-invent the wheel, but some astrologers just like to be different and not follow the rules and make up their own rules as they go along....
....and AJ how is that working for you? What prediction have you successfully made since joining AW, and shared with us?
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