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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #176  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:20 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Imagine trying to come up with fancy methods to get more queries correct with shotgunning. I don't see why astrology should not degenerate into that if there is no objectivity in it.
Who says there's no objectivity to it? Just not the sort of objectivity that you like, apparently.

Who is "shotgunning"? What do you mean by that? If you believe yourself to be objective, then you don't have to write in metaphors.

Do not confuse "objective" with "deterministic" or "fatalistic." Do not confuse objectivity with linear causality. Start thinking about complex systems and models, and how they operate.

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  #177  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:25 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
There is something sinister in the way Cornelius sells full subjectivity under the guise of something magical/literature/divination. This leads to so much confusion because most people think he simply means replacement by another mechanism of synchronicity (see his podcast with Chris Brennan).

I will have it in mind that you understand him correct the next time you give me some advice though. I am keen on building a scientific system rather than a mentalist one.
I have yet to see you try to build a system that is remotely scientific. To understand science, go chat with the faculty in your nearest university astronomy department or observatory.

Ptolemy and Aristotle are not scientific in today's terms. Neither is Copernicus or Galileo. Science is heavily based upon experimentation, observation, measurement, and statistics. Think of those people as pre-scientists or proto-scientists.

I've pointed out a number of times that objectivity is not the same as science. History is one of the humanities, yet historians are in the business of learning and publishing facts, for example. Or think about a court of law, where attorneys try to extablish the precise facts of the case.

I don't think astrology is a form of divination. I've explained what I think it is. I merely pointed out your mis-reading of Geoffrey Cornelius.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 05-20-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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  #178  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:28 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Petosiris, I am sorry that you find me so threatening.
Honestly I am sad in that you are trying to mix reality and delusion.
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  #179  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:29 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
It is a contentious subject, so it is bound to have polarizing opinions. Either the planets are able influence your life (or able to perfectly synchronize with 7 billion people) or they don't.
Way too simplistic.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #180  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:31 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

No, no, and no.

Are you merely trying to be annoying, or do you have actual rational arguments to make? I suspect the former.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #181  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:33 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
No, no, and no.

Are you merely trying to be annoying, or do you have actual rational arguments to make? I suspect the former.
Suppose I was a skeptic and I argued that astrology ''worked'' (because it does according to the subjects) based on these psychological mechanisms. How would you reply?
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  #182  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:34 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Yes, it would bother me if it proved to be bogus. But you wouldn't mind if you happened to be tricking yourself or other people?
Since I don't "trick" myself or other people, where's the problem?

It might surprise you to learn that people come to this forum requesting astrological readings. They've already made some decisions about it.

Petosiris, about how many chart readings, on average, do you give per week?

Just curious.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #183  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:36 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Honestly I am sad in that you are trying to mix reality and delusion.
You wouldn't know the difference.

And no, you are not sad.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #184  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:37 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Suppose I was a skeptic and I argued that astrology ''worked'' (because it does according to the subjects) based on these psychological mechanisms. How would you reply?
What "psychological mechanisms" are you talking about?

The Barnum effect?
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #185  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:37 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Since I don't "trick" myself or other people, where's the problem?

It might surprise you to learn that people come to this forum requesting astrological readings. They've already made some decisions about it.

Petosiris, about how many chart readings, on average, do you give per week?

Just curious.
Jesus, you are way more experienced than me, please.
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  #186  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:38 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
What "psychological mechanisms" are you talking about?

The Barnum effect?
Yeah, why not. Don't you think it plays a role in your symbolic system?
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  #187  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:41 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Do not confuse "objective" with "deterministic" or "fatalistic." Do not confuse objectivity with linear causality. Start thinking about complex systems and models, and how they operate.
Oh yes, we definitely do not want to be fully deterministic without objectivity.
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  #188  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:46 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

I am impressed by the bold readings you did despite the fact you don't believe they are valid beyond chance.
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  #189  
Unread 05-20-2019, 05:59 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

You should advertise the fact that you don't believe that astrology is an objective phenomenon occurring in nature, that your predictions are not better than random guesses, and that human psychology can be deceived by random statements seeming to form objectivity. Until you acknowledge either that fact or that astrology is a valid phenomenon with different way of influence, I would have you on my ignore list. I am really not trying to annoy you, just very sad.
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  #190  
Unread 05-20-2019, 06:16 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The Magnetic Field Matrix, which is what astrology is all about, is both within us and all around us. The best we can achieve is subjective objectivity. Some are attracted to astrology, some are repelled, others are ambivalent.
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Subjective objectivity means being objective from your own viewpoint. It won't be one-size-fits-all.
Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the use of the terms attract/repel along with magnetic field matrix.

I get what you mean about subjectively objective, although objectively subjective might be more accurate.
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  #191  
Unread 05-20-2019, 07:07 AM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

Petosiris, since you either cannot or will not stop lying about me, I see no point in continuing this "discussion" with you. You either cannot or will not be truthful.

I don't hold it against you, however. In your universe, the planets made you do it.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #192  
Unread 05-20-2019, 07:14 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by Flapjacks View Post
Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the use of the terms attract/repel along with magnetic field matrix.

I get what you mean about subjectively objective, although objectively subjective might be more accurate.
I use the Heliocentric model to determine the Cardinal Domicile-rulers and the Sun as Leo's Domicle-ruler, as applied to the Geocentric Chart. So, I agree--that would be objectively subjective.
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  #193  
Unread 05-20-2019, 07:16 AM
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Smile Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Petosiris, since you either cannot or will not stop lying about me, I see no point in continuing this "discussion" with you. You either cannot or will not be truthful.

I don't hold it against you, however. In your universe, the planets made you do it.
The planetary placements correlate with a propensity for doing it.
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  #194  
Unread 05-20-2019, 07:22 AM
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Smile Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Siriusly
You're a catalytic thinker.
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  #195  
Unread 05-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

Denying astrology is like denying gravity. It doesn't stop operating.
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  #196  
Unread 05-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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Re: The clockwork of Astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post


You're a catalytic thinker.

not a catalytic converter
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