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Research and Development This is a forum designed for applying scientific methods and understanding to all approaches of astrology, cooperative formulation and testing of new ideas, re-examination of known methods of delineation and interpretation, and the exploration of new astrological methods of all kinds (e.g. heliocentric models, planetary nodes and apogees, etc.).


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  #251  
Unread 02-02-2015, 01:47 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Re: the recent Dirius-Muchacho debate:

Sadly, people do not always understand themselves very well.
And probably you see this with a few people you know.
Maybe they tend to act badly or strangely around other people, then wonder why they have few friends.
The abusive alcoholic who doesn't understand why his wife left him.

A common type of question in "read my chart" threads is, "What career am I best suited for?"
or "What would be a good major for me in college?"
Periodically you see OPs from women saying, "Why am I 40 and still single?"
Or from anyone, "Why doesn't my money work out?"
They might be perplexed about their romantic or parent-child relationship, and hope for some insights.
I could go on in this fashion
-- but, no--
many people do not understand themselves very well
and they hope that astrology will help them with some answers.
A lack of self-understanding is not-unusual
however
astrology is not necessarily the most effective way to gain self-understanding
meditation for example
is a proven way to gain better understanding of oneself

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  #252  
Unread 02-02-2015, 04:25 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
In the original chart posted, pluto doesn't ever actually touch the descendant degree.
In case you don't know the angles of a horoscope are computed in right ascension, as are all bodies or points in space located. The speculum's for Farah Fawcett's passing showing the true body positions of points in her natal chart and of the transits at the time of her death clearly show that transit Pluto occupied the same astronomical lune within 2 arcminutes as the computed Descendant of her natal chart. Read attached speculum.

Astrologers' would do well to try and find Jeff Mayo's THE ASTROLOGER'S ASTRONOMICAL HANDBOOK, c) 1965 by author, L.N. Fowler & Co. Ltd., London or a similar work. For now I post excerpts from another to save myself much time.

FYI.

From notes by Kay Cavender

"A simplification: To put up an astrological chart: when you find the longitude (zodiacal) placements of planets and lights (and their aspects)--that's the Ecliptic System. When you calculate the angles(ASC-DSC and MC-IC), and the planetary positions in relation to the angles, that involves a combination of the Equatorial and Horizon Systems in relation to the Ecliptic.

The Ecliptic (longitudinal) degrees of a planet alone will not necessarily indicate if it is really "ON" the horizon (ASC-DSC) or "ON" the meridian (MC-IC) - BECAUSE the Ecliptic longitude positions also have latitude, and BECAUSE the Earth (and its Equatorial plane) is tipped 23.5 degrees to the Ecliptic plane, and BECAUSE we live on
different latitudes (Horizon System). These three systems (Ecliptic, Equatorial, Horizon) have to be coordinated.

HORIZON SYSTEM (Azimuth & Altitude): Because planets have Declination (see Equatorial System) and Altitude, they are not necessarily bodily or literally (i.e., "mundanely") on the Horizontal angles (ASC-DSC) even though their ecliptic longitude is. Altitude (up or down from horizon) is key to rising & setting planets. What's on the horizon is
0 degrees Altitude, therefore actually "mundanely" angular rather than just ecliptically the same degree on the horizon (ASC-DSC). ASC = ecliptic degree crossing the eastern horizon."

and

". . . Planets must be BODILY "on" the angles (their 'MUNDANE' position) to have a relationship to the angles.

However, the Right Ascension of the lights and/or planets, when compared to the RAMC of the culminating angles & when calculated with Horizon coordinates, does indicate when a celestial body is angular on MC or IC. Most critical to measure is Pluto, which because of its extreme ecliptic latitude (up to 17 degrees) is generally not anywhere
near its ecliptic longitude. Measuring Pluto especially in terms of spherical astronomy is complex mathematically because it involves these overlapping astronomical systems of measurement."
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  #253  
Unread 02-02-2015, 04:33 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

[deleted quote of attacking comment - Moderator]

Pluto on the Desc. does not always indicate death any more nor less than all of what you had to dig for but in this case it was an appropriate aspect.

From Robert Hand's "Planets In Transit" on the significance of transiting Pluto:

"You can always see its effects very clearly - ranging from machines breaking down and needing repair to full scale destruction and death."

From a prior posting by me elsewhere:

Even with such exactness of planetary placements in relationship with the angles or other planets in a chart there is no exact prediction of what will come to pass. If anybody believes otherwise, I have a life span of almost 70 years, a timed birth chart, and have lived through the conjunctions, sextiles, squares, trines, and oppostions of all of the outer planets to all of my natal planets and angles and would enjoy their interpretations detailing the experiences of any 1 of those transits. A ballpark of positive or negative, easy or difficult, is all that may be forecast without intuition or a 'sixth sense' playing a role. How could it be otherwise when you have but 2 luminaries and 8 planets with which to describe the countless experiences which occur every moment in the world?

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Unread 02-02-2015, 05:13 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Well I agree with one thing, Pluto's Ecliptical co-ordinates should not be used if one is insists on using it. My reference to the ASC was merely to highlight that the ASC is the thing that everything in the chart is related to, just as it is the being of the native that joins the various parts of their life together. I was trying to be concise, but I see it didn't work. You did say "...whether they are measured in longitude or Right Ascension" though hence the use of my "apparently...". I apologise if I have misunderstood your meaning in "longitude".

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

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  #255  
Unread 02-02-2015, 06:17 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Waybread, a few minutes difference would change the sign, and no offence, but your definition of Sagittarius rising would be different to mine. I can't do any rectification so the dates are not of use.
I am curious to learn your definition of Sagittarius rising. I'd say that a mutable fire sign ruled by Jupiter in either Leo (tropical) or Cancer (sidereal) comes across very differently from Scorpio or Capricorn rising.. Further, that the ascendant indicates something about the person's outward personality and body. (And this is straight out of a traditional astrology textbook.)

Incidentally, star-fans, I read an article about the night sky in February. Apparently under good viewing conditions, there will be some times when you can see Neptune with a good pair of binoculars. It's not in this site, but it might be of interest for the naked-eye star gazers here: http://www.nakedeyeplanets.com/#neptune
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  #256  
Unread 02-02-2015, 08:35 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
A lack of self-understanding is not-unusual
however
astrology is not necessarily the most effective way to gain self-understanding
meditation for example
is a proven way to gain better understanding of oneself
I agree with this and would include; any interest in "Self" as a spiritual being, rather than an ego driven programmed social machine, often begin with simple self serving questions about "self." If their time is ripe these questions potentially lead one's attention inward toward Self discovery. For many, even the sun sign columns we all know and love are often the first little steps along the journey of awakening. Little steps... on a very long journey.
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  #257  
Unread 02-02-2015, 09:43 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post

[deleted quote of attacking comment - Moderator]

Pluto on the Desc. does not always indicate death any more nor less than all of what you had to dig for
but in this case it was an appropriate aspect.

From Robert Hand's "Planets In Transit"
on the significance of transiting Pluto: "You can always see its effects very clearly
- ranging from machines breaking down and needing repair to full scale destruction and death."


From a prior posting by me elsewhere:

Even with such exactness of planetary placements in relationship with the angles or other planets in a chart there is no exact prediction of what will come to pass. If anybody believes otherwise, I have a life span of almost 70 years, a timed birth chart, and have lived through the conjunctions, sextiles, squares, trines, and oppostions of all of the outer planets to all of my natal planets and angles and would enjoy their interpretations detailing the experiences of any 1 of those transits. A ballpark of positive or negative, easy or difficult, is all that may be forecast without intuition or a 'sixth sense' playing a role. How could it be otherwise when you have but 2 luminaries and 8 planets with which to describe the countless experiences which occur every moment in the world?
Robert Hand wrote Planets in Transits as a computer program
then sold it to astro.com and states during this interview
that he no longer recognises it much since it has been 're-written'
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2013/...nal-astrology/
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Unread 02-02-2015, 09:47 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Konrad View Post

Well I agree with one thing, Pluto's Ecliptical co-ordinates should not be used if one is insists on using it.
My reference to the ASC was merely to highlight that the ASC is the thing that everything in the chart is related to,
just as it is the being of the native that joins the various parts of their life together.
I was trying to be concise, but I see it didn't work.
You did say "...whether they are measured in longitude or Right Ascension" though hence the use of my "apparently...". I apologise if I have misunderstood your meaning in "longitude".

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]
The practice of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY is indeed entirely dependent on there being 'an hour marker'
i.e. the Ascendant

No time of birth = no reliable ascendant
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  #259  
Unread 02-02-2015, 09:54 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by MissScorpio View Post

So do we continue to believe in Pluto's force? Personally, everything I read about from an astrological point of view on Pluto I relate to, notoriously so.
What did you get started here?
Trouble maker!


Back to your post (and thank you for stirring the pot):

I agree in the sense that those archetypal principals that have been assign to Pluto are at work on every level. The assignment of these principals to Pluto or any planet seem to be the sticking point for so many. The fact that this debate turns into a battle of "Traditionalists" vs. "Modernists" is kind of a sad thing in a way...IMHO although it can eventually be productive...

In about any trade or art that I can think of the same friction exists. Old ways hold on for dear life while new ideas struggle to find their place. And at the end of the day, when the house is built or the song has been written and recorded, it only seems to matter to those who need to make an issue out if it whether the walls were constructed using modern power tools vs. traditional hand tools or whether the guitar was an old Martin acoustic vs. a Fender electric... in the end the results are what matters—to most of us.

In the end it may come down to the classic debate of the tree falling in the forest... Traditionally the debate was a loop without proof either way. Now, if you/we accept the growing understanding of quantum science (which not so remarkably sounds a lot like traditional metaphysical principals) then we must consider the importance of the "observer" in the discussion.

Thus, if you use Pluto and find useful insight it may simply mean that you have inserted yourself into the forest as the observer and find there is a sound. If you do not use Pluto and find the same or similar insight it may simply mean your attention is focused elsewhere and the power of this observation is "mutually entangled"—in a quantum sort of way—to the focus on the individual and chart being examined—Pluto or not!
In other words it's like the two blind men examining the same elephant from opposite ends. Argument and debate ensue but if they continue to examine and learn to cooperate and share info they just might find they are observing the same thing.

I know this is like—weird!

On a couple occasions, once in the 70's and again in the 80's, I provided some highly accurate chart readings (according to the Natives), only to find out later the basis for the chart calculations given to me were quite wrong.
So, what's that all about?
Something else is going on here on other levels of consciousness. This art/science of astrology is not only just a matter of matter—examining physical objects out there in space and insisting they fit into a scheme of study. It also has to do with our interconnectivity to each other and the universe we "observe."
Could it all actually be ONE as the phrase is so often coined?
And as we "log on" to the Internet with focus on this forum, perhaps when we focus our attention on a chart we are logging on to a sort of Cosmic Internet of information that we have only began to understand. It would explain a lot...

So if Pluto "speaks to you," listen and analyze it's message.
Is it relevant or not to your overall observation?
If Pluto flips you off, ignore it and use whatever tools are comfortable for you.
The energy lost in debating this Traditional vs. Modernist issue could power a small community

Love you all... in some way or another.
A*L
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Unread 02-02-2015, 10:09 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Incidentally, star-fans, I read an article about the night sky in February.
Apparently under good viewing conditions, there will be some times when you can see Neptune with a good pair of binoculars.
It's not in this site, but it might be of interest for the naked-eye star gazers here: http://www.nakedeyeplanets.com/#neptune
viewing Neptune with the use of binoculars is not naked-eye star gazing
the link provided clearly states:

'...Neptune is beyond naked eye visiblilty,
but it is just within range of good binoculars
when seen from fully dark locations,
preferably in the absence of moonlight.
A good star map is required to find it.
Medium to large telescopes show it as a tiny pale blue-grey disk....'


Furthermore

Neptune can only be seen from fully dark locations
so if you are resident in a town, city or well-lit village
then Neptune is not visible
even with the assistance of good binoculars

You'll need a good star map



m fully dark locations, preferably in the absence of moonlight. A good star map is required to find it. Medium to large telescopes show it as a tiny pale blue-grey disk.
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  #261  
Unread 02-03-2015, 01:28 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
[deleted quote of attacking comment - Moderator]

Pluto on the Desc. does not always indicate death any more nor less than all of what you had to dig for but in this case it was an appropriate aspect.

From Robert Hand's "Planets In Transit" on the significance of transiting Pluto:

"You can always see its effects very clearly - ranging from machines breaking down and needing repair to full scale destruction and death."

From a prior posting by me elsewhere:

Even with such exactness of planetary placements in relationship with the angles or other planets in a chart there is no exact prediction of what will come to pass. If anybody believes otherwise, I have a life span of almost 70 years, a timed birth chart, and have lived through the conjunctions, sextiles, squares, trines, and oppostions of all of the outer planets to all of my natal planets and angles and would enjoy their interpretations detailing the experiences of any 1 of those transits. A ballpark of positive or negative, easy or difficult, is all that may be forecast without intuition or a 'sixth sense' playing a role. How could it be otherwise when you have but 2 luminaries and 8 planets with which to describe the countless experiences which occur every moment in the world?
The answer to that according to traditional perspective, is that planetary transits are not what define the moments on your life.

First of all:

a) A planet in "transit" according to traditional views, wasn't the regular and constant movement of the planets through your chart.

It was something bound exclusevly to the solar return chart, which in turn is bound to the Profection technique, which determines the Chronocractor (lord of time) for a given period of time.

The concept of a planet transiting the chart, was only taking into consideration when analyzing the solar return chart. For example, if in a given year, on a solar return you had lets say Virgo rising, with mercury placed in the 1st house near the ascendant, that "transit" of mercury would be relevant (obviously the real technique is much more complex than this).

b) The profection technique determines the Chronocractor, which is in a way the reagent planet of the profected sign, for a specific period of time.

For example, when profecting your ascendant into Pisces, the lord of time becomes Jupiter for said given period of time, thus the state of Jupiter in your chart, the transits of jupiter during that year's solar return, and the general "benefic" nature of Jupiter are what modules the period of time in question.

Profections can be done so for years, months, even days.

I've actually tested this a bit, and been testing it since I first learned of them. It is to be honest, one of the most relevant and usefull techniques in astrology for your daily life.

--------------

Thus, in the traditional perspective, it is not daily planetary transits that affect your daily life, but chronocractors. So neither pluto, nor venus, nor mars transits affect a chart, from traditional view of course.
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  #262  
Unread 02-03-2015, 02:04 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by AstroLogical View Post

On a couple occasions, once in the 70's and again in the 80's, I provided some highly accurate chart readings (according to the Natives), only to find out later the basis for the chart calculations given to me were quite wrong.
So, what's that all about?
Something else is going on here on other levels of consciousness. This art/science of astrology is not only just a matter of matter—examining physical objects out there in space and insisting they fit into a scheme of study. It also has to do with our interconnectivity to each other and the universe we "observe."
....
So if Pluto "speaks to you," listen and analyze it's message.
Is it relevant or not to your overall observation?
If Pluto flips you off, ignore it and use whatever tools are comfortable for you.
The energy lost in debating this Traditional vs. Modernist issue could power a small community

Love you all... in some way or another.
A*L
Are you familiar with this book: Geoffrey Cornelius, The Moment of Astrology? He gives examples of the "wrong chart" yielding a correct interpretation, and has a bunch to say about what makes a horoscope radical. (This doesn't mean leftist-- more like able to yield correct information.)
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 02-03-2015, 05:11 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Are you familiar with this book: Geoffrey Cornelius, The Moment of Astrology? He gives examples of the "wrong chart" yielding a correct interpretation, and has a bunch to say about what makes a horoscope radical. (This doesn't mean leftist-- more like able to yield correct information.)

Waybread - I always enjoy your comments and entries...
Many thanks for the tip.
I will make note of the title and author.
Sounds like a good mystery novel ;-)
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

The answer to that according to traditional perspective, is that planetary transits are not what define the moments on your life.

First of all:

a) A planet in "transit" according to traditional views, wasn't the regular and constant movement of the planets through your chart.

It was something bound exclusevly to the solar return chart, which in turn is bound to the Profection technique, which determines the Chronocractor (lord of time) for a given period of time.

The concept of a planet transiting the chart, was only taking into consideration when analyzing the solar return chart. For example, if in a given year, on a solar return you had lets say Virgo rising, with mercury placed in the 1st house near the ascendant, that "transit" of mercury would be relevant (obviously the real technique is much more complex than this).

b) The profection technique determines the Chronocractor, which is in a way the reagent planet of the profected sign, for a specific period of time.

For example, when profecting your ascendant into Pisces, the lord of time becomes Jupiter for said given period of time, thus the state of Jupiter in your chart, the transits of jupiter during that year's solar return, and the general "benefic" nature of Jupiter are what modules the period of time in question.

Profections can be done so for years, months, even days.

I've actually tested this a bit, and been testing it since I first learned of them. It is to be honest, one of the most relevant and usefull techniques in astrology for your daily life.

--------------

Thus, in the traditional perspective, it is not daily planetary transits that affect your daily life, but chronocractors.

I would only add that for a Pisces profected ascendant Venus is also of interest

As for transits, the chronocrator technique reveals exactly why so often transits pass without producing expected events

It is remarkable that any 'transit of pluto' is given so much credence in natal astrology and seems preferred to the seven visible planets
when in fact one orbit of pluto around the sun takes 248 years
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Unread 02-04-2015, 04:00 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

So far we haven't talked about Pluto in mundane astrology, but I have to wonder whether the long-term Uranus-Pluto square is afoot with the rise of Islamic terrorist groups around the globe. (No, I'm not a religious bigot-- I don't think the Muslims whose lives have been devastated by these groups or peaceable Muslims around the world are in any way associated with the terrorists.)
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 02-04-2015, 07:07 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
So far we haven't talked about Pluto in mundane astrology, but I have to wonder whether the long-term Uranus-Pluto square is afoot with the rise of Islamic terrorist groups around the globe. (No, I'm not a religious bigot-- I don't think the Muslims whose lives have been devastated by these groups or peaceable Muslims around the world are in any way associated with the terrorists.)
Living proof... sometimes reality speaks for the stars.
Little interpretation needed...
And thank you for highlighting the difference between Muslims and A**Holes.
At this point "Islamic terrorists" is just to polite.
What was that Nostradamus was suppose to have said about the third antichrist; coming from Islamic decent and bringing terror and brutality not known since the
Mongols?
This maybe it!
And where does it go from here?
Is there an astrological "stop sign" anywhere?
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  #267  
Unread 02-04-2015, 07:08 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Given that "mundane" in the traditional way is almost an abandoned art...I would like to ask, what is the modern technique towards mundane?
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  #268  
Unread 02-04-2015, 08:24 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

So far we haven't talked about Pluto in mundane astrology,


but I have to wonder whether the long-term Uranus-Pluto square is afoot with the rise of Islamic terrorist groups around the globe.
pluto and mundane astrology have indeed just been discussed on the page prior to this one
i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post

It must be noted that i follow mundane astrology,
so can be rusty with birth charts,
but i love Robert Hand, and always follow his links to mundane astrology,
as an overall astrologer i find him the best, for fixed stars i follow Bernadette Brady!

With the Ingress Charts above, i find the Washington Chart fascinating regarding the Ukrainian Crises,
tap on chart on previous link thread section to make larger.

Robert Hand uses Pluto in mundane astrology,
and JupiterAsc will be interested in the parans regarding Washington DC , as Jupiter and Alnilam, Belt of Orion are rising at location at 12:53:06.

Obviously different ways to value mundane astrology,
but Robert Hand wouldn't have come by insight by not using Pluto!
My response to Monk
is quoted below

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

One orbit of the sun by pluto requires 248 years approximately

therefore

no human being can experience a pluto return in one lifetime

thus the dwarf planet has nothing to add to natal astrology
since the seven classical planets already provide answers

and even for MUNDANE ASTROLOGICAL DELINEATION the seven classical planets provide more than sufficient data


pluto is only one object of many similar objects in the Kuiper Belt
many more similar objects are being discovered daily
so if dwarf planet pluto is relevant then so are all the other dwarf planets
yet no one is creating a furore and demanding that all dwarf planets form part of natal chart delineation
i.e.
seven classical planets provide sufficient insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

(No, I'm not a religious bigot
-- I don't think the Muslims whose lives have been devastated by these groups
or peaceable Muslims around the world
are in any way associated with the terrorists.)

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  #269  
Unread 02-05-2015, 03:44 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

On mundane astrology, see: http://www.amazon.ca/Mundane-Astrolo.../dp/1933303115 . Unique_astrology is our resident expert.

I will get back on my mystery chart in a day or so if I don't hear from Konrad (or any other takers) by then.
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  #270  
Unread 02-05-2015, 06:19 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
On mundane astrology, see: http://www.amazon.ca/Mundane-Astrolo.../dp/1933303115 . Unique_astrology is our resident expert.

I will get back on my mystery chart in a day or so if I don't hear from Konrad (or any other takers) by then.
What I meant is if the modern technique differs in anything from the classical technique of casting a chart for the given year... (aside from using the outer planets of course)
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  #271  
Unread 02-05-2015, 08:35 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

I follow a direct line, usaully i'm not interested in birth charts, only mundane astrology, i comment as i'm looking for reasons for my mundane comments regarding this, obviously i am very interested in JupiterAsc comments, please note my area of learning was before scientists de-valued Pluto, many comments seem to be the death! Very Pluto obsessed!

My own observations is perhaps Pluto may be at issue with this thread, i tread a straight line with parans, when i issue a thread i don't go much beyond, however i find it disturbing that that JupiterAsc will quote Robert Hand as nothing much, but will quote him as influencial on another thread, i don't do that with parans?

Forget about Pluto, i'm an astronomer and will deal with pluto influence but deny regarding my birth chart regarding fixed star influence, thanks to JupiterAsc, obviously we will never agree, perhaps i look at Pluto Influence, perhaps i don't, i look to answers!

But i don't look to promote Robert Hand by JupiterAsc, by 18th Post approx. below, but then say he is rubbish by link here, i follow direct symbolism by paran.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80290

I'm very interested in JupiterAsc thoughts, however i can see other reasons for my observations about parans regarding my birth chart not related to Pluto, perhaps others need attack my observations regarding parans, Olympic Parans may help, i'm just trying to get to the truth!

Last edited by Monk; 02-05-2015 at 08:44 AM.
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  #272  
Unread 02-05-2015, 10:24 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

On mundane astrology, see: http://www.amazon.ca/Mundane-Astrolo.../dp/1933303115 . Unique_astrology is our resident expert.

On MUNDANE ASTROLOGY


ASTROLOGY OF THE WORLD I & II
http://www.bendykes.com/aw2.php


Ingresses and conjunctional theory from the Persians

Astrology of the World II: Revolutions & History
is the second in a trilogy of writings
from medieval astrologers, focusing on astrological theories of history,
mundane time lords and predictive techniques,
Saturn-Jupiter conjunctions, and annual ingresses.

Many texts have been translated directly from Arabic,
and authors include Masha'allah, Abu Ma'shar, Sahl, 'Umar al-Tabari and Kankah, al-Qabisi, and al-Rijal (Haly Abenragel).

After an extensive Introduction with helpful charts and tables, Part 1 provides short summaries and principles.
Part 2 includes three works by Masha'allah on ingresses and conjunctional theory,
and a work attributed to Abu Ma'shar containing chart examples from Sahl.
Dr. Benjamin Dykes also provides tables of Saturn-Jupiter conjunctions,
and several mundane examples from Sahl b. Bishr, with historical commentary.
Throughout, Dr. Dykes provides helpful introductory comments
and analysis
to aid the modern reader in this complex subject
.

To view a PDF excerpt, click here.
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  #273  
Unread 02-05-2015, 10:36 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Although BobZemco no longer posts he did provide us with the basic Mundane Astrology Hierarchy of Charts

i.e.
Hierarchy of charts for mundane astrological practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post

Astrology was created to know the Fate of Kings & Kingdoms,
and then evolved to the Fate of Nations & Men ---
Astrology is all about predicting...
it is a predictive model that uses predictive methods


Here you go.........


Grand Conjunction 1702

21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"

Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Malefic 1976
12 May 1976
9:51:13 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Conjunction 2000
28 May 2000
11:07:39 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

2001 Aries Ingress
20 Mar 2001
8:35:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

....Insert Your Natal Chart Here.....

That is where your place is in the hierarchy of charts.

RSVP

Read, Study & Vigilantly Practice


Just some house-cleaning....this chart....

Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

....is now the operating Malefic Chart until....

Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

....and then this will become operative....

Great Mutation (Air) & Great Conjunction 2020
21 Dec 2020
1:24:22 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Note:
Relocate the chart(s) to your country
and for maximum accuracy, use the "foundation point"


eg:

Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti;
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo;
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid
etc etc etc
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  #274  
Unread 02-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

I will get back on my mystery chart in a day or so
if I don't hear from Konrad
(or any other takers) by then.
For those who have not noticed
since yesterday,
the following info is clearly displayed with Konrad's Avatar

'Konrad
Account Closed'
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  #275  
Unread 02-05-2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post

I follow a direct line, usaully i'm not interested in birth charts, only mundane astrology,
i comment as i'm looking for reasons for my mundane comments regarding this,

obviously i am very interested in JupiterAsc comments,
please note my area of learning was before scientists de-valued Pluto, many comments seem to be the death! Very Pluto obsessed!

My own observations is perhaps Pluto may be at issue with this thread,
i tread a straight line with parans, when i issue a thread i don't go much beyond,
however i find it disturbing that that JupiterAsc will quote Robert Hand as nothing much,
but will quote him as influencial on another thread,
i don't do that with parans?

Forget about Pluto, i'm an astronomer
and will deal with pluto influence
but deny regarding my birth chart regarding fixed star influence, thanks to JupiterAsc,
obviously we will never agree, perhaps i look at Pluto Influence,
perhaps i don't, i look to answers!

But i don't look to promote Robert Hand by JupiterAsc,
by 18th Post approx. below, but then say he is rubbish by link here,

i follow direct symbolism by paran.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80290

I'm very interested in JupiterAsc thoughts, however i can see other reasons for my observations about parans regarding my birth chart not related to Pluto,
perhaps others need attack my observations regarding parans, Olympic Parans may help, i'm just trying to get to the truth!
Hi Monk 'finding the truth' re: confusion about Robert Hand

on that thread you linked to I state
at the 18th post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Kepler is now an online College
its chairman
is the well-respected and world-renowned astrologer Robert Hand

Robert Hand is indeed a well-respected and world-renowned very successful astrologer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

A lot of talk about Kepler here, but no one has really stated outright that Kepler did not give degrees in astrology. What it was accredited to do was offer Associate of Arts, Bachelor of Arts and a Master of Arts in Eastern and Western Traditions: The History, Philosophy and Transmission of Astrology.

That is certainly nothing to scoff at, we could all use some additional lessons in the history, philosophy, and transmission of astrology. However, Kepler was never handing out degrees in horary or natal astrology or whatever. That would never have gotten accredited by a state board because astrology is popularly thought of as a pseudoscience.

I'm not completely sure what the ultimate issue was that removed Kepler's accreditation. Chris Brennan (who attended and graduated) mentioned a change in Washington State law and Lehman's (who taught) speech at that same graduation implies that it was because of the college's association with astrology.

That all being said, Kepler is much more free to actually teach astrological technique now that it does certifications. There's also ISAR's and NCGR's certifications for the modern psychological bent, and there is the School of Traditional Astrology run by Deb Houlding and Chris Brennan has his course in Hellenistic astrology. So there are definitely options.

But those don't necessarily make you a professional astrologer.

based on ROBERT HANDS's own comments
made during an intereview with Chris Brennan on this FREE PODCAST available freely online

http://theastrologypodcast.com/2013/...nal-astrology/
Robert Hand himself says on the podcast
that he originally wrote the book 'PLANETS IN TRANSIT' as a computer program
which he sold to astro.com
and
the original has morphed/been 'tweaked'

http://theastrologypodcast.com/2013/...nal-astrology/

Modern astrologers quote Robert Hand's PLANETS IN TRANSIT in particular with reference to dwarf planet pluto
and I merely highlight
Robert Hand himself has obviously distanced himself from that book
if you listen to remarks he made during the astrology podcast interview with Chris Brennan
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2013/...nal-astrology/

QUOTE

Robert Hand, is one of the world's leading and most esteemed astrologers with over 38 years of experience.
He leads a full service consulting practice for individual and corporate clients
http://www.arhatmedia.com/consultations.html

In his professional practice
Robert Hand uses tropical, heliocentric, sidereal, uranian, cosmobiological and in mundo techniques.
He also combines modern with ancient and medieval methods.

dr. farr combines modern with ancient methods
as well as with Vedic and other astrological techniques
and refers to himself as an ECLECTIC astrologer

I'm simply stating the obvious
i.e.
Robert Hand appears to be an ECLECTIC astrologer
rather than either a modern or a traditional astrologer


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