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  #151  
Unread 01-31-2015, 03:04 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

I hate being brutal, i lose friends, but honestly i can't help giving a Scorpio sting, sometimes, obviously it is my nature, i was asked to post my birth details, mess with me too much, i go for it!

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  #152  
Unread 01-31-2015, 05:22 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Anyone still "confused about Pluto"?
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  #153  
Unread 01-31-2015, 05:37 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Oh, gosh, Monk-- I would never think that an interest in fixed stars is about ego!

I think we get bitten by an astrology bug, but it's not the same bug for everyone. I wish you all the best, wherever your studies may take you.

Speaking of which, Dirius, maybe I'll switch to sidereal astrology. Jupiter, no longer in its fall, will be domiciled in Sagittarius; and then my moon picks up a Cancer domicile, as well.

This is part of the reason why I don't have a "one size fits all" belief bout astrological schools of thought.
I can only recommend using sidereal and whole sign houses. If you should switch to sidereal, however, there's the problem of what is the 'correct' Ayanamsa to be solved.
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  #154  
Unread 01-31-2015, 05:44 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Anyone still "confused about Pluto"?
Personally, I'm not quite sure what this thread has actually accomplished apart from making clear who's a traditionalist and who's a modernist. If I remember correctly (I can't find that post anymore), someone suggested somewhere that Pluto was just a combination of Mars and Saturn, which I think is an interesting but not actually valid statement. So, maybe you can tell us how you see Pluto influences differing from Mars and Saturn influences. I think this would actually get us ahead a bit in the discussion about the 'usefulness' of Pluto in a chart.
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  #155  
Unread 01-31-2015, 07:14 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Muchacho, I've previously discussed Pluto in a way that distinguishes it from Mars and Saturn, particularly with my post of 1/27 on page 3, and of 1/29 on p. 4.

I think it's incumbent upon the doubters to show how Mars and Saturn precisely replicate Pluto.
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  #156  
Unread 01-31-2015, 08:12 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Muchacho, I've previously discussed Pluto in a way that distinguishes it from Mars and Saturn, particularly with my post of 1/27 on page 3, and of 1/29 on p. 4.

I think it's incumbent upon the doubters to show how Mars and Saturn precisely replicate Pluto.
Not really. The established planets are the seven visible ones - it is one aspect of practice that both camps use - if you want to add more bodies to the rulership system and in general practice, the onus of proof is actually on the person proposing the modification.

I am willing to look at charts where some think Pluto is doing something and showing how I would read it, but it would have to be AA rated charts that are able to be made public and the happenings being shown would have to be more substantial than inner-transformation. The timing of events is particularly interesting because there is no ambiguity there, Traditional astrology is very able to pinpoint which planet is doing what at what time. Bearing in mind your claims about criminals and more external factors, I think it is possible to do something like that. Since I don't use Pluto, I would only be able to participate not offer any charts myself.
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  #157  
Unread 01-31-2015, 10:54 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Monk View Post

Please Note JupiterAsc, i was born on 08/08/1956, at 13:59pm, in London, M.C. is 29*:32' Leo, and Regulus is conjunct M.C.,

Pluto is 27*53' Leo,
thus approx. 1 Degree 39' from M.C., you are at fault with calcalation


How can you with planets regarding astrology think of Pluto not being close to M.C. whether or not it has influence?

The ecliptic because planets are close to the Sun, are how we value them on any astrology programme, no reason to mention ecliptic with planets that revolve around the Sun???

I'm confused by your statement.


The problem arises when we use the ecliptic for stars that don't orbit the Sun!
Monk, confusion appears to have been caused by a comment on your chart that was made by Konrad

i.e.
I did not make the comment, Konrad did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post

For what it's worth, I have noted that planets on the angles which have stars conjoined tend to colour the manifestations of the star involved. With Jupiter, Mercury and the Moon there, Mars in aversion and cadent I would expect less pronounced Martial traits in Monk's life. This sort of thing is definitely a good research project, one for the future as far as I personally am concerned. I'm not too fond of Ecliptial degree conjunctions of stars though unless the star is on the Ecliptic, so even if I saw some use in Pluto, I doubt I would use it with stars as it is so far from the Ecliptic a lot of the time.

In Monk's case, Pluto is over 10 degrees north of the Ecliptic,
the Moon around 4 south of it,
so even she I wouldn't consider as modifying Regulus too much.

Mercury and Jupiter though, for sure. In fact, looking at that conjunction in Porpyhrius Magus,
if it wasn't for both being under the beams, it would have been a very powerful sign in a nativity.
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  #158  
Unread 01-31-2015, 11:04 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post

Obviously my Moon is approx. 15 degrees off M.C. in Virgo, i have no idea what chart you are looking at, if you quote people make sure the research is correct, rule No.1.

Sorry for being brutal JupiterAsc, but i don't like sloppy thinking or research especially with my own chart!

I hope we are still talking?....humour?

Monk I appreciate the humour of this confusion
caused due to the fact Konrad made a comment
and then I simply quoted it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post

I hate being brutal, i lose friends, but honestly i can't help giving a Scorpio sting,
sometimes, obviously it is my nature, i was asked to post my birth details, mess with me too much, i go for it!
Nothing you have posted is brutal in any way Monk
instead there is confusion
regarding the comment
which you need to discuss with Konrad
because the comment is made originally by Konrad
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  #159  
Unread 01-31-2015, 11:53 AM
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There really is nothing to discuss about it, at least not in this thread anyway. Monk and I look at charts differently, that's all. I agree that nothing is brutal, I have been called worse than a "sloppy thinker", but I wouldn't expect a Libra rising capable of being very offensive anyway!
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  #160  
Unread 01-31-2015, 06:25 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Not really. The established planets are the seven visible ones - it is one aspect of practice that both camps use - if you want to add more bodies to the rulership system and in general practice, the onus of proof is actually on the person proposing the modification.

I am willing to look at charts where some think Pluto is doing something and showing how I would read it, but it would have to be AA rated charts that are able to be made public and the happenings being shown would have to be more substantial than inner-transformation. The timing of events is particularly interesting because there is no ambiguity there, Traditional astrology is very able to pinpoint which planet is doing what at what time. Bearing in mind your claims about criminals and more external factors, I think it is possible to do something like that. Since I don't use Pluto, I would only be able to participate not offer any charts myself.
Konrad, this debate has been over for decades for modern astrologers. If you or other orthodox neo-traditionalists do not wish to use Pluto, nobody insists that you should.

But you will do better to make a strong case for the accuracy of your own methods, rather than attempting to discredit astrologers who use Pluto, by inference. And also, please explain why many astrologers who essentially use traditional techniques will nevertheless use the modern outers as supplementary data points.

Your challenge is patently unequal. You gave a completely blind chart for us to read, yet you are unwilling to take up the same challenge yourself. Obviously the chart of a public figure, replete with biographical information on-line, can be read as an exercise in confirmation bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Are you willing to take up the same challenge that I accepted from you?

And why couldn't a good orthodox neo-traditional astrologer say something about the native's inner state? Surely with a public figure, you will find interviews and autobiographical materials to consider. Or is this something orthodox neo-traditional astrology doesn't do very well because it precisely lacks the modern outers?

I am beginning to sense a trick in the chart that you posted: did you deliberately post the most un-Plutonian Plutonian chart you could locate because you knew you could shoot down any interpretations focusing on that Pluto conjunct ASC? Is the birth time an AA rating? (See Astrodienst Astro-DataBankfor the definition.) Say that I am merely imagining things, Konrad.

And then, please tell us more about the man behind your mystery chart, and your relationship to him. For example, what was his occupation, socio-economic class, and education level? How well do/did you know him? I say this because I would like to see more convincing evidence that Pluto is inoperative in his chart than I see in your laconic responses.

I'd be happy to have you read my father's chart, posted above. I will be as honest and as accepting as I can be about your interpretation. Unlike your "blind" chart, I've already dropped a few clues in previous posts. Unfortunately I don't have a birth time, but IMO a good astrologer can read a chart without one; or use one of the rectification methods espoused by Valens or other astrologers.
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Last edited by waybread; 01-31-2015 at 06:29 PM.
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  #161  
Unread 01-31-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Konrad, this debate has been over for decades for modern astrologers. If you or other orthodox neo-traditionalists do not wish to use Pluto, nobody insists that you should.

But you will do better to make a strong case for the accuracy of your own methods, rather than attempting to discredit astrologers who use Pluto, by inference. And also, please explain why many astrologers who essentially use traditional techniques will nevertheless use the modern outers as supplementary data points.

Your challenge is patently unequal. You gave a completely blind chart for us to read, yet you are unwilling to take up the same challenge yourself. Obviously the chart of a public figure, replete with biographical information on-line, can be read as an exercise in confirmation bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Are you willing to take up the same challenge that I accepted from you?

And why couldn't a good orthodox neo-traditional astrologer say something about the native's inner state? Surely with a public figure, you will find interviews and autobiographical materials to consider. Or is this something orthodox neo-traditional astrology doesn't do very well because it precisely lacks the modern outers?

I am beginning to sense a trick in the chart that you posted: did you deliberately post the most un-Plutonian Plutonian chart you could locate because you knew you could shoot down any interpretations focusing on that Pluto conjunct ASC? Is the birth time an AA rating? (See Astrodienst Astro-DataBankfor the definition.) Say that I am merely imagining things, Konrad.

And then, please tell us more about the man behind your mystery chart, and your relationship to him. For example, what was his occupation, socio-economic class, and education level? How well do/did you know him? I say this because I would like to see more convincing evidence that Pluto is inoperative in his chart than I see in your laconic responses.

I'd be happy to have you read my father's chart, posted above. I will be as honest and as accepting as I can be about your interpretation. Unlike your "blind" chart, I've already dropped a few clues in previous posts. Unfortunately I don't have a birth time, but IMO a good astrologer can read a chart without one; or use one of the rectification methods espoused by Valens or other astrologers.
Waybread, way to miss the point. The only one trying to discredit anyone here is you. The reason I posted the chart is because Monk wanted one with Pluto bang on an angle, it is the only one I had. I'm glad your true feelings are out now, but you shouldn't be so bitter about being so wrong in regard to the chart I posted. As I said, reading a chart blind is hard and completely unnatural and I respect you for doing it, but to try and insult me and rather weirdly, Vettius Valens, should be beneath you. I thought we were getting on so well too!

Your suggestion of practicing Horoscopic astrology without a horoscope doesn't interest me. Anyone who claims to be able to read a Horoscopic astrological chart without a horoscope should be avoided. I never suggested a public figure, by the way, only that the information about the native could be revealed publically. In truth, I was not happy with how my own chart offering went. But forget about it, I will just go back to my blog and talk to myself on it. It is much less fun, but at least I can get some chart-reading done.

As for the chart I posted, I have already said I won't talk about deeply personal things, and I said that before you delineated it, so the sour grapes now is a bit of a surprise. As for picking an "unplutonian" life, that would be impossible since I do not know what a "plutonian" life would look like. Your responses outside of Pluto were wrong frankly, it isn't a big deal, we are all wrong, but accusing me of lying isn't going to make you right. If you didn't like the level of detail in my responses, you should have said instead of thanking me. Ultimately, I couldn't care less about what anyone else practices astrologically or what they think of my own practice. I'm not looking for converts or followers, just some nice chart reading which is what I thought we had. Honestly, I am a little disappointed you have resorted to this, but I will survive.
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  #162  
Unread 01-31-2015, 08:03 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Konrad, when people have to resort to derogatory personal remarks, they have already lost the argument. Hey, this is an astrology Internet forum, with people who don't know each other personally. So there is nothing to take personally.

You posted a chart. I gave you a reading. It is completely fair and above-board for you now to state (a) something about this person's circumstances other than your laconic remarks, (b) to indicate how well you know him and (c) whether this chart would earn an AA rating. This is standard practice, to do some sort of "unveiling," in mystery chart exercises. Maybe I waited too long to ask for what I assumed would be forthcoming?

I assumed this isn't your chart, but if it is, is there a problem?

A good astrologer can give a decent, if not ideal, reading without a birth time. The moon might move back or forth 6 degrees with a default noon birth time, but we allow for that. I note that Ptolemy scarcely used houses at all, yet he went down in history as one of the founders of horoscopic astrology.

Where did I accuse you of lying? I put a proposition to you, asking you to deny it. Fair is fair.

Konrad, I will search my files for a chart of another Plutonian person whose birth time is known, but who cannot be located through the Astro-DataBank. You will have to take my word on his/her life details. I would provide enough to get you started, but the rest would be up to you. These would be more generous than you offered with your blind chart.

Are you up for the challenge?

However, if you don't know what Plutonian/un-Plutonian would look like, I am not sure why you are so certain that Pluto is irrelevant in the horoscope.

I look forward to hearing from you on these points.
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  #163  
Unread 01-31-2015, 08:27 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Konrad, when people have to resort to derogatory personal remarks, they have already lost the argument. Hey, this is an astrology Internet forum, with people who don't know each other personally. So there is nothing to take personally.
I don't know what this means. It seems to condtradict your previous behaviour, but don't explain, it is fine.

Quote:
You posted a chart. I gave you a reading. It is completely fair and above-board for you now to state (a) something about this person's circumstances other than your laconic remarks, (b) to indicate how well you know him and (c) whether this chart would earn an AA rating. This is standard practice, to do some sort of "unveiling," in mystery chart exercises. Maybe I waited too long to ask for what I assumed would be forthcoming?
My laconic remarks were fine before, and I have already said a lot about the person's life: his siblings, relationship to parents, some inner stuff that I know he feels, but really I was responding to your viewpoints since this wasn't a mystery chart exercise, but a demonstration of how Pluto supposedly works. I already said I know him very well and I wouldn't even use a non-AA chart to practice on, so I would never give one to another person. We are fortunate here in Scotland that birth-times are recorded on birth certificates and are usually pretty accurate. You won't find too many rounded birth-times.

Quote:
I assumed this isn't your chart, but if it is, is there a problem?
You know it is not mine since you know I am not 60 years old.

Quote:
A good astrologer can give a decent, if not ideal, reading without a birth time. The moon might move back or forth 6 degrees with a default noon birth time, but we allow for that. I note that Ptolemy scarcely used houses at all, yet he went down in history as one of the founders of horoscopic astrology.
A good astrologer wouldn't even look at a chart without a horoscope. You may want to read Ptolemy again. Besides, he is not representative of the astrology of his time.


Quote:
Konrad, I will search my files for a chart of another Plutonian person whose birth time is known, but who cannot be located through the Astro-DataBank. You will have to take my word on his/her life details. I would provide enough to get you started, but the rest would be up to you. These would be more generous than you offered with your blind chart.

Are you up for the challenge?
Go for it, I will get to it when I can. I am a responsible undergraduate now and I have essays due for the next couple of weeks. But your own language here betrays your view, mine was not a "challenge", as I said, it was an opportunity for a demonstration of what should have been a significantly plutonian chart. You paint a picture of me and fight with that, I think you should listen more.

Quote:
However, if you don't know what Plutonian/un-Plutonian would look like, I am not sure why you are so certain that Pluto is irrelevant in the horoscope.
I guess my tongue was so firmly in my cheek that my meaning was indiscernible?
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Unread 01-31-2015, 08:27 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Konrad, what I meant was that I believe that you have lost an argument when you have to resort to derogatory personal remarks.

The rest of your comments do not hold water.

Actually, Konrad, I do not retain a memory of your older posts. Might be my age.

Ok, Konrad, Dirius, and any other takers.

I from my files the chart of a man with Pluto conjunct MC. The birth time would be rated AA: from a hospital record, not rounded. This is someone of my acquaintance, university-educated, self-employed but ambitious to start his own firm.

What sorts of sports and films does he like, and why? How does he cope with adversity? Within his profession, what sort of work does he specialize in/or at least, has had the most experience in?

Please explain the methods through which you answered the questions.
I will judiciously supply additional information upon request.

Over to you, guys.
Attached Images
File Type: png Pluto mystern chart..png (89.2 KB, 9 views)
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Last edited by waybread; 01-31-2015 at 08:32 PM.
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  #165  
Unread 01-31-2015, 08:42 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Konrad, what I meant was that I believe that you have lost an argument when you have to resort to derogatory personal remarks.

The rest of your comments do not hold water.

Actually, Konrad, I do not retain a memory of your older posts. Might be my age.

Ok, Konrad, Dirius, and any other takers.

I from my files the chart of a man with Pluto conjunct MC. The birth time would be rated AA: from a hospital record, not rounded. This is someone of my acquaintance, university-educated, self-employed but ambitious to start his own firm.

What sorts of sports and films does he like, and why? How does he cope with adversity? Within his profession, what sort of work does he specialize in/or at least, has had the most experience in?

Please explain the methods through which you answered the questions.
I will judiciously supply additional information upon request.

Over to you, guys.
Would be interesting to view any comments by the OP
or any other astrologer posting on this thread who delineates using dwarf planet pluto
on which sports and films this person likes
as well as their profession, ways of coping with adversity, specialisation et al


because as Konrad already stated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post

The established planets are the seven visible ones

- it is one aspect of practice that both camps use

- if you want to add more bodies to the rulership system and in general practice, the onus of proof is actually on the person proposing the modification.
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Unread 01-31-2015, 08:42 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Can you post the details? When I get round to it, I would like to run it in my own choice of zodiac and on my own screen. I would also say that I am not going to attempt to talk about his favourite sport or movies, and how he copes with adveristy is such a vague statement that it doesn't interest me but I will try to talk of his work.
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Unread 01-31-2015, 08:53 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Konrad, what I meant was that I believe that you have lost an argument when you have to resort to derogatory personal remarks.

and yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

I am beginning to sense a trick in the chart that you posted:

did you deliberately post the most un-Plutonian Plutonian chart you could locate

because you knew you could shoot down any interpretations focusing on that Pluto conjunct ASC?

Is the birth time an AA rating? (See Astrodienst Astro-DataBankfor the definition.)
Say that I am merely imagining things, Konrad.
regarding your request for a rectification
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

I'd be happy to have you read my father's chart, posted above.
I will be as honest and as accepting as I can be about your interpretation.
Unlike your "blind" chart, I've already dropped a few clues in previous posts.
Unfortunately I don't have a birth time, but IMO a good astrologer can read a chart without one;
or use one of the rectification methods espoused by Valens or other astrologers.
Since Konrad is a busy undergraduate
and
since you are clearly unable to do the rectification yourself
then consider obtaining a traditional rectification from
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/tradrect.html
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Unread 01-31-2015, 10:28 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
. . . He uses what works the most effectively with no care for appearance or style. His is very much a life dominated by this Saturn.

and

. . . As I said, I think he holds some regrets due to previous inaction or fear of taking a risk.
Not surprising as Saturn is the the most angular planet in his chart being just barely over 3 degrees from the IC while Pluto is almost 13 degrees above the Asc. . See attachment with true body positions,
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File Type: gif Anon Pan.gif (100.5 KB, 14 views)

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Unread 01-31-2015, 10:36 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
Not surprising as Saturn is the the most angular planet in his chart being just barely over 3 degrees from the IC while Pluto is almost 13 degrees above the Asc. . See attachment with true body positions,
Well yes, we agree on the influence of Saturn, but for different reasons. [deleted comment since poster has anonymize chart - Moderator]

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Unread 02-01-2015, 01:25 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Waybread, below is Monk's post from earlier in the thread asking only for tight Pluto alignment charts, which is why Konrad posted the chart he posted.

It wasn't done to try to 'trick' you or anyone else, nor was it a challenge chart. It was done because Monk wanted charts with Pluto smack on an angle. That's all. And as you said, when people resort to personal attacks they are often losing the argument, so please stop attacking Konrad.

I think you were very brave to try to read the chart blind, and if it's any comfort, I would have been wrong about the bulk of it, too. Most people who aren't debunkers don't expect astrologers to do stunning blind readings, and when there's a proper mystery chart (which this wasn't), it's usually put up for fun and education.

Please stop with this. It does no-one any good, and I can't see where you were being attacked at all - nobody was. We all have strong opinions, perhaps, but people weren't being hostile. Besides, it would be exhausting to have to categorise everyone as an 'orthodox neo-traditionalist astrologer' or an 'orthodox modern humanistic astrologer', or whatever.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Obviously JupiterAsc,

I'm interested in research over Pluto, but as you know if i show research it is more than just a few charts, thus i'm interested in tight alignments.

My Birth chart is on link below but is about quintiles which isn't the subject here, but as the first to show a tight M.C/Pluto alignment about approx, one and a half degrees.

I'm not trying to create dispute but enlarge data pool, thus would like others to post tight Pluto alignments!

http://www.mauricefernandez.com/phpb...f=2&t=2&t=1989
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Unread 02-01-2015, 03:48 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Gosh, Oddity-- I can't think of what I've said that could be construed as an attacking post, nor do I find 90% of Konrad's posts in general to be attacking. However, I might construe your latest to me as an attacking post, and have reported it as such. If the mods agree, we'll see a bunch of this material disappear.

I will stand up for the sort of modern astrology in which I believe, and can understand why some people on this thread might not like it.

What "orthodox" means is strictly conservative or highly traditional. Obviously, some traditional astrologers do use modern outers, but more as additional points in the chart that do not fit into the system of traditional dignities. I explained in a previous post why I sometimes use the term "neo-traditional." Traditional astrology virtually died in the 18th century. Astrologers who picked it up after ca. 1990 are modern people addressing issues of modern society. Cf. the distinction between classical and neo-classical architecture.

To the real Tim Wilson, if you are reading this-- I blocked personal messages from tcwilson until the troll issue was resolved. Once I am aware that the troll (leviathan?) has been countered, you'll be back in my PMs whenever or if you care to send me any.

To Konrad-- I am not being disrespectful when I say I do not recall some of your posts or cannot be expected to go back and look for them. At this stage in my life, I believe that I am dealing with a cognitive impairment. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...n/con-20026392 If it gets worse, I will seek medical treatment for it. But please do not become annoyed if I lack perfect recall of your recent, let alone all of, your posts. I sincerely wish that my memory were better than it is.
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Unread 02-01-2015, 04:24 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Waybread, it was me you wanted to report; not Monk. This is what I was talking about with your attacking tone towards Konrad.

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post

But you will do better to make a strong case for the accuracy of your own methods, rather than attempting to discredit astrologers who use Pluto, by inference. And also, please explain why many astrologers who essentially use traditional techniques will nevertheless use the modern outers as supplementary data points.
Nobody was trying to 'discredit' anyone. Traditional astrologers will discredit Pluto, but so far as I know, he's not an astrologer.

Quote:
Your challenge is patently unequal. You gave a completely blind chart for us to read, yet you are unwilling to take up the same challenge yourself. Obviously the chart of a public figure, replete with biographical information on-line, can be read as an exercise in confirmation bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Are you willing to take up the same challenge that I accepted from you?
Nobody posted a challenge to you. It was simply asked if the chart needed Pluto to make a proper delineation.

Quote:
I am beginning to sense a trick in the chart that you posted: did you deliberately post the most un-Plutonian Plutonian chart you could locate because you knew you could shoot down any interpretations focusing on that Pluto conjunct ASC? Is the birth time an AA rating? (See Astrodienst Astro-DataBankfor the definition.) Say that I am merely imagining things, Konrad.
Again, it was not a trick or a trick chart. Monk asked for charts with Pluto smack on the angle. Konrad posted one in direct response to Monk's request, and so stated in the thread a few pages back.

But if the admin decides it's me who's attacking, so be it.
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Unread 02-01-2015, 04:44 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Hi everyone, with Wilson TC watching, i'm at least polite on threads, obviously i have never had warnings or posts cut, in my stay at community astrology forum.

Konrad Wrote" There really is nothing to discuss about it, at least not in this thread anyway, Monk and i look at charts differently, thats all.

I agree that nothing is brutal, i've been called worse than a Sloppy Thinker", but i wouldn't expect a LIBRA Rising capable of being offensive anyway"!!!!

Both JupiterAsc and TC Wilson thanked Konrad for this useful post!

OBVIOUSLY I'M SCORPIO RISING, so am now finding this thread sloppy in extreme, and have no wish to continue!

Hopefully JupiterAsc, you will in future as a buddy, check information before you thank posters!

In a polite way i hope this is brutal enough, a sting can be polite!
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Unread 02-01-2015, 04:54 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Konrad, what I meant was that I believe that you have lost an argument when you have to resort to derogatory personal remarks.

The rest of your comments do not hold water.

Actually, Konrad, I do not retain a memory of your older posts. Might be my age.

Ok, Konrad, Dirius, and any other takers.

I from my files the chart of a man with Pluto conjunct MC. The birth time would be rated AA: from a hospital record, not rounded. This is someone of my acquaintance, university-educated, self-employed but ambitious to start his own firm.

What sorts of sports and films does he like, and why? How does he cope with adversity? Within his profession, what sort of work does he specialize in/or at least, has had the most experience in?

Please explain the methods through which you answered the questions.
I will judiciously supply additional information upon request.

Over to you, guys.
I must say though, that "personality/psichological" astrology to me is redundant, since I focus more on predictive techniques, which I find is the real use of astrology.

Yet, the problem with this types of questions is that, we can tell you "what he could be good at", not what his actual job is.

For example:

- the chart with a Virgo 10th house, capricorn 2nd, and saturn placed in virgo, would make an ideal accountant (or something along the lines of money investments), further reinforced from the sextile that saturn recieves from moon (8th house, money from other people). Perhaps banking area or handling people's investments?

Yet, that doesn't imply that is his actual job. Furthermore, the category in which we can place lots of those things are plenty. In the terms of skill, its easy to say someone is skilled with numbers, or with crafts, or acting, etc. It is a very different thing to pin-point a specific profesion, for example if someone is a medical doctor or a biochemist.

Now the "movie" part of his interests seems to me a bit silly example. But ok, with Aries as his 5th, and venus natural ruler of pleasures, both in libra. Air sign, implies action of the mind, with the romantic venusian touch.
Obviously I've never seen a person that has "one" and only one movie genre they like but...perhaps:

-) psychological thriller - (like crime/detective movies) with a bit of drama/love movies?

With mars in detriment, and venus powerfull, and mostly in Libra, could be with something about doing "justice".

But again, I suck mostly at personality reading (never really focused on it much).

Did I miss completly?
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Unread 02-01-2015, 05:24 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Dirius, thank you so much for responding! I'll wait to reveal more about the person behind my "mystery chart" until I see whether or not anyone else (like Konrad) will try to read it.

My questions may sound a bit odd, but they relate to where I think Pluto does show up in this person's life. I've got posts on pp. 3 and 4 where I try to explain how I think Pluto operates in a horoscope-- which give away massive tips on this chart-- and then there is a lot of material on the Internet, as well.

In terms of sports or movies-- we kind of have to deconstruct what it is about a particular sport or genre that would likely appeal to someone with a particular placement.
To give a facile zodiac-sign example, we might imagine a Mars in Aries liking heavy metal music, or a Capricorn Venus preferring the old classics.

But I think you hit a rather hidden nail on the head. Modern astrology (and it is not all "modern psychological astrology", by any means,) deals more with the person's character or personality-- or even life-purpose. Many modern astrologers do focus on predictive or horary work, but so often, people want to understand themselves better. They want to know if they can become something more in this life. These questions of personal self-awareness are what modern astrology developed to address.

Any more takers? Konrad?
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Last edited by waybread; 02-01-2015 at 05:28 AM.
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