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  #26  
Unread 07-01-2013, 08:42 PM
InvokerFromYA InvokerFromYA is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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Indeed, it makes no sense.

A planet becomes more and more combust, burned and damaged... until suddenly, when the planet is totally engulfed, it becomes mega awesome wicked?

I don't find that logical.

A study of the astronomy involved may interest those who wish to explore the concept further.

Well much is not completely "logical" in humans limited minds.. And yeah I kinda see that too.. But Oprah is a Venus cazimi for example.

Also cazimi is much rarer whereas combust is very common... so in logic that makes sense

When supply is lower demand and/or value usually increase --- though demand in itself can remain potentially anywhere but value always increases if supply is lower... Demand and Value make the final value. [ Also considering supply [ high supply will lower that high demand and high value ] ]

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  #27  
Unread 07-01-2013, 08:47 PM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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My (albeit limited) understanding of cazimi planets is that it is one way of saving the planet from combustion. Combust planets, whether applying or separating, are unfortunate and so will be severly impaired when performing their duties as house rulers. This is not to say that planets close to the Sun cannot function in modern astrology, and I can also add that the closer Mercury is to the Sun the smarter I've found those natives to be. Within a degree? Genius. But if Mercury combust and not cazimi rules the houses of education...no advanced degree, and your genius could be a fry cook at your favorite seafood restaurant.

According to Hellenistic doctrine the other way a planet was "saved" was if it was in it's own "chariot" meaning in one of the signs it rules by domicile or exatation. Burning is bad, but being in the heart of the Sun was/is the same as being in the lap of the king. If you have a planet that really is within 17' of the Sun...figure out the rest of the story. What housese does that planet rule, what houses does the Sun rule, and everything else. Cazimi is good for the planet, not necessiarily good for the native or the people the native interacts with. An example? My father has Mars (the lesser malefic) cazimi in Pisces in his chart. I don't have a birth time so I can't tell for sure how this affected him re the houses...but I can tell you he ruined many, many lives in his. And that he is completely unconcerned that he did.

waybread points out that cazimi is a traditional idea, and she's right. Because psychological astrology is concerned with how the native perceives things, how the native's mind works, and under what circumstances the native can work with those energies to better themselves. This, at it's core, is not at odds with traditional methods.



This requires an understanding of what happens when planets are setting into the beams, becoming combust, being totally engulfed, and then emerging on the other side. The symbolism is quite beautiful.

The best analogy I can come up with for it (as a mom of three) is just this. A planet sets into the beams (15 or 17 degreess depending on which sources you follow, up to 8 degrees), and there is fear. You know it's going to hurt, and you know there isn't a dang thing you can do about it because no matter what, it has to happen. You can try to run, you can try to hide, but sill, the pain will catch up to you. Planets under the beams perform according to this fear.

Cumbust in an applying aspect (8 or so degrees until you are in the heart--cazimi--), and you are already engulfed with the pain. There is no escaping it because it simply has to be born whether you like it or not, and being in the midst of misery will color everything you do. This is the part where mom starts swearing at dad, the Universe, and her entire condition.

Once you get to the heart (or in my example, the head delivering) there is ecstasy. Literally. The worst is over, and the euphoria is just amazing. It's a moment of complete and pure joy and exaltation.

Combust in a separating aspect is different, because you survived the worst and even though it still hurts, you had your moment and you know that you are escaping the pain. Under the beams in the same separating aspect and yes, you are weakened but again, you know that it is getting better, you are regaining strength and that you are tougher for the experience. You also have hope, not just because you actually survived, but you have something to look forward to (in my analogy, a new baby to love)

Well I am definitely a Genius.. Albeit intensely bored one so this leads me to do things not in the way of a more "normal" person.. {Also in the sign of Aquarius so LOL }

Sun Cazimi mercury 0.00 Aquarius [14.39]
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  #28  
Unread 07-01-2013, 09:22 PM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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Perhaps it's a matter for another thread, and perhaps I don't really understand what you mean. How do you propose astrology works without astrophysical mechanisms?

Or what mechanisms can there be that stick the symbolic to the manifest without being physical, or mechanical. Or what's another word for a non mechanical mechanism? lol

I seem to need a new order of language to even begin a simple discussion about anything here today.
It can't work through a biophysical mechanism for horary astrology, anyway.

Also the electro-magnetic, gravitational, what-have-you pull of the planets on earth is so neglible as to be meaningless. Sure we know about the moon & tides, but that doesn't explain why a moon in Sagittarius differs from a moon in Scorpio.
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  #29  
Unread 07-02-2013, 01:57 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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You're right.. until there is a new model for experimenting on astrological thesis, there are just.. well a million and more thesis. But in this age of computerization I bet it isn't far till we can test some theories. But it is interesting to think about it none the less.
Yes, very interesting. I like to be exposed to as many theories as there are, then I can decide which are useful avenues to explore.
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  #30  
Unread 07-02-2013, 01:59 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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It can't work through a biophysical mechanism for horary astrology, anyway.
Why do you think so? It's not obvious to me.
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  #31  
Unread 07-02-2013, 02:13 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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Originally Posted by InvokerFromYA View Post
Well much is not completely "logical" in humans limited minds..
Either the concept works, doesn't, or does partially, in the nuanced model that I proposed, or in some other way hitherto unexplored.

When I say logical, I'm talking about the logic of astrology, not the logic of my or your mental processes

To most people astrology seems like a mad enough (i.e. illogical) idea as it is.
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  #32  
Unread 07-02-2013, 02:16 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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Well I am definitely a Genius.. Albeit intensely bored one so this leads me to do things not in the way of a more "normal" person.. {Also in the sign of Aquarius so LOL }

Sun Cazimi mercury 0.00 Aquarius [14.39]
And which planet Cazimi would make a person modest?

So you've got a personal connection with the idea there.

Unfortunately, it does seem that people can be biased about astrology simply because one idea flatters them more than an alternative.

Not saying you are, but just a caution to beware of that.
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  #33  
Unread 07-02-2013, 02:22 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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Well much is not completely "logical" in humans limited minds.. And yeah I kinda see that too.. But Oprah is a Venus cazimi for example.
That doesn't really mean a lot in itself. Perhaps Venus is completely defunct, and other factors in her chart are responsible for (I assume you refer to) her fame, success, money etc.

She has the Sun exalted in her 10th harmonic for example. Could that have a bearing?

It would be interesting to see if there were a higher incidence of Cazimi instances in the charts of celebs and whatnot, than in the charts of 'ordinary' people.
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  #34  
Unread 07-02-2013, 04:22 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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So you reject a model whereby planets influence the Earth physically, through some force such as, say, electromagnitism, and subscribe to a 'synchronistic' model, where the planets are merely signposting other, physically unconnected forces and processes occuring?
Basically yes, ALTHOUGH I ALSO accept that there IS some degree of PHYSICAL influence (via the EM spectrum) of Moon, planets, Sun, stars, upon receptive energy fields (of all types) here on Earth as well-I believe that PRIMARILY it is a symbolical/synchronistic influence, but NOT ENTIRELY or EXCLUSIVELY so.
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  #35  
Unread 07-03-2013, 06:05 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

I'm far from an expert on astrology, but basically everything I've ever read about cazimi agree that it is the highest exaltation a planet can have. I presume that cazimi Mercury would confer genius in some way. Out of curiosity, how well do you relate to other people?


On the topic of combustion:

How has anyone else witnessed combust planets in a person's chart?
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  #36  
Unread 01-02-2017, 05:44 AM
Cazimi6 Cazimi6 is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

My daughter has a debilitated sun at 10'44 libra and mercury at 10'50 libra. Per Vedic astrology sun is at its deepest debilitation point at 10'00 libra. Virgo ascendant so mercury is the lagnesh cazimi 12'th lord sun. Any takes on this one?
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  #37  
Unread 02-27-2017, 12:29 PM
Cazimi6 Cazimi6 is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

Hoping some enlightened soul can shed some light on mercury cazimi within 6 minutes of the sun, thanks!
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  #38  
Unread 02-28-2017, 03:11 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

Mercury cazimi is like having 2 exalted "Mercuries" influencing the chart: cazimi Mercury greatly amplifies the + influences of Mercury in any chart: as old Ibn Ezra said (12th century CE), a planet with the Sun (ie cazimi) is like a person sitting with the king on the king's throne. A cazimi Mercury can still have negative influences mixed in with its great dignity (due to cazimi), but it is unlikey that the + influence of the cazimi state will be nullified (possibly if the cazimi planet is parallel of declination with the South Node, or the Sun is conjunct the South Node, or in a pitted degree, the cazimi + influence MIGHT be diminished or, perhaps, nullified, but otherwise, a cazimi Mercury will be highly dignified in a chart)
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  #39  
Unread 02-28-2017, 03:57 AM
aldebaran aldebaran is offline
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

I have Ceres conjunct Sun by 0'20 in Taurus.

I curiously tend to find Ceres transits very remarkable in important dates of my life. This Cazimi concept might explain what I could not until now.

Ceres also make a square of 0'01 with my Moon, what makes it more strange a bit.
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  #40  
Unread 02-28-2017, 05:40 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

Does any one here use cosmodynes to pinpoint the strength of a planet in reference to the Sun's presence or strength? When usage of measures as the Cosmograms or Astrodynes reference, have found that a planet approaching the Sun if dignified and has a more powerful percentage value of power than the Sun will not be too affected or burned coming out on the other side of the purification process..and in actuality stands strengthened with power or dignity more so than the Sun can you believe it?

Lets say Venus is leaving the cazumi of the Sun..in the cosmograms if she is exalted in the sign or has dignity there and is of a harmodyne effectiveness more than of the Sun's power, (I have a program that will give these readings when you wish to extablish them from moment to moment or there about's, should you wish go to such lengths of tedious experimentations) She is purified and stands honored by the experience the next aspect she makes bears this theory out if close and leaving the Sun's rays. But should a planet be less in strength of dignity..etc..coming to or leaving the Sun. (it is in the order of Mars Sun Mercury Moon in fast retrospection, the Sun can't move to these planets to engulf them, but to the outer planets) (Say like Saturn, Jupiter when the planet leaves the Sun's rays from the Sun's Cazumi effect his application to the next planet he aspects you can expect a less than positive result of the energy flows he receives or gives will be less than fruitful, diminishing the validity of results he is known for.)

Case in point as a personal note I have Jupiter, Venus Combust the Sun and have known exalted intelligent suitors whom lifted my estate to a higher ground both culturally and romantically, bc the Sun blessed Jupiter and did not diminish Venus effectiveness even in Aries a possible crase expressiveness of Venus. These all are in the 9th house with my Mid heaven conjunct Algol in the Pleiades area of fixed constellations. One of the saving graces that helped me is Regulus on my Ascendant. Knowing these cultured gents is part of the Sun in Taurus with Venus and Jupiter there.

nuff said..

All the best

Vyri

Very interesting thread..PS my Jupiter is high on the rictor scale of harmodynes eh my venus and Sun..nada not so powerful...my Moon though..ah..yes my Moon in trine to the Sun saves him..when He/she decdes to 'let' her do so...he he

Last edited by Vyri; 02-28-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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  #41  
Unread 02-28-2017, 05:47 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

A woman I know quite well as a Gemini Mercury Rx Cazimi. I judge her mental powers as average to slightly above average with a proclivity to be very vehemently opposed to any other views than her own. She seems either unable or unwilling to see the reasoning of an argument that doesn't originate from herself and thus coming to win-win conclusions with her was almost impossible if there wasn't agreement at the outset. I loved her though so I looked passed that at the time.

It's only one case that I could judge up close,and it wasn't impressive.
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  #42  
Unread 02-28-2017, 06:05 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

That's strange you would think Mercury backwards of movement going to the Sun would be going back to the Sun to enrich him/herself again by the Sun's presence, rather than that I guess the retrograde motion diminished Mercury so much she wished to be masochistic engulfed again..tsk tsk conspiracy theory..to bad?

Vyri
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  #43  
Unread 02-28-2017, 04:29 PM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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That's strange you would think Mercury backwards of movement going to the Sun would be going back to the Sun to enrich him/herself again by the Sun's presence, rather than that I guess the retrograde motion diminished Mercury so much she wished to be masochistic engulfed again..tsk tsk conspiracy theory..to bad?

Vyri
That's a convenient explanation. My brother has an Aries Mercury Rx combust conjunct Mars/Saturn and he has no problem looking at problems from alternative angles than his own as well as having a really good strategic mind. He's not one to impose his views on people either, which you'd think is strange given his Arian stellium.
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  #44  
Unread 02-28-2017, 10:46 PM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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A woman I know quite well as a Gemini Mercury Rx Cazimi. I judge her mental powers as average to slightly above average with a proclivity to be very vehemently opposed to any other views than her own. She seems either unable or unwilling to see the reasoning of an argument that doesn't originate from herself and thus coming to win-win conclusions with her was almost impossible if there wasn't agreement at the outset. I loved her though so I looked passed that at the time.

It's only one case that I could judge up close,and it wasn't impressive.
In natal charts, I don't think combustion is a problem. Rather, the combust planet shows what the person identifies (sun) with. In Gemini Lady's case, a threat to Mercury could have been perceived as a threat to the self (sun.)

However, for this to be a negative, I'd expect to see a hard aspect or two to sun-Mercury.

Of course, cazimi is a special case.
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  #45  
Unread 02-28-2017, 11:46 PM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

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In natal charts, I don't think combustion is a problem. Rather, the combust planet shows what the person identifies (sun) with. In Gemini Lady's case, a threat to Mercury could have been perceived as a threat to the self (sun.)

However, for this to be a negative, I'd expect to see a hard aspect or two to sun-Mercury.

Of course, cazimi is a special case.
This seems more like it. I could definitely see her bristling as related to her feeling rejected in some sense, especially because she'd come back to me and say in a defeated and cutesy voice that I don't listen to her.

Her Sun/Mercury actually is stressed from a square by Saturn and an opposition from Jupiter. With her Leo Moon in the mix, this can make her quite dogmatic.

I've also not seen where combustion is a diminishing or ineffective influence on the charts/people that I know. I know 3 people with Sun/Venus conjunctions and they all are people-persons who are socially adroit and fluid. One in particular actually has her Virgo in fall but this doesn't stop her from being a popular girl. (She's also pursuing culinary arts)

Cazimi hasn't passed muster for me as yet
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  #46  
Unread 03-01-2017, 12:48 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

Cazimi in a natal chart is rare. A non-exact conjunction is common; and with the sun we can use a wide orb. I understand the traditional astronomical interpretation, that you can't see a planet within the sun's visual orb. But looking at all kinds of natal charts, the conjunction seems more like what people identify with, the sun indicating one's sense of identity or self.

Traditionally Mars was the one planet not weakened by being combust, as the hot, dry nature of Mars supposedly could compatibly withstand the sun's rays.

I would think that a woman with sun conjunct Venus would identify with her femininity, and would enjoy being attractive to other people. With Mars widely conjunct my sun, this didn't happen in my case, alas.

Of course, the conjunction can feel negative with a hard aspect from another planet, or if the conjuncting planet(oid) happens to be Saturn or Chiron. Both of these can give difficulties with self-esteem.
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Last edited by waybread; 03-01-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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  #47  
Unread 08-04-2020, 05:08 AM
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Re: What do you think of cazimi aspect?

The child of Elon Musk and Grimes has the Sun-Mercury cazimi aspect. He has Virgo Rising and Gemini Midheaven undoubtedly making Mercury his chart ruler. This conjunction is also widely conjunct Uranus.

I think it's safe to say that he'll grow up to be a genius or the ultimate businessman, since mercury is often associated with merchants and trade.

However, this cazimi is in Taurus, so I don't know how great it'll be. Taurus isn't exactly the "thinking" type.
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