Indications of fertility in the natal chart

waybread said:
A50, I think the point is that children are a 5th house matter.

Traditional astrology does number birth order according to the house. The 5th house is the first child; the 7th house is the 2nd child, the 9th house is the 3rd child, and so on. How this works is basically through a technique that a modern astrologer might called "derivative" or "derived" houses.

So because the 1st child is the 5th house, and since siblings are a third house matter, you come up with the 7th house representing the 2nd child because it is the third house from the 5th. In this technique, you always start with the initial house in question (the 5th) as #1. The next house would be the 6th, and the third house would then be the 7th. Then a third child would be the sibling (3rd house) of the 2nd child, and so on.

I'm not sure this works in practice, but that's the idea, anyway.

The thread header was' indications of fertility in the natal chart' obviously if you have children then the 5th describes the children also my view of labour,but to conceive in the first place, I still say conception is 8th house matter.....not 5th;)
 

waybread

Well-known member
Quite possibly, but then not all conceptions lead to children being born. In traditional astrology the moon rules conception, which is not surprising given its assocation with menstrual cycles and motherhood; secondarily, Venus and the 5th house. The 8th house does rule sexuality.
 

starlink

Well-known member
My 5th house is empty so both of my children were accidents.
Mal, this is not correct. Empty houses only show that you are focussing less on these life areas but it does not mean at all that you cannot plan a baby!
There are no such things as "accidental marriages" when people have an empty 7th house:)

Starlink
 

mal

New member
Thank you for explanation.In both marriages,I got pregnant when not intended.Especially in second marriage,I got pregnant and then got married.
My second husband has houses 6-10 empty.I find him indifferent to home and son.Interesting!!!He is a Leo and I am an Aquarius.Little did I know 23 years ago.If I don't accept or feed his ego,he becomes aggressive,secretive and mean.
As far as sex,excellent first year,slowly by slowly we grew apart.I am too old to divorce again at 54.Think he is 100 percent impotent.But he flirts a lot with his charming Leo personality.
I feel stuck as an Aquarius.
 

Kerrie

Well-known member
mal said:
Thank you for explanation.In both marriages,I got pregnant when not intended.Especially in second marriage,I got pregnant and then got married.
My second husband has houses 6-10 empty.I find him indifferent to home and son.Interesting!!!He is a Leo and I am an Aquarius.Little did I know 23 years ago.If I don't accept or feed his ego,he becomes aggressive,secretive and mean.
As far as sex,excellent first year,slowly by slowly we grew apart.I am too old to divorce again at 54.Think he is 100 percent impotent.But he flirts a lot with his charming Leo personality.
I feel stuck as an Aquarius.
Oh you sound sad, Im sorry, maybe you should put up a thread of your natal chart asking for help in getting unstuck :). I have learnt people are limited because they have their eyes closed, there are many possibilities.
 

mal

New member
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR UR CONCERN.i WILL TAKE UP ON UR SUGGESTION AND PUT UP MY CHART;MAYBE SOME KIND PERSON MAY GIVE ME HELP TO LEAVE HIM! THANK YOU SOOOOOOO MUCH
 

Claire19

Well-known member
I dont see the relevance of the 11th house as it is the house of stepchildren. adopted and fostered children.
We are talking about fertility. We need to look at the 5th house, its planets and ruler also aspects for fertility. Also the Moon. Both charts of the prospective parents need to be looked at and a composite chart done for timing of birth etc. However our natal chart shows our attitudes and influences towards children. Saturn in Leo in the 5th for instance can mean no children or just one. especially if the Moon is afflicted. THis is the case for me personally. Whether or not I would have fallen pregnant I dont know as I took very strong measures every time to ensure I wouldnt.

It is a very complex scenario and different for everyone. We need to take it case by case.
 
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smeshanka

New member
i have moon in Scorpio in 4th house and Mars in Gemini in 11th, neptune in Sagittarius in 5th.. it cant be worst a? What do you think? Do i have all indications of fertility or there are some more that i cant analyze yet?
 

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stardust7

Active member
Tamara said:
The Moon is the planet of fecundation and therefore the most important significator. The fifth house denotes first pregnancy. So the Moon in the fourth house is weak and is classical predisposition of infertility as the fourth house is twelvth from the 5th, or there may be children but under special circumstanses.

I have to disagree with this on personal experience. I have a 4th house moon in detriment (Scorpio) and I am by no means unfertile. I have two children and have had two accidental pregnancies, which both ended in miscarriage. Both times I intended to get pregnant only took two months of trying! It did however indicate troubled pregnancies both times. A Scorp Moon or even just a debilitated Moon can mean difficulty with pregnancy but certainly not an impossibility taken by itself. I am a "fertile Myrtle" even with a debilitated Moon sign. Also, I would consider Moon to be more fertile in the 4th house of home because the mythology or imagery of this placement is "Mother in the Home."

Tamara said:
When Mars, Saturn, Sun or Uranus are in the 5th or 11th houses, they either prevent the birth of children or destroy them during childhood.
You should be more sensitive about posting such a simple assumption like this!!! I have Saturn in the 11th conjunct the South Node and you have now made me fear losing one of my children!!! I really don't think the death of a child should be treated so lightly nor can it be pin-pointed to ONE placement of a planet in a house. Too simple. Astrology is never that easy.

I also wanted to add that the use of asteroid Ceres was important in the timing of my second pregnancy. It was conjunct my Venus when I got pregnant with my daughter, among other important aspects and planets. Ceres is the "nurturing" asteroid and associated with mothering.

Also, this is an aside, but the Moon's sign can be used during fertilization to determine the sex of the child. Was true of both of mine.

Sincerely,
Star
 
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StarNur

Well-known member
Would Pisces Moon opposing Saturn Rx in the 5th make one more fertile than without the Moon aspect?

Would Part of Fortune in Cancer in positive aspect to Moon and Saturn enhance fertility as well?

I've also read that NN in the 5th is not favourable (can't recall where at the moment)... Odd because I thought the opposite would be true...any insight into this? North Node in the 5th should represent a destiny involving children.

Ive never been pregnant...cant say i've tried however because I've never been married and won't until I have a husband. (Neptune 7th T-square with Saturn and Moon).
 

starlink

Well-known member
So the Moon in the fourth house is weak and is classical predisposition of infertility as the fourth house is twelvth from the 5th,
Ai ai ai, the 4th house can be seen in connection with the 4th sign Cancer and Moon rules Cancer, so that's why modernly Moons best house would be the 4th, the home and traditions, all Moon related. Traditionalists put Moons best house in the 3rd (its Joy).
Now, to say that some house would be a "classical predisposition for infertility" is i.m.o. a bit far fetched. By that calculation, Venus in the 1st house would also be a classical predisposition for poverty, as it is the 12th of the 2nd. The 1st house is an angular house and I dont think that taking it as the 12th of the 2nd would weaken that house when it comes to income and selfworth.
Too simple. Astrology is never that easy.
is what Stardust wrote and I agree with this.

Quote by Stardust:A Scorp Moon or even just a debilitated Moon can mean difficulty with pregnancy but certainly not an impossibility taken by itself.
Also true. I would have been pronounced childless when an astrologer would have interpreted my chart according to what has been said above (Mars in 5, which I have in Aries) and on top of that Moon in Scorpio in the 12th house!!
I got pregnant before I knew it, first try both times immediate "hit" and was pronounced a rabbit by my husband after that. No problems during pregnancies except from excessive vomiting, up till the 7th month with 1st child, up till 5th month with the 2nd. No problems at birth either. 1st took 15 hours of waiting (my water broke early) rather than being in pain (only last half hour) . I think she just did not want to enter into this difficult world . My son was the opposite, he just jumped into this life like a rocket!!:).

the Moon's sign can be used during fertilization to determine the sex of the child. Was true of both of mine.
Oh, wow, that is a new one for me. Cant be very easy though to establish when exactly fertilization took place in the womb. Or should we take the moment of intercourse for this?
 
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archergirl

Well-known member
I think we have to be careful about making too many assumptions regarding fertility simply by looking at a chart. Charts cannot show environmental influences on fertility (living in polluted area; poor diet; obesity; smoking; stress/anxiety, etc, all of which have an effect on fertility).

Were the chart to be the only indicator of fertility, I would by rights be childless or have difficulty conceiving (Gemini on 5th cusp; Lord 5 Mercury peregrine in Capricorn in 12th house; Moon in Aries. The only 'fertile' indicator I have is Jupiter in Scorpio, but that's in the 9th so it's not like my life focus is on having children!). But I've been pregnant four times, and have two fine, healthy children. Easy pregnancies; difficult first childbirth but the second one was a breeze. Neither child was planned; they just came along when they decided to come along.

What I'm saying is that people get a bit hung up on whether or not they have a fertile chart; and a bit hung up about having children, focusing all their energy on this when maybe *relaxing* that energy might be of better use. ;)

AG:)
 
Archergirl, it is such a relief to see your post..I have been freaking out the whole day over Tamara's statements..I have a moon in my fourth house which according to her, indicates a predisposition to infertility and my fifth house is empty..As a wife who has been trying to get pregnant for the past 3 months, and who really wants a baby, I tend to get nervous easily and tamara's post did not help the situation..For any of you who can read charts well, can you please tell me what my and my husband's charts say regarding our ability to have children and maybe, when I will have children..honest opinions are welcome, and I will try not to freak myself out :pinched:
 

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fushiafairy

Well-known member
sangetee22,
i would relax. Being stressed out won't help. Your chart shows aries on the 5th cusp. The ruler, mars, is in cancer conjunct the sun. Mars is positive aspect, trine, to the moon. Mars forms a trine to saturn also.
The second chart has cancer on the 5th house cusp. The ruler , the moon, has several positive aspects. It is trine mercury which is in the 5th house.

I have negative and positive things in my chart concerning children, but I have 3 beautiful kids who I conceived easily. According to some things said, I would have a hard time conceiving or something bad may happen. But I didn't. I even have twins I conceived on the first attempt. I have Capicorn on the 5th cusp. My 5th house ruler, saturn is in the 11th house conjunct my sun. They are in cancer. MY saturn is square jupiter and square uranus. I also have moon in leo in the 12th.. I have no planets in the 5th.
good luck
 
sangetee22,
i would relax. Being stressed out won't help. Your chart shows aries on the 5th cusp. The ruler, mars, is in cancer conjunct the sun. Mars is positive aspect, trine, to the moon. Mars forms a trine to saturn also.
The second chart has cancer on the 5th house cusp. The ruler , the moon, has several positive aspects. It is trine mercury which is in the 5th house.

I have negative and positive things in my chart concerning children, but I have 3 beautiful kids who I conceived easily. According to some things said, I would have a hard time conceiving or something bad may happen. But I didn't. I even have twins I conceived on the first attempt. I have Capicorn on the 5th cusp. My 5th house ruler, saturn is in the 11th house conjunct my sun. They are in cancer. MY saturn is square jupiter and square uranus. I also have moon in leo in the 12th.. I have no planets in the 5th.
good luck

Thank you :)..thats such a relief..
 

segurelha

Well-known member
I truly think where the Moon is, will say a lot about the attitude towards deciding whether having a baby or not. Because having a baby is nowadays MOSTLY a CONSCIOUS choice.

Even if its an accident its because you knew it could have happened.

I'm too planning and a worrier with this having kids. And guess what, my Moon is in Virgo
 

mizz

Well-known member
this topic really reminded me of my mother who had no kids for 8 years after her marriage. she had first baby after 8 years and the child died during delivery. then after that she had three kids each one year apart, and yet one after 4 years of the third kid. but she has had issues with her system because she was operated like three times, something wrong with her uterus...

she has an empty 5th house in pisces. chiron is there. opposed by uranus in 11th
her 8th house gemini has jupiter in it
she has moon in cancer in 9th house.
11th house has pluto and uranus

if 7th house is the second child, thats my brother. he is a taurus. mom has taurus cusp 7th house
 

Blackempress

Well-known member
Tamara,

I suspect you have been reading very old astrology books/Traditional astrology rather than modern works,cos Sex and conception are attributed to the 8th house and not 5th....

There are all types of Astrologers use this forum but mainly fall into Traditional & Western Astrology, the differences are explained here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

Perhaps a bit more study and research is needed to evaluate your beliefs

Thats a relief! :biggrin:

I've got my 5th & 11th empty AND 5th house in Leo PLUS saturn in 7th so Tamara's been worrying me to death! ;)
 

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Claire19

Well-known member
I just tried to summarize what i know theoretically and some of these rules worked good in interpreting several charts. I posted it 'cause i'd like to wide my knowledge and see others opinions...
Of course you are entitlted to contribute and we thank you for your time.

However the 11th house does not denote natural children but those that are adopted, fostered or otherwise supported. IVF treatments can be indicated here if a connection with the 4th and 5th houses.. I would always look at the fourth of family as well as the 5th of procreation.

THe condition of the Moon is very important in both parent's charts.
One may be fertile and the other may not be and a composite chart would have to be observed and the transits and progressions to the natal 4th and 5th houses as well as to the composite.

Sometimes it is clear what sex and how many children are to be born with some charts but not all.

Uranus through the 5th for instance can mean a miscarriage or accident preventing full term birth....sometimes it is shock pregnancy seemingly out of the blue and in out of wedlock circumstances.

Neptune through the 5th can also mean a loss or a deception perhaps about the parentage.

Jupiter through there as well as Venus is a good indication of pregnancy but again the natal promise has to be taken into account always.

There are many scenarios and not one particular format can be used.

Conception on a yin Moon promises a female and conversely a Yang moon a son.......Dual signs can bring twins or two very close together particularly Gemini.

Always we must take the individual charts on their merits and a generalised statement is not often very accurate.
 
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