Indications of fertility in the natal chart

Tamara

Well-known member
In this forum there were several questions about pregnancies. So i just decided to post this thread where i'll try to give some general rules how to judge this question in the natal chart.
Whether a person will have children or not cannot be judged from his or her individual horoscope with any degree of accuracy for this matter is not dependent on one only, therefore the horoscope of the prospective parents should be compared and the individuals indications blended, then if both horoscopes show a fruitful nature many children will be born, but if both are only moderately fertile, or if one is very fruitful and the other barren, the forecast must be made accordingly.
The indications shown in the individual horoscope may be interpreted as follows:
The Moon is the planet of fecundation and therefore the most important significator. The fifth house denotes first pregnancy. So the Moon in the fourth house is weak and is classical predisposition of infertility as the fourth house is twelvth from the 5th, or there may be children but under special circumstanses. Also important planets are Venus and Jupiter. If either of these planets is in the 5th house, and in one of the fruitful or double-bodied signs, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, Gemini, or Sagittarius, it is an indication that the person has a fruitful nature and will have a number of children who will be of good and pleasant disposition. A similar judgement may be formed if the 11th house is thus invested. For if we turn the horoscope upside down so that the 7th house becomes the first, then it will show the marriage partner's figure, and the 11th house is his/her 5th house, therefore both the 5th and 11th houses should be concidered in this matter.
When Mars, Saturn, Sun or Uranus are in the 5th or 11th houses, they either prevent the birth of children or destroy them during childhood. This is particularly true if Aries, Leo or Capricorn are on the cusps of either of these houses.
When the Moon is in Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, Gemini, or Sagittarius, in good aspect to Jupiter or Venus, a large family is indicated. But when the Moon is in Aries, Leo, or Capricorn, and afflicted by one of the malefics or by the Sun, the marriage is usually barren. Saturn and Venus in the 7th house is also a sign of marriage without issue.
If there is a difference in the testimonies of the 5th and 11th houses the judgement must be modified.
Could anybody here add something?
 

Sanaqua

Well-known member
Interesting topic.. for me atleast :p

I've Taurus rising sign so, Venus is my chart ruler.. a planet of ertility huh?

Leo is on my 5th house cusp n also has virgo...

Scorpio my 7th house ruler with both Pluto n mars in Scorpio.. (water sign is a good indication?? :D )

Sun is in my 10th house in Aquarius conjunct Venus (my chart ruler) in Aqua in same 10th house...:confused:

n Jupiter is sitting at the cusp of my 11th house in Aqua.. (my 11th cusp is in Aqua n only 3 or 4 deg of Aqua in it ).

So??
 

Sanaqua

Well-known member
Tamara said:
When Mars, Saturn, Sun or Uranus are in the 5th or 11th houses, they either prevent the birth of children or destroy them during childhood. This is particularly true if Aries, Leo or Capricorn are on the cusps of either of these houses.

and it means???:confused:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Tamara said:
In this forum there were several questions about pregnancies. So i just decided to post this thread where i'll try to give some general rules how to judge this question in the natal chart.
Whether a person will have children or not cannot be judged from his or her individual horoscope with any degree of accuracy for this matter is not dependent on one only, therefore the horoscope of the prospective parents should be compared and the individuals indications blended, then if both horoscopes show a fruitful nature many children will be born, but if both are only moderately fertile, or if one is very fruitful and the other barren, the forecast must be made accordingly.
The indications shown in the individual horoscope may be interpreted as follows:
The Moon is the planet of fecundation and therefore the most important significator. The fifth house denotes first pregnancy. So the Moon in the fourth house is weak and is classical predisposition of infertility as the fourth house is twelvth from the 5th, or there may be children but under special circumstanses. Also important planets are Venus and Jupiter. If either of these planets is in the 5th house, and in one of the fruitful or double-bodied signs, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, Gemini, or Sagittarius, it is an indication that the person has a fruitful nature and will have a number of children who will be of good and pleasant disposition. A similar judgement may be formed if the 11th house is thus invested. For if we turn the horoscope upside down so that the 7th house becomes the first, then it will show the marriage partner's figure, and the 11th house is his/her 5th house, therefore both the 5th and 11th houses should be concidered in this matter.
When Mars, Saturn, Sun or Uranus are in the 5th or 11th houses, they either prevent the birth of children or destroy them during childhood. This is particularly true if Aries, Leo or Capricorn are on the cusps of either of these houses.
When the Moon is in Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, Gemini, or Sagittarius, in good aspect to Jupiter or Venus, a large family is indicated. But when the Moon is in Aries, Leo, or Capricorn, and afflicted by one of the malefics or by the Sun, the marriage is usually barren. Saturn and Venus in the 7th house is also a sign of marriage without issue.
If there is a difference in the testimonies of the 5th and 11th houses the judgement must be modified.
Could anybody here add something?

Yes. If you wrote this yourself, it is indeed remarkable. If you copied it from another source, please cite it to avoid plagiarism.

I have Capricorn on the cusp of my 5th house, and both the sun and Mars in the 5th. I have two children who are now healthy adults. So I am a little sceptical about some of the above.
 
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Tamara

Well-known member
I just tried to summarize what i know theoretically and some of these rules worked good in interpreting several charts. I posted it 'cause i'd like to wide my knowledge and see others opinions...
 

FleetingDasein

Well-known member
waybread said:
Yes. If you wrote this yourself, it is indeed remarkable. If you copied it from another source, please cite it to avoid plagiarism.

I agree. I'd take some things there with a grain of salt. Such as the part about the malefics.

I think 5th house cusp is where you have to look at, Water sings being the most fertile, and Air signs being the least.

Once again you have to take two charts, that of the mom and the father. Natal chart shows tendencies but doesn't mean this will carry on through, you know?

Pregnancies can be shown in Solar and Lunar Returns. If I was trying to get pregnant, I'd look at those. I have heard Lunar Returns are very exact in predicting pregnancy.

I have Cancer in the 5th, Moon in the 5th and Venus in the 7th. I really only want one kid. :)
 
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RayAustin

Well-known member
Funny how this thread comes up right after I answered this question in the horary forum.

Tamara, I think your use of examining the eleventh house is wayward, especially if the native is a woman. Just because your partner is fertile, doesn't mean you are. Just because your partner has potential for a large family, doesn't mean they will be your children.

Keeping the chart solely without turning would be the most direct way to analyze indications of fertility.

Ray:)
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Originally Posted by Tamara
When Mars, Saturn, Sun or Uranus are in the 5th or 11th houses, they either prevent the birth of children or destroy them during childhood. This is particularly true if Aries, Leo or Capricorn are on the cusps of either of these houses.
Absolute rubbish, sorry! I have Mars in the 5th and my 5th is ruled by Aries, could not be "worse" if I can believe this!. Nothing happened to them in childhood, they are both midlife now. You must have gotten this from some book and I also would take it with a BIG grain of salt.
Imagine, the Sun in the 5th, it's own house.

Tamara, if children get "destroyed", the reason lies also elsewhere in the chart and if you are in doubt than look into the chart of the children themselves to see if it is also reflected there. Dont forget that the 5th house shows the persons self expression as well. Everything depends on the ruler of the 5th house, it's placement, its aspects, aspects to the rulers of the 5th and so on.
So please, never ever believe cookbook statements like this.
 
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RayAustin

Well-known member
starlink said:
Absolute rubbish, sorry! I have Mars in the 5th and my 5th is ruled by Aries, could not be "worse" if I can believe this!. Nothing happened to them in childhood, they are both midlife now. You must have gotten this from some book and I also would take it with a BIG grain of salt.
Imagine, the Sun in the 5th, it's own house.

Yes, what she said doesn't consider whether Mars is nice or not. Star with your Mars in Aries that's a good indication (which I'm sure you know! :)) that Mars wouldn't be destructive.

So please, never ever believe cookbook statements like this.
I was about to go there, but you went there first! :p

Ray:)
 

triplecancer

Well-known member
My mom has sun and saturn in leo in 5th house and she had two kids who are now adults and healthy. In between them she had a miscarriage.
My brother has mars in aries in 5th house and he has two kids (12 and 8 years old) and both are ok.
Plus, I've read that gemini is a barren sign, not fertile.
 

Sanaqua

Well-known member
In my view, Mars in Aries in 5th isn't bad because, Mars is in it's own rulership n a planet in rulership isn't bad, as far as i know.. :)
 

starlink

Well-known member
In my view, Mars in Aries in 5th isn't bad because, Mars is in it's own rulership
Yes, that is partly true. It makes Mars stronger when he is in own sign, but not necessarily better. Again, it depends on the aspects Mars makes. If they are good, then being in own sign shows REALLY good, but when they are not positive, the effect can be REALLY negative!! There are always two sides to a coin:)
 

Sanaqua

Well-known member
:)

I believe aspects aren't good or bad themselves, it's decided by the planets n their positions in the houses n signs.
 

starlink

Well-known member
I believe aspects aren't good or bad themselves
You are right. We should not use the terms good and bad, but instead energy that flows and energies that are opposing one another or blocking one another, creating friction, anger, tention, nervousness etc. which then could result in a negative outcome. If planets are strong by sign and house, then "difficult" energy can be very creative and also show a lot of drive.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Tamara, can you please cite your source? Or just let me know if you wrote it yourself.

I am also a bit suspicious of its utility today because this text appears to have been written before the Pill, fertility treatments, the delayed average age of childbearing for women in developed nations, better pre-natal and neo-natal care.....you name it.

Also, in developed countries today, the national birth rate is generally at or even below two children per couple. So the whole concept of "large" or "small" families doesn't mean what it meant even 50 years ago.
 
Tamara,

I suspect you have been reading very old astrology books/Traditional astrology rather than modern works,cos Sex and conception are attributed to the 8th house and not 5th....

There are all types of Astrologers use this forum but mainly fall into Traditional & Western Astrology, the differences are explained here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

Perhaps a bit more study and research is needed to evaluate your beliefs
 

star2858

Well-known member
Sanaqua said:
Interesting topic.. for me atleast :p

I've Taurus rising sign so, Venus is my chart ruler.. a planet of ertility huh?

Leo is on my 5th house cusp n also has virgo...

Scorpio my 7th house ruler with both Pluto n mars in Scorpio.. (water sign is a good indication?? :D )

Sun is in my 10th house in Aquarius conjunct Venus (my chart ruler) in Aqua in same 10th house...:confused:

n Jupiter is sitting at the cusp of my 11th house in Aqua.. (my 11th cusp is in Aqua n only 3 or 4 deg of Aqua in it ).

So??

I think one must be sceptical. Like you said, i also taurus ascendant, leo on 5th and scorpio on 7th. Sun, mars and venus are all in the 5th and all in virgo (which i hear is a barren). They all conjunct each other too.

I also got the moon and jupiter in aries in the 12th!!!

Although i don't have kids yet, there is nothing wrong with me. I do think, however, my fertility might be a little 'less' than some other people, because i menstruate less frequently by a week or so than my some of my pisces-full friends. But that will probably not have a bearing on whether i will have children or not, it just means trying more.
 

waybread

Well-known member
A50, I think the point is that children are a 5th house matter.

Traditional astrology does number birth order according to the house. The 5th house is the first child; the 7th house is the 2nd child, the 9th house is the 3rd child, and so on. How this works is basically through a technique that a modern astrologer might called "derivative" or "derived" houses.

So because the 1st child is the 5th house, and since siblings are a third house matter, you come up with the 7th house representing the 2nd child because it is the third house from the 5th. In this technique, you always start with the initial house in question (the 5th) as #1. The next house would be the 6th, and the third house would then be the 7th. Then a third child would be the sibling (3rd house) of the 2nd child, and so on.

I'm not sure this works in practice, but that's the idea, anyway.
 
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