Unsure who rules my fifth house

LisaAngela

Well-known member
I was wondering if anybody knows how to read a natal chart in terms of fertility. I am not sure what the ruler of my fifth house is? Is it worrying that it is very bare? I want children very soon this would be lovely and I would love to have a rough idea and to know if I will be "delayed". I am Virgo and my partner is Gemini and I have read these are considered barren signs. This upsets me

This is my natal chart

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cg...gif&res=100&va=&cid=7m5fileyL5tQw-u1366483878

and my partners

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...4;syr=2013;hsy=-1;zod=;orbp=;rs=0;ast=&nhor=2
 

Rosie7

Well-known member
Virgo: barren? That's news to me and the millions of other mercury ruled parents out there. Mars rules your 5th house and having no planets in that house makes no difference whatsoever. I have friends with a loaded 5th house, with no affliction to the ruler or disposited planets, and happily have no children. Practical advice: don't smoke or drink alcohol, eat a nutritious diet, exercise frequently, drink water, and have good sex often. Seeing a fertility coach is also helpful.
 

LisaAngela

Well-known member
Hi, I have read alot of "astrologers agree" on the net in order of fertile signs with pisces, cancer and scorpio being the most high, to leo virgo gemini aries being "barren signs". Sounds ridiculous doesn't it
 

kimbermoon

Well-known member
Note the positive aspects of Mars, offering support and encouragement, rather than detriment. See also that the Sun sextiles Jupiter in the 8th [birth]. The Moon also favors Venus in your chart, so I should think these would be beneficial in the matter. What counters these though, is the oppositional stance of Jupiter to Saturn/Neptune which could denote complications. A study of your progressions and current transit cycles would provide additional insight as to your readiness for such an event. Jupiter/Saturn natally opposed could bring in delays though, which could be necessary for some higher reason. You are still young enough so there is time yet. Best of luck to you and your partner.
 

Edward

Well-known member
Virgo: barren? That's news to me and the millions of other mercury ruled parents out there.

In practically all classic texts on western astrology I've come across it is stated that Gemini, Leo and Virgo are barren signs. Read for example William Lilly, Guido Bonatti and Al-Biruni.

Rosie7 said:
Practical advice: don't smoke or drink alcohol, eat a nutritious diet, exercise frequently, drink water, and have good sex often.

Preparation is always useful. I agree with you on all points except on the last one. What do you understand by "good sex" resp. "bad sex"? Sex doesn't have to take place often for conception, in fact less is quite often better. Especially if you make an astrological election for the time of the act.

P.S. Masturbation weakens male fertility, likewise sex with contraceptives weakens the female fertility.

I was wondering if anybody knows how to read a natal chart in terms of fertility. I am not sure what the ruler of my fifth house is? Is it worrying that it is very bare? I want children very soon this would be lovely and I would love to have a rough idea and to know if I will be "delayed". I am Virgo and my partner is Gemini and I have read these are considered barren signs. This upsets me

The ruler of your natal 5th house is, as was already stated by others above, Mars in Virgo. Virgo is by nature a barren sign, and Mars a barren planet.
Yet, there is hope of fertility in your own birth chart, as ASC is in Scorpio (a fruitful watery sign), furthermore fruitful planet Venus is placed on Mars by contra-antiscion, she being in domicile on the cusp of the 11th. Plus, you're still quite young at age 23. So, no need to despair.

Your partner's chart looks a bit worse in regards of fertility, though it's a man's (which is less important than the woman's in questions of fertility and pregnancy). His ruler of the 5th is Mars, just like in the woman's chart. Mars as a barren planet is placed in the barren sign of Leo, and tightly conjunct a barren Saturn in detriment. Furthermore, there are no tight aspects to fruitful planets.
However, there is hope of at least 1 child in the man's chart, since he also has ASC in Scorpio, furthermore the ruler of the 11th (5th derived from 7th, hence the fertility of the partner) is fruitful planet Venus in the fruitful sign of Cancer, conjunct with fruitful planet Moon by antiscion.

Apart from your charts not being the most prosperous in terms of fertility, I can assure you that you make a good couple from astrological point of view: The synastry shows the ASC degrees tightly conjunct (24° resp. 23° Scorpio), the man's Moon/Sun conjunction in sextile to woman's Moon in Leo and in trine to woman's Venus in Libra, furthermore your ASC ruler Mars in sextile to his Venus - Mars/Venus connections being good for the sexual side of the partnership, though this does not necessarily mean for fertility also.

Especially in the case of you both I would advise to do an astrological election, depicting the best time for conception, since your birth charts are so similar to each other: Mars rules both ASC and 5th house, so the astrologer might try to fortify this planet to see if it helps. This is by no means a guarantee for conception, but the election can make successful conception far more likely. Which gender would you like your baby to have?
 

Edward

Well-known member
I f you were an astrologer, I could recommend a great book on this.

Please, please deign to tell me the name of this book, dear great master of astrology. :innocent:

Zarathu said:
My wife more than 33 years ago developed a problem with the use of birth control pills which were suppressing her menstrual periods. So she had to go off of them. At the same time she wanted to be pregnant which was being depressed too.

Sadly, sex with contraceptives weakens female fertility on the long run, as I already mentioned above.

Zarathu said:
So we found a professional astrologer who specialized in birth control and pregnancy. She gave us the times of the month, and hours of the month when we could have unprotected sex without any danger of pregnancy. Later when we wanted a child, she told us when we could have a child by having sex, and even let us choose the sex of the child by fitting in the right time.

Which astrological method did this anonymous professional astrologer actually use? Some kind of lunar calendar based on the Moon (which holds a connection with female sexuality and menstruation)? Would be interesting to know.

Zarathu said:
I went home for lunch on the assigned day. Unfortunately I told a fellow worker, who followed me with all my friends from work and they yelled "baby making cheers" that they made up while we were in the house.

Bitter, but quite understandable since astrology's reputation has suffered severly in the 20th century. However, you don't have to tell everyone of your plans if you're embarassed of it.

Zarathu said:
We conceived the child and it was a boy, just as we requested.

Congratulations. Seems to have been successful.

Zarathu said:
She made it clear that they concept of barren signs was only because those writers didn't have the big picture. There are no barren signs, just barren times.

Yes of course, since she knows better than all "those writers" (can she name one of them?) which have lived before her... :rightful:

As you have told us, this self-acclaimed astrologer describes herself as a specialist in birth control and pregnancy - so of course she must tell her clients that everything is possible and that there are no barren signs, no barren women, no barren men.

There's only one problem: It is very unlikely that a naturally barren or 60-year old woman will get pregnant, no matter what kind of astrologically timed election or lunar calendar is used.
 

LisaAngela

Well-known member
Virgo: barren? That's news to me and the millions of other mercury ruled parents out there. Mars rules your 5th house and having no planets in that house makes no difference whatsoever. I have friends with a loaded 5th house, with no affliction to the ruler or disposited planets, and happily have no children. Practical advice: don't smoke or drink alcohol, eat a nutritious diet, exercise frequently, drink water, and have good sex often. Seeing a fertility coach is also helpful.

Hey Rosie I agree I would have thought that it would be fertile as the sign I have read is ruled by a female?

Note the positive aspects of Mars, offering support and encouragement, rather than detriment. See also that the Sun sextiles Jupiter in the 8th [birth]. The Moon also favors Venus in your chart, so I should think these would be beneficial in the matter. What counters these though, is the oppositional stance of Jupiter to Saturn/Neptune which could denote complications. A study of your progressions and current transit cycles would provide additional insight as to your readiness for such an event. Jupiter/Saturn natally opposed could bring in delays though, which could be necessary for some higher reason. You are still young enough so there is time yet. Best of luck to you and your partner.

Makes sense about the delay for a "higher reason" although seems unfair as I'm pretty well prepared compared to alot of others! But thats just the way of the world. And I would love to see progressions and current transits and have read of an astrologer who does just this (I assume?) and she helps couples find the time to try but she charges £150. But as she is so good I may just be tempted to give her a try. Thanks for your response and time answering.

In practically all classic texts on western astrology I've come across it is stated that Gemini, Leo and Virgo are barren signs. Read for example William Lilly, Guido Bonatti and Al-Biruni.



Preparation is always useful. I agree with you on all points except on the last one. What do you understand by "good sex" resp. "bad sex"? Sex doesn't have to take place often for conception, in fact less is quite often better. Especially if you make an astrological election for the time of the act.

P.S. Masturbation weakens male fertility, likewise sex with contraceptives weakens the female fertility.



The ruler of your natal 5th house is, as was already stated by others above, Mars in Virgo. Virgo is by nature a barren sign, and Mars a barren planet.
Yet, there is hope of fertility in your own birth chart, as ASC is in Scorpio (a fruitful watery sign), furthermore fruitful planet Venus is placed on Mars by contra-antiscion, she being in domicile on the cusp of the 11th. Plus, you're still quite young at age 23. So, no need to despair.

Your partner's chart looks a bit worse in regards of fertility, though it's a man's (which is less important than the woman's in questions of fertility and pregnancy). His ruler of the 5th is Mars, just like in the woman's chart. Mars as a barren planet is placed in the barren sign of Leo, and tightly conjunct a barren Saturn in detriment. Furthermore, there are no tight aspects to fruitful planets.
However, there is hope of at least 1 child in the man's chart, since he also has ASC in Scorpio, furthermore the ruler of the 11th (5th derived from 7th, hence the fertility of the partner) is fruitful planet Venus in the fruitful sign of Cancer, conjunct with fruitful planet Moon by antiscion.

Apart from your charts not being the most prosperous in terms of fertility, I can assure you that you make a good couple from astrological point of view: The synastry shows the ASC degrees tightly conjunct (24° resp. 23° Scorpio), the man's Moon/Sun conjunction in sextile to woman's Moon in Leo and in trine to woman's Venus in Libra, furthermore your ASC ruler Mars in sextile to his Venus - Mars/Venus connections being good for the sexual side of the partnership, though this does not necessarily mean for fertility also.

Especially in the case of you both I would advise to do an astrological election, depicting the best time for conception, since your birth charts are so similar to each other: Mars rules both ASC and 5th house, so the astrologer might try to fortify this planet to see if it helps. This is by no means a guarantee for conception, but the election can make successful conception far more likely. Which gender would you like your baby to have?

I absolutely loved this answer as it was very informative, I really want an astrological election as I mentioned above but you have kindly informed me of the name of this "prediction". I think I could really benefit from this. The woman online who seems to be good charges £150. And yes I noticed the tight connection in the chart between me and my Gemini other half with the tight conjunction. And my partner would love a boy one day and I wouldn't mind either gender as I would feel so happy and blessed to have either.

Thank you all for responses I've had an interesting read
 

Edward

Well-known member
I absolutely loved this answer as it was very informative, I really want an astrological election as I mentioned above but you have kindly informed me of the name of this "prediction". I think I could really benefit from this. The woman online who seems to be good charges £150. And yes I noticed the tight connection in the chart between me and my Gemini other half with the tight conjunction. And my partner would love a boy one day and I wouldn't mind either gender as I would feel so happy and blessed to have either.

Thank you all for responses I've had an interesting read

I'll go and try to make an astrological election for free, as I'm interested in the glory of astrology rather than in my personal wealth. I'm not a "professional" astrologer, so I'm open to discussion and suggestions.

Our time-frame is 2013, right? You might want to wait another year, but as I understand you want to get pregnant rather soon.

First, I think we'll have to fortify Mars in the electional chart, because your natal charts both have Scorpio rising and Aries on the 5th cusp. So we look up our ephemerides to see what Mars does from late April 2013 on till the end of our year. Right now, Mars is travelling through Taurus, which I would prefer to avoid, because it is his exile, furthermore he is combust of the Sun right now, a bad sign for fertility. In June, Mars will pass on to Gemini, a barren sign. In the middle of July he will have entered the fertile sign of Cancer. At the end of August, the barren sign of Leo. He will move on to the barren sign of Virgo in the middle of October, and in December he will traverse in his other exile of Libra. So I guess, we should take Mars in Cancer, which leaves us a rough time frame from 14th of July till the 29th of August 2013.

Now we must consider the aspects of Mars during his passage in Cancer. We would like to see him in applicative aspects to fertile planets like Jupiter, Venus and of course, the Moon (which is fertile and furthermore always important in astrological elections). We would like to choose a day in which the Moon is also in a fertile sign.

Now if we look at the evening hours of 24th July, a Wednesday, we can see the Moon in Pisces applying to Venus (though by opposition), then trine to Saturn in Scorpio (negligible), but after that applying to trine Jupiter and Mars, both of which are placed in Cancer. BINGO! This is already a good candidate in prospect. Now we must choose an Ascendant and fine-tune it to the place where the event is going to happen. As Lisa has told me via PN, they regularly live at Liverpool, so we must adjust our time to this place. I suggest 10:15 PM in the evening, when the ASC will be at 2° Pisces, right on the Moon. Here's the chart, cast for Liverpool:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130423/p2zhxx8k.png

The ruler of the electional ASC, Jupiter, is in fruitful Cancer on the cusp of the 5th house (Placidus). Jupiter is tightly, though separatively, conjunct Mars (which in the nativities of both man and woman was ruler of the ASC and of the 5th). Furthermore, Jupiter and the Moon are in mutual reception by domicile. As Pisces and Cancer are female signs, and the Moon first applies to Venus in a female sign, I think this would give a greater chance to conceive a girl than a boy.

But as you told us that you prefer to have a boy, we can look for an alternative. Ten days later, on Saturday the 3rd of August, the Moon will be in Cancer itself, applying to conjoin first Jupiter and after that Mars. We still have to pick the right time for the ASC. This time I suggest Aries, though less fertile than Pisces, yet he contains the cusps of the 5th houses in both natal charts of the couple for whom the election is made. More importantly, Aries is a male sign, which will aid to get the woman pregnant with a man-child. As for the exact time, I suggest 10:22 PM in the evening. Here's the chart, cast for Liverpool:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130423/2ynbq3q7.png

The ASC will just have entered Aries, and Mars will still be on the 5th cusp (Placidus) according to the 5-degree rule. The Moon will immediately conjunct Jupiter (a male planet) in fertile Cancer, both of them placed in an angular house, and then move on to conjoin male planet Mars on the cusp of the 5th. If everything goes as planned, this should show the successful conception of a boy taking place.


So this leaves us with two alternatives:

1) Wednesday, 24th of July, 10:15 PM in the evening, Liverpool ---> in favour of a girl

2) Saturday, 3rd of August, 10:22 PM (not earlier!) in the evening, Liverpool ---> in favour of a boy



Personally I would recommend the second option, not only because the couple wishes to have a boy, but also since the Moon won't have to apply Venus and Saturn first before she can reach Jupiter and Mars. Saturn, as a barren planet, might prove an obstacle to the Moon.

Now, what do you do? We cannot predetermine the exact moment of conception, because we don't know when the sperm will fertilize the egg. The times given above rather indicate the moment when the clothes should be taken off and intimacy start to take place. Until then, I would recommend you follow the strict course exactly as proposed by Rosie7 (healthy eating, bodily exercise, no cigarettes nor alcohol), with one exception:
I would also advise you to abstain from any kind of sexual activities till the time of the astrological election comes. The first reason is, because it will render the election much more useless (if you try it again every evening, it is nothing special anymore), second, because mental and physical preparation is always advisable, third, because masturbation and sexual excesses can render both man and woman barren, frigid or impotent. Hence NO sex nor masturbation for the time being, please. Not as a couple, not with other people.

After the act has taken place, I would still wait for one or two weeks because successful fertilization might take some time. Until then, live a life as clean and chaste as possible. Good luck to you.


PS: Constructing this election took me roughly an hour time of work (writing it down included), so it was comparatively easy in this case. Now is this really worth £150? I don't think so. Especially, since I'm a mere student of astrology, an amateur, not a professional.
 

LisaAngela

Well-known member
Wow I thank you so much for this and for the hour of your time :) In regards to the dates given these would not fit in with my Lunar calendar, my fertile dates for July is the 6th and August 5th. that being said I am definitely going to try these dates and times, I have read the importance of times and plan to buy "OUR FERTILE HOURS - Emily Faugno" from Amazon. I will of course keep you updated as to whether this year is a successful year! My instinct is saying yes... I wish there was a way I can return the favour! I will keep you updated, Thanks Edward
 

Edward

Well-known member
Wow I thank you so much for this and for the hour of your time :) In regards to the dates given these would not fit in with my Lunar calendar, my fertile dates for July is the 6th and August 5th. that being said I am definitely going to try these dates and times, I have read the importance of times and plan to buy "OUR FERTILE HOURS - Emily Faugno" from Amazon. I will of course keep you updated as to whether this year is a successful year! My instinct is saying yes... I wish there was a way I can return the favour! I will keep you updated, Thanks Edward

Choose a singular date of the two, not both in succession! I would recommend the second date on 3rd of August. 10:22 PM - not a single minute earlier, as this might render the election useless, since the ASC were in Pisces and not in Aries (yet, 1 or 2 minutes LATER would be still tolerable). Start getting your clothes off at this time, and then work towards your goal. Don't waste time, nor get interrupted in the act.

Please remember not to have any sexual activity till the date given (and also not some weeks afterwards, as fertilization needs time). Keep to the general plan in order to improve fertility.

Live a chaste, healthy life. This way you will do me - and much more, still, yourselves - a great favour.
 

Rosie7

Well-known member
In practically all classic texts on western astrology I've come across it is stated that Gemini, Leo and Virgo are barren signs. Read for example William Lilly, Guido Bonatti and Al-Biruni.

Hey there Edward, that was the 1600's. In those days, male-centric ideologies provided great latitude for men to make all kinds of unsubstantiated claims about women, their bodies, their mental states, their sexuality, and their relevance in the world. Please provide current and relevant medical evidence to support these claims that you wholeheartedly espouse.

Preparation is always useful. I agree with you on all points except on the last one. What do you understand by "good sex" resp. "bad sex"?

Qualitatively: good is sex is enjoyable sex which, I think, is an essential factor in facilitating the process of making babies.
 
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