Quintiles aspecting aspecting ASC

UraSatVen1029

Well-known member
Would this still influence the ASC? I read that quintiles have until 2 degrees orb for it to be considered. I also read on some other sites and forums that quintiles are like your... creative energy? Talent? Does it play out like a trine? A sextile? And would it be subtle or obvious?

Would personal planets have more obvious and direct energy in this one?
 

D-Rok

Well-known member
Would this still influence the ASC? I read that quintiles have until 2 degrees orb for it to be considered. I also read on some other sites and forums that quintiles are like your... creative energy? Talent? Does it play out like a trine? A sextile? And would it be subtle or obvious?

Would personal planets have more obvious and direct energy in this one?

Rule of thumb for aspects:

Trine, Sextile, Square, Opposition and Conjunction are the only aspects that *really* do anything.

Bi-quintile, semi-quincunx, and god knows whatever blasphemous nonsensical aspects do not affect your chart at all.
 

waybread

Well-known member
D-Rok has given you a sarcastic traditional western interpretation.

D-Rock, had you thought of giving your opinion without making derogatory comments about modern practice?

In modern astrology quintiles can be very powerful. They give a combination of talent plus the ambition to manifest that talent. This doesn't mean that a quintile indicates fame or special prominence. A moon quintile Venus, for example, might just indicate a woman who knows how to look feminine and dresses to advantage, or has a hobby of cake decorating.

I would use a narrow orb for the so-called minor aspects. Even one degree. Maybe stretch it to two with a luminary involved. But once you're into minor aspects, they tend to bump into one another if you're not strict. For example, there's not a lot of daylight between a bi-quintile of 144 degrees and a quincunx of 150.

In my experience, a quintile can give a huge amount of pressure for the individual to manifest the energies of the two planets. I once read a chart for someone who confessed a desire to control the world's monetary supply. It turned out that he had a second house sun quintile Pluto. Here, Pluto's obsessive quality was brought out by the quintile. I have sun quintile ascendant, which I have experienced as a desire to make something (quintile) of myself (sun, ascendant.) Of course, other chart factors can modify the quintile's expression.

If you've got quintiles in your chart, I'd be curious to learn how you think they manifest.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Rule of thumb for aspects:

Trine, Sextile, Square, Opposition and Conjunction are the only aspects that *really* do anything.

Bi-quintile, semi-quincunx, and god knows whatever blasphemous nonsensical aspects do not affect your chart at all.
Agreed. And aspects are overrated anyway.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Sorry, but I think you're missing a lot if you neglect minor aspects. Quintiles can be very strong, as are quincunxes. Some people march to the beat of a different drummer. Charts of geniuses Einstein and Mozart are notable for their emphasis on quintiles and septiles.

Quintiles and the 8-series were proposed by a traditional astrologer: Johannes Kepler, also noted as an astronomer. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/kepler.html

When a planet quintiles your ascendant, you will feel some pressure to develop yourself according to that planet's nature.
 

D-Rok

Well-known member
Agreed. And aspects are overrated anyway.

I will say this, aspects are seriously very important as they show how the “characters” (planets) behave toward each other. Application and separation are things I really try to look at now especially with talismanic magic which is typically where my focus is nowadays.

All-in-all, aspects are crucial for what they represent, just make sure you’re looking at the valid ones. If you want to look at the other aspects you can, but I’m just saying, it won’t be as valid as the traditional method. And as we all are students of astrology here, isn’t that precisely what we are looking for? Correctness and accuracy?

Just my own consideration as a novice.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
I will say this, aspects are seriously very important as they show how the “characters” (planets) behave toward each other. Application and separation are things I really try to look at now especially with talismanic magic which is typically where my focus is nowadays.

All-in-all, aspects are crucial for what they represent, just make sure you’re looking at the valid ones. If you want to look at the other aspects you can, but I’m just saying, it won’t be as valid as the traditional method. And as we all are students of astrology here, isn’t that precisely what we are looking for? Correctness and accuracy?

Just my own consideration as a novice.
We are on the same page here. I'm not suggesting ignoring aspects. What I am suggesting is to be conscious about how we weigh all these different astrological factors. There are a lot of people here who only look at aspects and ignore all the rest. That's turning things upside down.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I will say this, aspects are seriously very important as they show how the “characters” (planets) behave toward each other. Application and separation are things I really try to look at now especially with talismanic magic which is typically where my focus is nowadays.

All-in-all, aspects are crucial for what they represent, just make sure you’re looking at the valid ones. If you want to look at the other aspects you can, but I’m just saying, it won’t be as valid as the traditional method. And as we all are students of astrology here, isn’t that precisely what we are looking for? Correctness and accuracy?

Just my own consideration as a novice.

If you're a novice, D-Rok (and a very talented one at that, I might note :cool: ) I just recommend that you try working with minor aspects before making up your mind. I think it's out-of-print, but if you can find it, just a great book on minor aspects (and other topics) is Harding and Harvey, Working With Astrology that gives a methodology for using minor aspects. Alice Portman www.aliceportman.com has a lot of good articles based on her extensive research with minor aspects, as well.

Modern astrologers often do a lot of research before they push the traditional envelope.

I've been studying astrology for 27 years and reading charts on-line for 10. This doesn't make me the resident expert, but it does give me some confidence to assert that quintiles involving the AS or inner planets have real influence. Again, some talent plus the ambition to try to manifest it. If you've got such quintiles in your chart or someone you know well, I recommend that you take an open-minded look.
 

D-Rok

Well-known member
If you're a novice, D-Rok (and a very talented one at that, I might note :cool: ) I just recommend that you try working with minor aspects before making up your mind. I think it's out-of-print, but if you can find it, just a great book on minor aspects (and other topics) is Harding and Harvey, Working With Astrology that gives a methodology for using minor aspects. Alice Portman www.aliceportman.com has a lot of good articles based on her extensive research with minor aspects, as well.

Modern astrologers often do a lot of research before they push the traditional envelope.

I've been studying astrology for 27 years and reading charts on-line for 10. This doesn't make me the resident expert, but it does give me some confidence to assert that quintiles involving the AS or inner planets have real influence. Again, some talent plus the ambition to try to manifest it. If you've got such quintiles in your chart or someone you know well, I recommend that you take an open-minded look.

Fair enough, I should consider the contemporary views of aspects, and will do so.

Some food for thought, brought to you by the contemporary Ryhan Butler:

(I do not own nor did I create the following text, but I bring it to you in hope of gaining some insight)

“In the ancient world, scientists and philosophers observed geometrical patterns in nature and understood the ratios in these patterns as representative of divine order in the universe. Sacred meanings were then ascribed to specific patterns, shapes, and ratios. Considered something of a sister science to the study of optics (both having to do with rays and angles), geometry also plays a large part in planetary aspects. The premise is that when two planets are within an aspectual relationship, the angle they form between them is indicative of the nature of that relationship based in part on the figure they imprint on the heavenly sphere behind them. The 90° aspect gets some of its interpretation from the fact that a series of 90° aspects will form the shape of a square in the sky. More importantly, these ideas of classical geometry and the Pythagoreanism from which they arose impose limitations on what can and cannot be classically regarded as aspects with interpretive value.

One of the central premises of traditional aspectual theory is the forms or shapes the aspects make as they link signs of the zodiac. Trine aspects make triangles and square aspects make squares. It is necessary that an aspect type be able to make a complete figure in the zodiac that links signs in a specific and unique way. This is a criteria that the opposition, trine, square, and sextile fulfill.

The sextile aspect forms two different hexagons, one made of masculine signs (Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, and Aquarius) and the other made of feminine signs (Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn, and Pisces).
The square aspect forms three distinct squares, separating the signs by quadruplicity; one of cardinal signs (Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn), one of fixed signs (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius), and one of mutable signs (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces).
Likewise, the trine aspect forms four triangles which group the signs together by element; a fire trine (Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius), an earth trine (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn), an air trine (Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius), and a water trine (Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces).
The opposition also separates the zodiac into six sets of lines; Aries/Libra, Taurus/Scorpio, Gemini/Sagittarius, Cancer/Capricorn, Leo/Aquarius, and Virgo/Pisces.

As we have seen, traditional astrology relies on the five Ptolemaic aspects, so called because they were the only aspects described by Ptolemy in his work Tetrabiblos (Book I, Chapter XVI), which for many centuries was the oldest astrology reference available. Recent discoveries and translations of earlier works demonstrate that these aspects are
much older. These are the conjunction (0° !), the sextile (60° '), the square (90° #), the
trine (120° $), and the opposition (180° "). It is also worth mentioning that older texts will often refer to aspects by their geometric names based on the divisions of the circle; sextiles are called “hexagons” or “hexagonal” because they represent 1/6th of a circle, squares are called “tetragons” or “quartiles” as they represent 1/4th of a circle, and trines are called “trigons” for they are 1/3rd of the circle. Conjunctions are referred to as “assemblies,” and while viewed as an aspect for the sake of conversation, the conjunction carries an entirely different set of circumstances that often is only given a passing nod in more recent texts. In this section we will address the semi-sextile and the quincunx (inconjunct) as these are so called “minor aspects”. While not aspects proper, they do have meaning within the traditional framework.

The conjunction, however, is unique among these in that it is not treated like the other aspects and does not have the typical sight or light words used to describe it. Conjunctions are referred to as “aspects by body” or some other phrasing of the same, which suggests that the two planets have physically blended. Aspects by degree connect the light of one planet to the body of another. Conjunctions represent something stronger – a union of both planets’ light and body in the same degree of longitude - an incredibly powerful blend of planetary force. These are more intimate and often more difficult to interpret as the conjunction does not have a planetary nature to assist us in understanding it. When a conjunction occurs, the nature of the planets involved becomes paramount in interpreting it. Conjunctions involving Saturn are going to be less pleasant than ones involving Venus, for example.“

Again, this is mostly for people who are pretty new with most of the basics. I have never been able to pass most of the bread and butter stuff without freaking out over something or another, so I stay in my comfort zone. I’m happy to know the basics. But heliacal rise, planetary lots, profections, and complicated stuff like that, are best (for me) left at arm’s length.
 

UraSatVen1029

Well-known member
D-Rok has given you a sarcastic traditional western interpretation.

D-Rock, had you thought of giving your opinion without making derogatory comments about modern practice?

In modern astrology quintiles can be very powerful. They give a combination of talent plus the ambition to manifest that talent. This doesn't mean that a quintile indicates fame or special prominence. A moon quintile Venus, for example, might just indicate a woman who knows how to look feminine and dresses to advantage, or has a hobby of cake decorating.

I would use a narrow orb for the so-called minor aspects. Even one degree. Maybe stretch it to two with a luminary involved. But once you're into minor aspects, they tend to bump into one another if you're not strict. For example, there's not a lot of daylight between a bi-quintile of 144 degrees and a quincunx of 150.

In my experience, a quintile can give a huge amount of pressure for the individual to manifest the energies of the two planets. I once read a chart for someone who confessed a desire to control the world's monetary supply. It turned out that he had a second house sun quintile Pluto. Here, Pluto's obsessive quality was brought out by the quintile. I have sun quintile ascendant, which I have experienced as a desire to make something (quintile) of myself (sun, ascendant.) Of course, other chart factors can modify the quintile's expression.

If you've got quintiles in your chart, I'd be curious to learn how you think they manifest.

I apologize for the really late reply! I've been really busy for the past few days because of exams!

I was gonna accept that quintiles wont do anything on the ascendant though. I have Sun and Venus Scorpio quintile my Ascendant. Does this mean I can manifest some Sun-like and Venus-like qualities on my outward appearance? Do I have to put more effort in it? Or is it natural? What do you mean by "talent" and how would it differ from Trines?

I have Mercury quintile Uranus and Mars quintile mercury too. I have a few other biquintiles but the one I look at the most is Saturn biquintile Pluto. That's it. Saturn is my chart ruler so I was thinking of considering that as well.
 

UraSatVen1029

Well-known member
Sorry, but I think you're missing a lot if you neglect minor aspects. Quintiles can be very strong, as are quincunxes. Some people march to the beat of a different drummer. Charts of geniuses Einstein and Mozart are notable for their emphasis on quintiles and septiles.

Quintiles and the 8-series were proposed by a traditional astrologer: Johannes Kepler, also noted as an astronomer. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/kepler.html

When a planet quintiles your ascendant, you will feel some pressure to develop yourself according to that planet's nature.

Why pressure?
 

waybread

Well-known member
D-Rok, my understanding is that the Ptolemaic aspects were based on Pythagorean numerology, and then he took his aspects by sign, not by degrees.

Obviously nature is full of all kinds of numbers. Five fingers on a hand, five toes on a foot, 5 petals on most species of the rose family, in a wild state. The Egyptian hieroglyph for "star" had 5 points. 5 is "the number of man" with the head and limbs forming a 5-pointed figure.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...tals_The_mysterious_number_5_hidden_in_nature

But basically modern astrologers are fine with new research that shows relationships unexplored in traditional astrology. We don't see the sum of astrological knowledge as ending in 1700 CE. I highly recommend the articles I linked by Alice Portman, or try David Cochrane.

UraSat-- Why pressure? Why does any aspect mean what it does? But I would say with a quintile, either you feel it or you don't. One theory, however, is that the quintile at 72 degrees is midway between the square (tension) and sextile (easy flow.) It doesn't scream at you like the square, but it does impel you to do something. Similarly the bi-quintile at 144 degrees is between the opposition and trine.
 
Rule of thumb for aspects:

Trine, Sextile, Square, Opposition and Conjunction are the only aspects that *really* do anything.

Bi-quintile, semi-quincunx, and god knows whatever blasphemous nonsensical aspects do not affect your chart at all.

Sorry. that is BS! Every aspect means something and if you Divide the Circle from 1-11 you get to see that even the secondary aspects mean something.

Quintiles:
People generally think of Q's as being involved with Genius.To a certain extent that is true. In the common mans chart I equate it with intuitive ability to see things that others can not conceive or see solutions for.

EX: A mechanic can be asked by another Mech. for help on a problem ,even being a seasoned mech. ,but I have seen Mechanics come in and instinctively know what the problem is. Then advise what corrective actions should be taken.

Do not short change the secondary aspects. I have been an active Professional Astrologer since 15yrs. old and I am 57 now. Look at the Majors first then add or look through another chart to see and analyse the Secondary Aspects and Planetary Formations.
 

OCHS

Member
Hello,

I am an aficionado of these topics and I am beginning to analyze my natal chart in depth.
I am familiar with the basics and had never noticed the quintiles.
I have registered in this forum which is fantastic and I read often.



Just after reading this forum right now I have consulted certain programs and they look pretty, look enclosed file

wax.=waxing, wan.=waning (?) sep.=separating, app.=applying

Moon (Sag 05°39') Pluto (Vir 20°56') wax. sep. quintile (72°00') orb: 2°43'
Moon (Sag 05°39') North Node (Vir 21°41') wax. sep. quintile (72°00') orb: 1°58'
Venus (Vir 07°10') Neptune (Sco 20°34') wan. app. quintile (72°00') orb: 1°24'
Venus (Vir 07°10') Chiron (Ari 10°19') wax. sep. biquintile (144°00') orb: 2°51'
Venus (Vir 07°10') Ascendant (Aqu 01°43') wax. sep. biquintile (144°00') orb: 0°33'
Venus (Vir 07°10') Midheaven (Sco 18°15') wax. app. quintile (72°00') orb: 0°55'
Saturn (Leo 04°23') Uranus (Lib 17°27') wan. app. quintile (72°00') orb: 1°04'
Saturn (Leo 04°23') Black Moon (Tau 26°08') wan. sep. quintile (72°00') orb: 3°46'
Uranus (Lib 17°27') Black Moon (Tau 26°08') wan. sep. biquintile (144°00') orb: 2°41'
Neptune (Sco 20°34') Ascendant (Aqu 01°43') wax. app. quintile (72°00') orb: 0°51'
Chiron (Ari 10°19') Ascendant (Aqu 01°43') wan. sep. quintile (72°00') orb: 3°24'
Chiron (Ari 10°19') Midheaven (Sco 18°15') wan. sep. biquintile (144°00') orb: 1°56'
Ascendant (Aqu 01°43') Midheaven (Sco 18°15') app. quintile (72°00') orb: 1°28'


How do you consider interpreting the quintiles? how much closer to the sextile than to the trine or vice versa? (or good as nothing too ...)

Would any of them have any special significance here, for planets? by orb?
I'm sorry, my knowledge is poor and my vision of my own chart is short; I have not yet captured a joinnt vision" and I do not know which are my strongest planets ...



On the web I have not found too extensive information about quintiles and biquintiles.
Thanks for your opinion.
 

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