Progressed Sun conjunct natal Saturn

BobZemco said:

I use The American Ephemeris for the 20th Century
and The American Ephemeris for the 21st Century (2000 to 2050) (both are for Noon).
They're great desktop references and they make wonderful paperweights, plus they look cool on the coffee table.

There's also Ephemeris files for 9000 years on astro.com http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

The Outers move only a few minutes
and your main concern is will they go Retrograde
or if they are, will they go Direct.

If your Sun or Ascendant, progresses into Libra, you'll take on some (but not all) of those qualities.
As a Virgo, if you're a perfectionist and Venus is in bad shape and the Sun moves into Libra
you might become a little apathetic and that'll take some of the edge of that perfectionist streak.
That's probably a bad example but the only one I can think of at the moment.

Then that house is going to have a lot of activity, especially as transiting Planets move round and set off aspects.
Jupiter goes round in 12 years or so and spends about a month in each sign more or less.....
Jupiter will oppose Planets, then move to trine, then square, then sextile,
and you'll need to look at the natal houses Jupiter rules
plus the houses ruled by the progressed Planets in Libra
and the house of Libra to get a picture of what to expect.

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BobZemco said:

A lot of people seem to have problems understanding progressions.
The progressed Planets are nothing more than very very slow moving transits.
Progressions are very internal in nature, meaning they're more likely to affect you mentally than physically.
That doesn't mean progressions don't affect you physically, they can, for example
a Planet progressing into the 6th House
or the 6th House Ruler progressing into the 8th or 12th House
or into certain aspects with the rulers of the 6th, 8th or 12th Houses
can signify an illness.

Progressions are something you do maybe once in your life, and one of the best ways to do that is to write them down.....
An ephemeris will look something like this:

Date............Sun....... Moon..... Mercury...Venus
May 26 1962 04°Ge28' 26°Aq47' 20°Ge23' 03°Cn43'
May 27 1962 05°Ge25' 10°Pi51' 20°Ge22' R 04°Cn55'
May 28 1962 06°Ge23' 25°Pi05' 20°Ge16' 06°Cn07'
May 29 1962 07°Ge21' 09°Ar25' 20°Ge05' 07°Cn19'

The symbolism is "day-for-a-year" so each day after your birthday is one year of your life.

Generally, you want to look at 120 days
which is 120 years of your life.
Yes, I know you're not going to live 120 years
but none of you are special. When you die, the Solar System does not grind to a halt
it continues moving. Your chart lives on, even after you die.

There are somethings you might want to know about.
Is your Will contested? Does your Estate end up in Probate Court? Does the government seize your Estate?
Do your children fight over it? Does your spouse remarry?
Maybe you want to comeback and haunt your spouse
(or protect your spouse).
Do your children marry, divorce, have more children
do your grandchildren marry etc.

Will you receive any awards or accolades, or publish a book?
No kidding, a guy in Australia found his grandfather's diary of life in the trenches during World War I.
He published it. Guess what?
It showed up in the progressions of the grandfather's natal chart.

Here's a snippet from my progressions (sorry the formatting is less than desirable):

Natal .. Position.. Action.. Age.. Date .. ..........Location .. Contact
Venus.. 04°Cn39' Sign .....19 ....Jun 13 1962... 25°Cn14'.. 9th House
Saturn .11°Aq22' Square ..19 ... Jun 13 1962 ...11°Ta17'.. Mars
Neptune 11°Sc29' Opp .....19.... Jun 13 1962 ... 11°Ta17' Mars
Mars 28°Ar29' ...Square ...22 ....Jun 16 1962 .... 28°Cn47' Venus
Uranus 28°Le37' Qu .........22 ....Jun 16 1962..... 28°Cn47' Venus
Venus 04°Cn39' Sign .......23 .....Jun 17 1962..... 29°Cn58' Leo
Mercury 20°Ge22' D ........26...... Jun 20 1962 .....11°Ge52' D Mercury
Mars 28°Ar29' Sextile ......26 ......Jun 20 1962 .....28°Ge23' Sun
Uranus 28°Le37' Sextile ....26 ..... Jun 20 1962 .... 28°Ge23' Sun
Venus 04°Cn39' SSx........ 27 ......Jun 21 1962...... 04°Le41' Venus
Sun 05°Ge13' Con........... 28 ...... Jun 22 1962 .... 05°Le52' Venus
Sun 05°Ge13' Sign ..........28 ....... Jun 22 1962..... 00°Cn18' Sign
Jupiter 10°Pi38' SSx ........28....... Jun 22 1962...... 10°Aq38' Saturn
Moon 07°Pi41' Qu ..........29....... Jun 23 1962 ...... 07°Le03' Venus
Pluto 07°Vi32' Con ........29 ...... Jun 23 1962....... 07°Le03' Venus
MC 01°Vi31' Sextile...... 29 ........Jun 23 1962....... 01°Cn15' Sun

All I've done is write out the year in which there is some contact with progressed Planets.

At age 19, my natal Venus progressed to conjunct the 9th House Cusp at 25° Cancer.

How do you interpret that?

The 9th House Cusp is Cancer ruled by my Moon in my natal 4th House. What is the 9th House? Among things, it's long journeys. 4th House is the home.

I left the United States and didn't return for about 10 years.

See? It ain't so hard.

At age 23 my Venus progressed into the Sign of Leo. I got married. Because Venus progressed into Leo? Not entirely.
My natal Mercury was Stationary in the natal 7th House, then it went Retrograde and then it went direct at age 26.
In reality, I was actually 25 1/2 years old when Mercury went Direct in my 7th House of Relationships.

That is one of the advantages of writing out your progressions.
When you see something like that,
natal Venus progressed into the 9th House
then into the Sign of Leo
while Mercury goes Direct,
you want to actually do a chart for that time period
and then also look at the transits
so you can get a sense of the timing
(in this case transiting Moon conjunct Ascendant).

When I was 28, natal Sun changed Signs and entered Cancer.
Did I become a Cancer? No, but I did take on some of the traits of Cancer.
I became more sensitive, very emotional and extremely traditional, plus I took on a few of the negative characteristics,
like brooding and being way too cautious, but then I was suffering from PTSD and the effects were starting to manifest themselves in a serious way.

When my Ascendant progressed into Sagittarius, I did not become a Sagittarius,
but I did take on a few traits, like being really straightforward, to the point of being very blunt,
and also broadminded and quite the procrastinator.

Natal .... Position .. Action ....Age... Date ............ Location .. Contact
Asc...... 20°Sc43' ..Sextile ....90 .... Aug 23 1962 ...20°Vi41' ... Mercury
Sun..... 05°Ge13' .. Sign .......91 .... Aug 24 1962... 00°Vi33' ....Virgo
MC ......01°Vi31' ....Sextile.... 91 .... Aug 24 1962 .. 01°Cn06'... Mars
Sun.... 05°Ge13'.... House .... 92..... Aug 25 1962 .. 01°Vi31' ...10th House
MC ......01°Vi31'..... Con .......92 .... Aug 25 1962... 01°Vi31' ... Sun

There's where I exit stage left. Not because of those particular progressions, mind you,
but because of that and other things going on with transits and the Anareta wants to Tango.

The other benefit to writing out your progressions is
that if you don't know the houses, signs, elements and natures
(and that would be about 80% of you),
then you will when you're done.
The elements trine, the natures oppose and square, sextiles are always Fire/Air or Earth/Water etc.

I recommend using some of the minor aspects, like the quincunx, semi-sextile and semi-square.

Often in your life you might notice periods where your relationship with your children, spouse, parents, friends, co-workers or supervisors is a little testy and irritating.
I guarantee you'll always find a semi-sextile or semi-square there.
And the advantage of knowing that in advance is that you can take a "time-out,"
give yourself a "yellow card," take a different approach or do other things
to make your life and everyone else's more pleasant.

Aspect orbs for progressions are 30' to 1° maximum.
In addition to aspects,
Planets changing Signs, Houses or going Direct or Retrograde are very important to note.
For Planets that go Direct or Retrograde, flip ahead in the ephemeris
and look to see if any transiting Planets are conjunct that point,
because it will be emphasized.
The same is true if a progressed Planet goes Direct or Retrograde at the pre-natal eclipses
or the last Moon before birth (which will either be a Full Moon or a New Moon).

What if a progressed Planet goes Direct or Retrograde at the same point where there is a transiting Eclipse or New/Full Moon for that month?
I don't know, but note it and look at it in detail later.
You can ignore Lunar Eclipses after 3 months, but for Solar Eclipses it'll depend on the nature of the Sign
(ie 3 months for Cardinal, 6 months for Mutable and 12 months for Fixed).

After you make your list or table, look at past events
and see if you can make sense of them.
As I said, not everything will manifest itself in a way that you can physically see.
Once you get a feel for past events, you can start looking at future events.

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Waki said:

Oh Abby! I did have a sense that I may not have got your question right...

It's an interesting question it seems

So, in that progressed chart, with Placidus domiication, most of Leo is 7th House --a very big house that starts at 10 Cancer and ends at 24 Leo, and from then onward, it's 8th house of course. So I am not sure what to say. The cusp in Leo is 8th house, but most of the Leo sign is 7th. What do you think? 7th or 8th?

Then, the 8th house is even larger as it covers all of Virgo and ends only at 7 Libra, so I am not sure we can regard that 8th house as being Leo... (?) It's bit of Leo, all of Virgo (intercepted) and bit of Libra.

For Saturn it's easier. Capricorn is rising, AC at 10 Cap. 1st house covers most of Cap, and most of Aquarius too (it's also a Saturnian sign), where the 2d house starts at 24 Aqua.

Depending on the domification system, there are variations. Some make Leo more clearly 8th house (the cusp at about 10 Leo), some make it fully 7th (leo intercepted, next cusp in next sign).

Do you have any comment on the New Moon factor?

When you say
"So for me, when my progressed sun conjunct Saturn in scorpio, the sun was 10th house ruler and Saturn was 2nd house ruler. The focus during the time of that conjunction for me involved setting up a career and focusing on money (even though it didn't last)"

...do you mean that owing to that focus, you had more energy invested there, and were more efficient and successful, or just more concerned or even more worried?

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Waki said:

Hi JUPITERASC

That's quite a thorough teaching on progressions!

I am actually trying to write down my main progressions, and luckilly a softwares helps me lot!

This pr.Sun on natal Satunn ahead of me looks like a special thing ahead, especially as progressed Moon will join the picture.

So what is your word about a progressed New Moon conjunct natal Saturn, knowing that the natal Saturn in H5 Aries was quite repressive and inhibitive, and that the progression puts the setting in H3, in a square with progressed AS ?

Actually the exact New Moon does not occur exactly on natal Saturn, there are 20 minutes of orb to cover, which will take 6 months for the progressed Sun to cover. Still, it will be on the same degree as natal saturn. I bet the time of the progressed New Moon is more important than the time of the exact conjunction, given that it was only a 20 minute issue.

At the exact time of the progressed New Moon, there is one single yet impressive transiting aspect. A square from Cap: t.Sun conjunct t.Venus!
Both are right on the progressed AC, (the Sun less than 1 degree from AC in H1, Venus less than 2 degrees, from H12)

At the exact time of progressed Sun conjunct natal Saturn, the only transiting aspect to that conjunction will come from.... transiting Saturn, squaring itself from Cap. Ouch!
The orb of the square will be less than 2 degrees. Saturn will be 3 degrees from progressed AC (in pr. h12).

What does this mean? What could I do with this? How can I prepare?
I have no idea whatsoever, but all these transits and aspects seems to indicate that this is going to be a significant time, all with all these squares and AC from Capi, the Saturnian touch of it would be very enhanced.

Any comment?

(there is no Mercury transit, i was too quick and not precise enough)

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Hi Waki

Creating a chart of the moment of the NEW MOON you referenced
and then
placing that chart on a bi-wheel with natal chart on the outer rim
would assist with assessing the implications
Equally useful is creating a bi-wheel from the alternative perspective
i.e.
placing the chart of the moment of the NEW MOON you mention on the outer rim of a bi-wheel
with natal chart on central rim

In fact a tri-wheel that includes the progressed chart at that time is needed

If your birth time is correct, then id say 8th house is leo. Im not an expert on 8th house matters so it would be good to look this up as it will conjunct you (Saturn), having an effect on your body too.

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"The focus during the time of that conjunction for me .... didn't last"

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Creating a chart of the moment of the NEW MOON you referenced
and then placing that chart on a bi-wheel with natal chart on the outer rim
would assist with assessing the implications.
Equally useful is creating a bi-wheel from the alternative perspective
i.e. placing the chart of the moment of the NEW MOON you mention on the outer rim of a bi-wheel with natal chart on central rim

In fact a tri-wheel that includes the progressed chart at that time is needed

Click to expand...

Waki said:

Hi Jupiter Asc

I suppose you meant a tri-wheel that includes the transits at the time, right?
My software does not build tri-wheel charts,
but my former comments were all based on the 2-wheels charts --progressed affecting natal, and the transits.

You seem to say that the New Moon in this case is more important than the exact conjunction progressed Saturn - natal Sun, right?
It's important to know, because the transits will be very different concerning the fast moving planets, since there are 6 months between the two. That does not make a big difference in the progressed chart, only for the progressed Moon, who at the time of the exact Sun/saturn will be... guess...
Conjunct progressed Saturn. Not exact, but less than one degree.
and still loosely square the pr. AC in Cap.

Wow I guess Saturn --and Capricorn--, is going to be the big guy for me then, and possibly for 29 years to come??


There are many other things happening in the progressed chart then.
Like a very exact square Jupiter/Uranus, with Jupiter in Leo H8... But these things have already started years earlier.

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If you are able to create two-wheel charts then study the following:
New Moon centrally with Progressions on outer rim
New Moon centrally with Natal on outer rim
Progressions centrally with New Moon on outer rim
Natal centrally with New Moon on outer rim

JUPITERASC said:

Medical records are not precise regarding time of birth
the variation is dependent on the particular hospital routine for record-keeping
One of our members who works as a nurse informed us some time ago
that times of birth as well as times of death at their hospital are not recorded at the precise moment but often hours afterwards
In fact at time of birth, the medical team are focused on health, safety and welfare of both mother and newborn
and are not gazing intently at their watches

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Waki said:

I am wondering if there is a way to get prepared. Anyone?

Abby, is there anything, in restrospect, that you think could have helped you go in the best way thrugh that configuration, if you had known?

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