waybread
Well-known member
Olivia, thanks for your impassioned and insightful reply.
Gosh! My religion--such as it is/isn't, in no way forbids astrology!
I think we are looking at the same history but we differ on whether astrology's glass is half-empty or half-full. Success in death predictions ought not be viewed like a batting average. If an astrologer is wrong with a client, that error is 100% for that individual. The consequences of that error can be serious for the client; and damaging for astrology more generally.
Astrology is not viewed as a highly credible undertaking even under good circumstances by decision-makers and professional people in western society. [Nancy Reagan notwithstanding.] Erroneous death predictions have the potential to further damage astrology's reputation, notably in jurisdictions where astrologers can be denied business licenses, or told that they must advertise their services as "for entertainment purposes only."
My personal strategy in certain situations in life is to consider that when the possibility of something going wrong is small, but the consequences of something going wrong are huge, I need to implement a lot of caution and safeguards. Astrological death predictions are one of these situations.
It would take me a while to retrieve them, but at one point I collected a set of ethics codes published by professional astrological associations. They seem opposed to any practices that would damage astrogers' professional credibility or that might harm vulnerable clients.
To me, an erroneous death prediction has more-than-small chances of going wrong, and fairly serious consequences, if it does, for the "native" in question. Just for example, seriously ill people, or people of a nervous disposition are highly suggestable. Most astrologers have no professional training in dealing with patients in end-of-life circumstances, nor in treating suicidal people. For most astrologers to think that they can actually "help" such people in some fashion is extremely foolish, arrogant, and potentially dangerous.
When my children were babies, I took every precaution against crib-death. I didn't need an astrologer to make me even more concerned than I already was about my babies' well-being.
Astrology surely has a tradition within Judaism, as exemplified by the zodiac floor mosaics in about half a dozen synagogues in Israel, some sects of Jewish mysticism, and the traditional Jewish calender. But astrology in any branches of normative Judaism is not seen as superior to God's power to run the universe to His liking. To the Hellenized Jews who built synagogues incorporating zodiac designs, the mosaics were a symbolic representation of God's ordering of the heavens.
Both professional and amateur scholars have looked at astrological symbolism in the Bible for several centuries. A few years ago, I made a stab at this myself. I think the 12 tribes symbolism plus many additional allusions are there in the pre-Hellenic material, but not necessarily with the commonly-held 12 zodiacal signs; as some of the descriptions of the tribes are poor fits with zodiac constellations. Rather, the state of the heavens during the Mediterranean rainy season was of prime importance to ancient Jews, and they included constellations both on and off the ecliptic.
In terms of whether any available or potential knowledge needs some kind of fruition, I have to disagree with this. Because something can be known, let alone implemented, doesn't mean that it should be. If the US Army could develop better anti-personnel devices for maiming children in Afghanistan, should they do this? If Monsanto can develop "terminator" seeds that would destroy poor farmers' abilities to save and replant their own viable seeds, should Monsanto collect the information and run the lab experiments to do so?
And the "knowledge" of Renaissance astrologers is questionable as knowledge, regardless. Despite the English Civil War, astrological knowledge persisted in continental Europe. Astrology died out in continental European universities by the late 18th century because its truth-claims were in shambles.
[BTW, I spent over 30 years as a university professor, prior to my retirement, so knowledge collection and dissemination were my business.]
Gosh! My religion--such as it is/isn't, in no way forbids astrology!
I think we are looking at the same history but we differ on whether astrology's glass is half-empty or half-full. Success in death predictions ought not be viewed like a batting average. If an astrologer is wrong with a client, that error is 100% for that individual. The consequences of that error can be serious for the client; and damaging for astrology more generally.
Astrology is not viewed as a highly credible undertaking even under good circumstances by decision-makers and professional people in western society. [Nancy Reagan notwithstanding.] Erroneous death predictions have the potential to further damage astrology's reputation, notably in jurisdictions where astrologers can be denied business licenses, or told that they must advertise their services as "for entertainment purposes only."
My personal strategy in certain situations in life is to consider that when the possibility of something going wrong is small, but the consequences of something going wrong are huge, I need to implement a lot of caution and safeguards. Astrological death predictions are one of these situations.
It would take me a while to retrieve them, but at one point I collected a set of ethics codes published by professional astrological associations. They seem opposed to any practices that would damage astrogers' professional credibility or that might harm vulnerable clients.
To me, an erroneous death prediction has more-than-small chances of going wrong, and fairly serious consequences, if it does, for the "native" in question. Just for example, seriously ill people, or people of a nervous disposition are highly suggestable. Most astrologers have no professional training in dealing with patients in end-of-life circumstances, nor in treating suicidal people. For most astrologers to think that they can actually "help" such people in some fashion is extremely foolish, arrogant, and potentially dangerous.
When my children were babies, I took every precaution against crib-death. I didn't need an astrologer to make me even more concerned than I already was about my babies' well-being.
Astrology surely has a tradition within Judaism, as exemplified by the zodiac floor mosaics in about half a dozen synagogues in Israel, some sects of Jewish mysticism, and the traditional Jewish calender. But astrology in any branches of normative Judaism is not seen as superior to God's power to run the universe to His liking. To the Hellenized Jews who built synagogues incorporating zodiac designs, the mosaics were a symbolic representation of God's ordering of the heavens.
Both professional and amateur scholars have looked at astrological symbolism in the Bible for several centuries. A few years ago, I made a stab at this myself. I think the 12 tribes symbolism plus many additional allusions are there in the pre-Hellenic material, but not necessarily with the commonly-held 12 zodiacal signs; as some of the descriptions of the tribes are poor fits with zodiac constellations. Rather, the state of the heavens during the Mediterranean rainy season was of prime importance to ancient Jews, and they included constellations both on and off the ecliptic.
In terms of whether any available or potential knowledge needs some kind of fruition, I have to disagree with this. Because something can be known, let alone implemented, doesn't mean that it should be. If the US Army could develop better anti-personnel devices for maiming children in Afghanistan, should they do this? If Monsanto can develop "terminator" seeds that would destroy poor farmers' abilities to save and replant their own viable seeds, should Monsanto collect the information and run the lab experiments to do so?
And the "knowledge" of Renaissance astrologers is questionable as knowledge, regardless. Despite the English Civil War, astrological knowledge persisted in continental Europe. Astrology died out in continental European universities by the late 18th century because its truth-claims were in shambles.
[BTW, I spent over 30 years as a university professor, prior to my retirement, so knowledge collection and dissemination were my business.]
