Synastry vs Composite

I am a bit confused about the contradictory nature of these two kind of charts. Most of the time when a Synastry chart indicates a very promising relationship, the composite makes it look like a totally disester! I just don't understand which one to accpet! For example, if you see following charts between, lets say A and B, the synastry looks great to me. There are a lot of very promising conenctions between personal planets and angels. But then the Composite makes it such a horrible relationship.

Which one shall I believe? Or am I missing something vital?

Please help.

In my experience (I have the same strong synastry/terrible composite - which you commented on earlier, thank you!) it plays out like this: they are atracted to eachother and and want to be together and begin with a lot of good faith in the relationship and eachother (eg moon conjunct jupiter). But somehow people or circumstances make an actual relationship near impossible, because things keep going wrong (moon square mars opposite uranus - ouch!). And it always feels like it's one thing after another...yet in calmer moments they trully believe that the other person is "right" for them...if only "this or that was different they would be perfect" etc etc. On the other hand, if the synastry was terrible, they would never have met/entered into a relationship in the first place.

To answer your question, however, IMO an awareness of the synastry (and the individuals' natals) is more important, because one can make adjustments if they know what the stress areas are, whereas with the composite there is nothing anyone can do to change the nature of 'the relationship'.

petal said:

In my experience (I have the same strong synastry/terrible composite - which you commented on earlier, thank you!) it plays out like this: they are atracted to eachother and and want to be together and begin with a lot of good faith in the relationship and eachother (eg moon conjunct jupiter). But somehow people or circumstances make an actual relationship near impossible, because things keep going wrong (moon square mars opposite uranus - ouch!). And it always feels like it's one thing after another...yet in calmer moments they trully believe that the other person is "right" for them...if only "this or that was different they would be perfect" etc etc. On the other hand, if the synastry was terrible, they would never have met/entered into a relationship in the first place.

To answer your question, however, IMO an awareness of the synastry (and the individuals' natals) is more important, because one can make adjustments if they know what the stress areas are, whereas with the composite there is nothing anyone can do to change the nature of 'the relationship'.

Click to expand...

That make perfect sense!! Thank you ever so much for the clarification, Patel. You made it very easy to understand.

But it feels so very unfair to have things happen in life like this, isn't it?

Expected some expert advice, got none except one kind lady.

In my earlier years I did prefer synastry over composite; but for a long time now I have used the ancient Foundation analysis method (aka Pillar method) in comparing the deeper indications in relationships; I have posted a few of these analyses here on AW; basically you find the Foundation (Basis or Pillar) of each natal chart, then:
1) compare the elements of the signs ruling each Foundation
2) compare the planetary rulers of the sign in which each Foundation is posited
3) ...and most importantly, find the aspect-by-sign between each Foundation
...and from these considerations you draw your conclusions about the benefit-or otherwise-of the relationship for both people involved.
The Foundation (or Pillar) of each natal horoscope is found according to the relevant formula:
:if a diurnal nativitiy: Foundation = ascendant+part of spirit-part of fortune
:if a nocturnal birth: Foundation = ascendant+part of fortune-part of spirit

Chirongirl said:

Expected some expert advice, got none except one kind lady.

Click to expand...

Maybe your expectations are too high then. You cannot insist or demand anything here, we are all free to give insights as and when we have time or inclinations....

Netpune square mercury in composite shows lies, deception in communications. I have/do have this one

Moon opp uranus suggests emotions outbursts, and is on my list of divorce aspects. So one person needs lots of freedom and independence

Saturn in synastry tends to act as 'cement' for good OR bad. There are lots of red lines/challenges going on here. Suns are opposite. Saturns are in opposite signs showing quite an age difference going on here..

Have you tried a free composite chart with explanations being 'interactive'
Composite charts
If you go to www.astro.com click on free horoscopes, go to Interactive horoscopes, go down to Astroclick partner, that will bring up a composite chart and when you put the mouse over a planet will bring up a pop up box with the interpretation......

But you do need both times of birth to be accurate though.. enjoy.

Composites describe the relationship, not either one of you, but what you came together to learn or to do and how the 'pair of you' function when together....

http://books.google.com/books?id=dUulSwQoEC4C&pg=PR16&dq=robert+hand+composites&ei=r8HRSsXNEJvmygSIsP3eCQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The Book ---Planets in Composite: Analyzing Human Relationships By Robert Hand-- is greatly recommended

“The composite doesn't seem to describe what either person feels about the other. In this way it is very different from synastry, which describes the chemistry between two people in terms of how they affect each other. The composite chart is like a child, a third entity which carries the genetic imprints of both parents but combines these imprints in an entirely new way and exists independently of either of them”
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_composit_e.htm

“Composites have their own laws and energies, and these have nothing to do with whether we are "well matched" with someone. A composite in itself will not tell us about compatibility. That is what synastry is for. The composite won't reveal whether the relationship is "good" or "bad" in terms of the chemistry between two people. The composite says to us, "If you choose to enter this relationship, here is its meaning and pattern of destiny”
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_composit_e.htm

http://www.astrology-numerology.com/composite.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/composite.html

“For example, the composite Ascendant can indicate the circumstances surrounding the first meeting or the beginning of the relationship. It can also point to how a couple initiates things together (such as projects). Similarly, the end of a relationship can be depicted by the composite twelfth house. Once a relationship kicks in (moves beyond the initial stages), the composite Sun becomes more apparent. If a commitment to each other happens, the seventh and eighth houses come more clearly into focus. As such, the conditions surrounding the planets and houses in the composite chart can show us different stages of development of the relationship over time.”
http://www.cafeastrology.com/compositechart.html
click on link to read full article

http://www.astrology-numerology.com/composite.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/composite.html

“Composite charts that has ascendant and midheaven agree in element will most closely describe the type of the relationship your partnership has formed. For instance a relationship that has Taurus on the Ascendant and Capricorn on the Midheaven will closely describe a “traditional” relationship. Those charts that do not agree will keep the element of the ascendant as the primary relationship style while incorporating the element of the Midheaven into the relationship. An analysis of the individual’s chart against the composite chart will show how his or her chart meshes with the composite chart and the style of the relationship”
http://starrynightastrology.com/2009/08/02/relationship-astrology-making-love-last-part-1-your-relationship-style/

Re: relationships
theortically EJ has the right order but I would question the interpretations of composites and davision's cos some members here who specialises reads composites as if they were davison charts.

1) In composites I disregard planetary sign placements and instead focus on houses where the planets fall and on aspects. The composite Sun is the most important.
2) Aspects that occur in both natals and in the composite/davison will be psychological issues that need to be worked on in the relationship.
3) Aspects that occur in the composite but not in the natals are issues rising within the relationship that have not been dealt with before by either party.
4) In Davison the main difference is to look at sign placement, whilst ignore sign placement in the composite. Also look for sign strength and weakness, mutual reception, sole dispositors.
5) In both ‘composites’ and ‘Davisons’, look for midpoints that are conjoined by planets in either natal. In composites, these relationships seem to be referring to psychological issues, while in ‘Davidsons’, the midpoint relationships tend to refer to forces acting on the couple from outside the relationship.
6) Try putting your natal planets around the outside of either chart, to see who relates best to this relationship and who is gaining the most. This can be rather revealing
7) Also remember you can use transits over both these charts and again Angles are very sensitive points
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180956&postcount=11

Davison chart v Composite chart
“Important point! Both of these charts are for the two of you as a couple. They show things that will tend to happen in the relationship as well as how you act towards the outside world when you are together. They have no effect when you are apart”
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/relationshipdavidson26.0.htm

Anything is possible, don't let astrology limit or define who or what you do!
To start with it's best to look at the individual needs of each persons chart and how they relate and what they are looking for. Astro.com does have an option composite + natal midpoint method (2) which I find helpful. If you choose to post the synastry bi wheel from astro could you please select the 2nd synastry option as it will put the houses and degrees onto the wheel which is far better for us to evaluate matters....
If you post the synastry chart and realise it doesn’t show the degrees (which we need to look at) you can find the degrees and other information in a separate PDF on the synastry page of astro.com. Look for the link "View the additional tables (PDF)" and click on it to see the additional information. Reading a synastry chart is mainly about reading the aspects between the planets in the two charts. So once you find the PDF, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look in the synastry grid that is there. Unfortunately, you can only see/read these and not save/upload. That’s why I like to see both natal’s and composite. This grid (in my opinion) has too many minor aspects and the orbs are quite wide. I like to use + - max 3’

When looking at a woman’s chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..


If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry-houses.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastryaspects.html
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/astrology-marriage.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17513
http://www.astrotheme.com/synastry_advice.php
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/synastry/ascendant.html


relationship sticky
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28945
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254409&postcount=9

astrologer50 said:

“Composite charts that has ascendant and midheaven agree in element will most closely describe the type of the relationship your partnership has formed. For instance a relationship that has Taurus on the Ascendant and Capricorn on the Midheaven will closely describe a “traditional” relationship. Those charts that do not agree will keep the element of the ascendant as the primary relationship style while incorporating the element of the Midheaven into the relationship. An analysis of the individual’s chart against the composite chart will show how his or her chart meshes with the composite chart and the style of the relationship”
http://starrynightastrology.com/2009/08/02/relationship-astrology-making-love-last-part-1-your-relationship-style/

Re: relationships
theortically EJ has the right order but I would question the interpretations of composites and davision's cos some members here who specialises reads composites as if they were davison charts.

1) In composites I disregard planetary sign placements and instead focus on houses where the planets fall and on aspects. The composite Sun is the most important.
2) Aspects that occur in both natals and in the composite/davison will be psychological issues that need to be worked on in the relationship.
3) Aspects that occur in the composite but not in the natals are issues rising within the relationship that have not been dealt with before by either party.
4) In Davison the main difference is to look at sign placement, whilst ignore sign placement in the composite. Also look for sign strength and weakness, mutual reception, sole dispositors.
5) In both ‘composites’ and ‘Davisons’, look for midpoints that are conjoined by planets in either natal. In composites, these relationships seem to be referring to psychological issues, while in ‘Davidsons’, the midpoint relationships tend to refer to forces acting on the couple from outside the relationship.
6) Try putting your natal planets around the outside of either chart, to see who relates best to this relationship and who is gaining the most. This can be rather revealing
7) Also remember you can use transits over both these charts and again Angles are very sensitive points
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180956&postcount=11

Davison chart v Composite chart
“Important point! Both of these charts are for the two of you as a couple. They show things that will tend to happen in the relationship as well as how you act towards the outside world when you are together. They have no effect when you are apart”
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/relationshipdavidson26.0.htm

Anything is possible, don't let astrology limit or define who or what you do!
To start with it's best to look at the individual needs of each persons chart and how they relate and what they are looking for. Astro.com does have an option composite + natal midpoint method (2) which I find helpful. If you choose to post the synastry bi wheel from astro could you please select the 2nd synastry option as it will put the houses and degrees onto the wheel which is far better for us to evaluate matters....
If you post the synastry chart and realise it doesn’t show the degrees (which we need to look at) you can find the degrees and other information in a separate PDF on the synastry page of astro.com. Look for the link "View the additional tables (PDF)" and click on it to see the additional information. Reading a synastry chart is mainly about reading the aspects between the planets in the two charts. So once you find the PDF, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look in the synastry grid that is there. Unfortunately, you can only see/read these and not save/upload. That’s why I like to see both natal’s and composite. This grid (in my opinion) has too many minor aspects and the orbs are quite wide. I like to use + - max 3’

When looking at a woman’s chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..


If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry-houses.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastryaspects.html
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/astrology-marriage.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17513
http://www.astrotheme.com/synastry_advice.php
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/synastry/ascendant.html


relationship sticky
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28945
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254409&postcount=9

Click to expand...

Hi Astrologer50,
I don't have enough word to say how thankful I am to you for your kind response and all these very useful information you have given here. Planets in Composite: Analyzing Human Relationships By Robert Hand is one of the 65 astrology book I won and study time to time. I also have almost all Liz Greene and Martin Schulman books on relationship and I do read them, honestly! But sometimes reading book is not enough. A little bit of expert help goes a long way!!

This has been tremedously helpful. I got some understanding from Patel's post, but your contribution made it so much more Academic! Thanks once again for your time and help. And yes...I do have a very high expectation to this forum, I have visited a lot of forums before becoming a member of this one. In my opinion, this one is the best and most reliable one and I was looking forward to learn from this forum. So..you can't blame me for having high expectations!

dr. farr said:

In my earlier years I did prefer synastry over composite; but for a long time now I have used the ancient Foundation analysis method (aka Pillar method) in comparing the deeper indications in relationships; I have posted a few of these analyses here on AW; basically you find the Foundation (Basis or Pillar) of each natal chart, then:
1) compare the elements of the signs ruling each Foundation
2) compare the planetary rulers of the sign in which each Foundation is posited
3) ...and most importantly, find the aspect-by-sign between each Foundation
...and from these considerations you draw your conclusions about the benefit-or otherwise-of the relationship for both people involved.
The Foundation (or Pillar) of each natal horoscope is found according to the relevant formula:
:if a diurnal nativitiy: Foundation = ascendant+part of spirit-part of fortune
:if a nocturnal birth: Foundation = ascendant+part of fortune-part of spirit

Click to expand...

Hi dr. Farr,
Thanks a lot for your very kind response. Although I am new in this forum, I have noticed you use different method than most other western astrologers. But most important thing is, your interpretation is so much to the point, and reveling its simply amazing. I am a big admirer of your interpretation although I don;t really understand how you come up with them...hahaha! For example, calculating this Foundation thing...is there a software which does it? Is there a website where I can get these calculation done or do I have to do this by hand? If I have to do this manually, how do I do this?

I am willing to learn.

Thanks once again for your kind help and encouragement. From now on I will bug you whenever I post a topic..hahaha.

Composite Charts show the relationship itself as its own entity. A relationship has a life of its own, which is in large part why we behave like different people in context of our relationships. The composite is like looking at a natal chart. It tells you the potential of the relationship itself.

Synastry measures how two people actually interact with and respond to one another. It does not paint a picture of the direction of the relationship. We can not look at synastry and tell what kind of things two people are going to choose to do or tackle together. We can tell how they are going to work with or against each other on an emotional, physical, material, spiritual and intellectual level.

I hope this clarifies the confusion for you. They are both invaluable tools, but of course when using either, it's best to analyze the natal charts independently first.

Chirongirl said:

Hi dr. Farr,
Thanks a lot for your very kind response. Although I am new in this forum, I have noticed you use different method than most other western astrologers. But most important thing is, your interpretation is so much to the point, and reveling its simply amazing. I am a big admirer of your interpretation although I don;t really understand how you come up with them...hahaha! For example, calculating this Foundation thing...is there a software which does it? Is there a website where I can get these calculation done or do I have to do this by hand? If I have to do this manually, how do I do this?

I am willing to learn.

Thanks once again for your kind help and encouragement. From now on I will bug you whenever I post a topic..hahaha.

Click to expand...

I am afraid it has to be done by hand, but if you know how to calculate Parts, its simple to do.

1) convert the sign placement into degrees of the circle: eg,1 Aries = 1; 29 Taurus = 59; 11 Capricorn = 281; and so on (each sign advances the circle 30 degrees; so Aries goes from 0-29, then Taurus from 30 through 59, then Gemini from 60 through 89, etc)

2) for ease of calculation, just round to the nearest whole degree (if you find say 25degrees29minutes, just go with 25 degrees; if you find say 11degrees48minutes, round up to 12 degrees, etc)

3) the rest is easy: in the formulas given (part of spirit and part of fortune) just add the first 2 figures and subtract the 3 figure; if the sum of the first 2 figures is less than the 3rd figure you subtract, then add 360 to the sum of the first 2 figures and then subtract the 3rd figure; if subtracting the 3rd figure from the sum of the first 2 figures yields a number above 360, then add 360 to the 3rd figure before subtracting; its really very easy to do, and if you have problems you can google arabic parts calculator, go to that site, and then determine the part of spirit and the part of fortune for each chart on the calculator found at that site.

4) to find the Foundation point (Pillar of the horoscope) simply add the ascending degree (converted into the degrees of the circle) to the part of spirit and subtract the part of fortune (if it is a day birth), or, if a night birth, add the ascending degree to the part of fortune and subtract the part of spirit, and you have your Foundation point (Pillar) for that natal chart.

Example: in a night birth, the part of fortune is @ 0 Scorpio; the part of spirit is @ 1 Capricorn; the ascending degree is 1 Sagittarius: find the Foundation point (Pillar) in this chart
-convert the ascending degree = 1 Sagittarius = 241 (of the circle)
-part of fortune @ 0 Scorpio converts to 210 (of the circle)
-part of spirit @ 1 Capricorn converts to 271 (of the circle)
Therefore:
ascending degree 241 + part of fortune 210 = 451; then subtract the part of spirit 271 and this = (451minus271) 180; then convert that back into the zodiac signs; so the Foundation point (Pillar) of this natal chart is @ 0 Libra (which is the 180th degree of the circle; if the number had been 185, then it would be 5 Libra, the 185th degree of the circle, and so on)

Might sound complicated, but the calculations are very simple to do once you get the hang of it, and in fact a Foundation analysis is actually much simpler to do, and to delineate, than either composite or synastry charts!

I just did the Foundation/Pillar for myself and a partner with dr. farr's assistance and I used the following Arabic Parts Calculator to calculate my exact Part of Spirit and then subsequently the Pillar (which is not in the drop down menu, but it doesn't matter because the tool will calculate whatever you need using the basic a + b - c = the answer!):

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

I found aspects in my composite with most recent SO that were not in synastry. They were very accurate, difficult, and the accurately reflected the major issue in our relationship. When I finally drew up our composite we had been living together for months. I went AHa, there it is. oh well.
I do also look at Davison charts. But honestly don't have lots of experience with either composite or Davison.

Astrology50

Thanks a lot for your kind response. Its reassuring to know that other people's tranist does not affect me! Perhaps I was just being peranoid!

dr. faar, thank you ever so much for taking time to make this clear to me. Much appreciation.

Ethertwist and Munch,
It was very kind of you to take time to reply to clarify things for me. Thank you ever so much.

Kind regards to all.

Svencanz said:

For me, it was a failed composite analysis that got me into learning about Magi Astrology, and their synastry.

The relationships was very good according to composite.
In reality, it turned out very bad. When I looked at the relationship through Magi theory, it made sense. I no longer use composite at all.

Sven

Click to expand...

Thats surly an interesting experience! Thanks a lot for sharing it with us.

I have a question about synastry. What does it mean in your experience when Mars and Venus are in square in both directions? We have some harmonious aspects too, and that's why this is very confusing to me.

We are not in relationship,and our communication is very gentle, but does it mean that if we entered love relationship,we would start fighting because of the double Venus square Mars we have in synastry?

Hello Choe. It would be hard to tell how that aspect would play out without seeing the charts in question. There could be many mitigating or aggrivating factors. May I suggest posting your synastry bi-wheel in a seperate thread and repeat your question there as well. I'd be happy to take a look for you.

Chirongirl said:

I am a bit confused about the contradictory nature of these two kind of charts. Most of the time when a Synastry chart indicates a very promising relationship, the composite makes it look like a totally disester! I just don't understand which one to accpet! For example, if you see following charts between, lets say A and B, the synastry looks great to me. There are a lot of very promising conenctions between personal planets and angels. But then the Composite makes it such a horrible relationship.

Which one shall I believe? Or am I missing something vital?

Please help.

Click to expand...

Not having read any further in this thread beyond the initial post to see if anything has been clarified for you yet, I'll tell you this much:

A synastry chart would show how (for example) Brad and Angelina would respond to each other.

A composite chart would show how "Brangelina" would work together as a team.

You can even look at aspects between a composite chart and each natal chart to see how each individual would respond to the couple as a whole. Frankly, I think it would do wonders for couple's counseling, but I don't know how many therapists would embrace astrology as part of their practice(s).

One thing I learned last year is a composite chart is valuable to track the progress of a relationship. My daughter broke up with her boyfriend when their composite Venus was squared by Uranus and their composite ascendant was squared by Saturn.

I am having a little chuckle at his expense this week as I realized his new relationship will suffer the same fate this year except transit Uranus will square their composite ascendant and Saturn will oppose their composite Venus. It was interesting to note all their composite personal planets are in debillitated signs.

Got it.

Generally speaking, what I've read and believe to be true from experience is that it's something that the two individuals need to work on and will do so within the confines of the relationship. Some people would call it Karma. I don't think it means the relationship won't work or will be hell. I simply think it means it points towards personal issues that the two people share in common.

I have moon semi square mars in my natal chart and in my synastry with my boyfriend we have moon opposite mars and moon square mars. We love each other so fiercely, but have learned how to be aware of the other person's drive so as not to get in the way, so to speak with personal emotional nonsense (ie, emotional manipulation to control the situation and get our own way at the expense of the partner's ambitions and needs).

I hope that helps a little. *shrug*