Moon-Neptune opposition
- Thread starter Blackbird
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Do you have this aspect? Natally?
As an astrologer I don't like to see this aspect, as it represents a lot of emotional issues, many of which cannot be defined by the native. It implies that the person has had, and still may have, in his/her life people who are very dysfunctional, and not caring of her needs....in fact these people may not validate that she HAS needs and feelings. Often these Neptunian influences are people who are addicted and codependent. Neptune can represent a large variety of negative influences in childhood and unfortunately, the native often finds this same type of influences in the people she chooses to be close later in life.
I'm wondering if any people with this aspect will find accuracy in what I've said above.
Neptune opposing Moon by TRANSIT can be incredibly traumatic too, as it brings back the past, emotionally, and confuses many issues that were not confusing before.
It can represent finding out truths ... unpleasant truths about people in their life with whom they were close...or thought were close.
It can end relationships or bring dysfunctional relationships into one's life.
In short, this combination has few redeeming qualities.
I always suggest getting to know, in depth, the truths surrounding the Neptunian issues in one's chart when Neptune is powerful...by natus or by transit.
Neptune's opposite is Pluto....which represents the very deepest truths...often covered by much illusion.
LIN
As an astrologer I don't like to see this aspect, as it represents a lot of emotional issues, many of which cannot be defined by the native. It implies that the person has had, and still may have, in his/her life people who are very dysfunctional, and not caring of her needs....in fact these people may not validate that she HAS needs and feelings. Often these Neptunian influences are people who are addicted and codependent. Neptune can represent a large variety of negative influences in childhood and unfortunately, the native often finds this same type of influences in the people she chooses to be close later in life.
I'm wondering if any people with this aspect will find accuracy in what I've said above.
Neptune opposing Moon by TRANSIT can be incredibly traumatic too, as it brings back the past, emotionally, and confuses many issues that were not confusing before.
It can represent finding out truths ... unpleasant truths about people in their life with whom they were close...or thought were close.
It can end relationships or bring dysfunctional relationships into one's life.
In short, this combination has few redeeming qualities.
I always suggest getting to know, in depth, the truths surrounding the Neptunian issues in one's chart when Neptune is powerful...by natus or by transit.
Neptune's opposite is Pluto....which represents the very deepest truths...often covered by much illusion.
LIN
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Blackbird
Well-known member
Thank you for replying, Lin. Yes, I do have this aspect natally with my cancer moon in 11th and capricorn neptune in 5th house. I'll try to post my chart, so you could see it for yourself. I do relate to what you've wrote about this aspect. I am hypersensitive and strongly react to my surroundings and the feelings of people I spent most time with. Altough I try not to, I tend to fully absorb all of the emotional information of people around me, either positive or negative (cancer moon, maybe?). Also my self-esteem is very low and I have rapid mood swings nearly every day (moon-uranus opposition?). Moreover, I've been dealing with depressive/suicidal thinking since the age 8. Regular verbal fights between parents at home and abuse at school worsened my condition even more.
You've also meniotend the presence of somehow dysfunctional people. Well, my parents aren't antisiocial; they do not have addiction problems nor they're abusive (well, at least openly, physically) towards me, but I feel a major lack of emotional support from them. Growing up I've spent most of the time with my dad, since my mum emigrated to foreign country to earn our family a better living when I was 11. My dad is a strange man, so to speak. He cares for me (sometimes to the extent of overprotection), is there for me physically, but emotionally we're disconnected (saturn opposite asc opposite chiron=distant father?). I feel as though he treats me as his beloved pet, with no higher feelings/spiritual needs, who only needs food, shelter and a few toys to live happy, fulfilling life. The only thing is, I'm not sure wheter he just doesn't try to acknowledge this, or he just really can't do this, because he himself hadn't received the love of his parents while growing up (he grew up in an orphanage).
You've also meniotend the presence of somehow dysfunctional people. Well, my parents aren't antisiocial; they do not have addiction problems nor they're abusive (well, at least openly, physically) towards me, but I feel a major lack of emotional support from them. Growing up I've spent most of the time with my dad, since my mum emigrated to foreign country to earn our family a better living when I was 11. My dad is a strange man, so to speak. He cares for me (sometimes to the extent of overprotection), is there for me physically, but emotionally we're disconnected (saturn opposite asc opposite chiron=distant father?). I feel as though he treats me as his beloved pet, with no higher feelings/spiritual needs, who only needs food, shelter and a few toys to live happy, fulfilling life. The only thing is, I'm not sure wheter he just doesn't try to acknowledge this, or he just really can't do this, because he himself hadn't received the love of his parents while growing up (he grew up in an orphanage).
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Hey Blackbird.
I do not have the opposition, but I do have the conjunction between these two 'planets.'
I think where Neptune is involved, it doesn't necessarily matter what the hard aspect is. It behaves pretty much the same way, in that it creates similar similarities.
Moon/Neptune natives tend to have 'missing mothers' in some sense of the word. For you, she moved, but stayed in the picture in the most remote manner. For me, she literally just up and left. Awww, thanks conjunction, lol!
That's not to say that I didn't have a mother figure. I did, though she was overly protective and shielded me from the world leaving me very, very naive and with no boundaries whatsoever.
I was never sure when it was appropriate to say no and when it was 'wrong' to do so. She had my life so planned out for me that I had trouble deciding which clothes to wear once I was 18; which was unfortunate since the age of 18 is when my parents threw me to the world and withdrew all support. Oh my word......
Anyway, I digress.
At several points in my life when I was younger (especially before the age of 25) I felt suicidal. I tried a couple of times and this is the first time that I have ever shared that publicly. I just want you to know, even if you don't understand that it does get better. Much, much better. The trick is to set your desire, goal, focus, intention and will towards not escaping but creating, earning and developing the tools to move through this period. Spend time with yourself, just you. Get to know and delight in all of the beautiful little idiosyncrasies that make you so incredibly YOU. Nurture those things and set your will (even if it takes practice).
It's wasn't 'easy' for me, but it was very illuminating and helped me understand that each aspect is a PROMISE of a beautiful potential. Trines are beautiful until they create boring, slothful folks who contribute nothing and squares are horrible until they shape the majestic individual's in complete command of themselves.
I am not saying that your trip is anything like mine. Indeed, our two realities may only intersect here, online; but still maybe just knowing that you are not a single voice in the night, so to speak may help.
I do not have the opposition, but I do have the conjunction between these two 'planets.'
I think where Neptune is involved, it doesn't necessarily matter what the hard aspect is. It behaves pretty much the same way, in that it creates similar similarities.
Moon/Neptune natives tend to have 'missing mothers' in some sense of the word. For you, she moved, but stayed in the picture in the most remote manner. For me, she literally just up and left. Awww, thanks conjunction, lol!
That's not to say that I didn't have a mother figure. I did, though she was overly protective and shielded me from the world leaving me very, very naive and with no boundaries whatsoever. I was never sure when it was appropriate to say no and when it was 'wrong' to do so. She had my life so planned out for me that I had trouble deciding which clothes to wear once I was 18; which was unfortunate since the age of 18 is when my parents threw me to the world and withdrew all support. Oh my word......
Anyway, I digress.
At several points in my life when I was younger (especially before the age of 25) I felt suicidal. I tried a couple of times and this is the first time that I have ever shared that publicly. I just want you to know, even if you don't understand that it does get better. Much, much better. The trick is to set your desire, goal, focus, intention and will towards not escaping but creating, earning and developing the tools to move through this period. Spend time with yourself, just you. Get to know and delight in all of the beautiful little idiosyncrasies that make you so incredibly YOU. Nurture those things and set your will (even if it takes practice).
It's wasn't 'easy' for me, but it was very illuminating and helped me understand that each aspect is a PROMISE of a beautiful potential. Trines are beautiful until they create boring, slothful folks who contribute nothing and squares are horrible until they shape the majestic individual's in complete command of themselves.
I am not saying that your trip is anything like mine. Indeed, our two realities may only intersect here, online; but still maybe just knowing that you are not a single voice in the night, so to speak may help.
The fact that Neptune conjs. Uranus makes it worse.
Everything you said about yourself is very much the definition of this aspect.
The mother being absent, the father too important (alone in the 7th), your wanting more from him than he can give you.
As you get older and become independent you will be able to be a bit more objective about your parents and realize THEY are not YOU.
Knowing yourself IS vital.... but sometimes you have to search to FIND yourself. Especially when the parents and beginnings have too much power.
As a fellow Leo (Aug.7) with strong Cancer tendencies, I need to tell you that you must not get caught up trying to "fix" your father. This will produce the need to "fix" broken men in the future. So unless you become a Psychologist, this energy needs to be redirected.
Your Sun and Saturn (father) are inconjunct....150 degrees apart. It's a lost cause. You need to find YOUR strength, your authority and "road" in life.... and not keep looking back.
You need to be "in charge" of your life... which means being "responsible" for it.
And then just don't make the same mistakes with YOUR children. They are the ones who will count in the end. Your responsibility is "forward" and not backward.
That is my opinion and experience, anyway.
LIN
Everything you said about yourself is very much the definition of this aspect.
The mother being absent, the father too important (alone in the 7th), your wanting more from him than he can give you.
As you get older and become independent you will be able to be a bit more objective about your parents and realize THEY are not YOU.
Knowing yourself IS vital.... but sometimes you have to search to FIND yourself. Especially when the parents and beginnings have too much power.
As a fellow Leo (Aug.7) with strong Cancer tendencies, I need to tell you that you must not get caught up trying to "fix" your father. This will produce the need to "fix" broken men in the future. So unless you become a Psychologist, this energy needs to be redirected.
Your Sun and Saturn (father) are inconjunct....150 degrees apart. It's a lost cause. You need to find YOUR strength, your authority and "road" in life.... and not keep looking back.
You need to be "in charge" of your life... which means being "responsible" for it.
And then just don't make the same mistakes with YOUR children. They are the ones who will count in the end. Your responsibility is "forward" and not backward.
That is my opinion and experience, anyway.
LIN
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milkywaygirl
Well-known member
My brother has this aspect. He is a perpetual victim. He feels sorry for himself quite a lot. He makes no effort to try to be happy. His attitude is that no one comprehends the depths of his despair, and no one can help him, and he doesn't help himself. He is extremely touchy and overemotional, lost in his head. We unfortunately hardly speak as a result. He takes things out of context and constructs persecution scenarios in his mind - in one of my last interactions with him, he accused me of trying to make him feel dumb and insignificant, when I was not doing anything of the sort.
He is 30 and lives at home with our mother, their relationship lacks a lot of boundaries. She still treats him like a child, and he lets her. He is highly intelligent but doesn't apply himself. Hes gay, and gets emotionally hung up on men who he can't have - case in point, he started going to a Hindu temple, and "fell in love" with the pujari/priest, and then lamented over the fact that he couldn't get with the guy. It's like he sets himself up for disappointment on purpose.
He is 30 and lives at home with our mother, their relationship lacks a lot of boundaries. She still treats him like a child, and he lets her. He is highly intelligent but doesn't apply himself. Hes gay, and gets emotionally hung up on men who he can't have - case in point, he started going to a Hindu temple, and "fell in love" with the pujari/priest, and then lamented over the fact that he couldn't get with the guy. It's like he sets himself up for disappointment on purpose.
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"His attitude is that no one comprehends the depths of his despair, and no one can help him"
Just to play 'devils advocate' for a second....he DOES feel this way. That is the horror of Neptune when it is too powerful.
And being tied to the past, in this case his mother, is very common. With this aspect even if the person doesn't live with the "moon" person....often the mother .... it doesn't change anything. They are tied to this person psychologically.
It's normal (if this can be called normal) for the energy to turn IN instead of OUT, with Neptune opp. the Moon.
Naturally, all the other planets have their parts to play, too, but for some reason your brother can't find his goals outside "emotional landscape."
You don't say if he works, if he has to work, if he has friends, hobbies, interests...or if your mother has friends, hobbies, a job, interests....
If he is 30 he is going through or just did go through his Saturn return. If he is IN the Saturn return now, it would be a good time for him to focus on some goals.
If your mother makes it possible for him to live without working, there is not much chance for change....barring the totally unpredictable.
LIN
Just to play 'devils advocate' for a second....he DOES feel this way. That is the horror of Neptune when it is too powerful.
And being tied to the past, in this case his mother, is very common. With this aspect even if the person doesn't live with the "moon" person....often the mother .... it doesn't change anything. They are tied to this person psychologically.
It's normal (if this can be called normal) for the energy to turn IN instead of OUT, with Neptune opp. the Moon.
Naturally, all the other planets have their parts to play, too, but for some reason your brother can't find his goals outside "emotional landscape."
You don't say if he works, if he has to work, if he has friends, hobbies, interests...or if your mother has friends, hobbies, a job, interests....
If he is 30 he is going through or just did go through his Saturn return. If he is IN the Saturn return now, it would be a good time for him to focus on some goals.
If your mother makes it possible for him to live without working, there is not much chance for change....barring the totally unpredictable.
LIN
milkywaygirl
Well-known member
What you mentioned about the energy being turned inwards is right on point. He is an excellent writer/poet. Like really, really good. But all of his writing is about his emotional state of suffering. It doesn't make for very interesting reading, despite its high quality. I tried to encourage him to get out into the world, if for nothing else, to generate experiences to draw upon, but he prefers to write about how sad he is that he's gay and lives in the suburbs and has no life. I even set him up with a publisher, but he ******* up the communication with her and didnt follow up properly.
He has a labour job working at a garden centre, which is a great improvement for him because he was unemployed for a few years. Unfortunately my mother doesn't push him at all and would just let him live at home and not work, it's a codependency thing on her part. I was at least able to convince her to make him pay some rent and pay for his own cellphone, so it's a start. I think it has brought him a little sense of self esteem... My mother is very social and busy, she has many friends. My brothers last birthday party was attended by mostly her friends, and family. He has very few friends of his own. He stopped being friends with one because he claimed that the guy was "using" him somehow, although he doesn't have any money or anything, so I'm not sure what he could have been using him for. My mother and him are unhealthily integrated - she gave up the master bedroom to him, and sleeps in a smaller room. They have an unhealthy lack of boundaries.
Anyway, hopefully he will find his way eventually. There's not much anyone can do. When he was particularly depressed I set him up with an appointment with my old psychoanalyst, he saw her and basically told her that there was nothing she could tell him that he didnt already know, and that she couldn't help him.
Vista
Well-known member
Would you find much of what you describe true for the natal conjunction of Moon Neptune? I would imagine it would be worse if it were also square Venus for example? To me these people don't see themselves as who they really are especially if it's in the ASC or aspecting their Sun. They can also project this onto their partners and of course in the end they don't live up to their fantasy. Attracting addictive personalities or becoming addicted to a person is highlighted too as you discussed.
I dated someone for a short time who has Moon conjunct Neptune square Venus and one of my best friends has Moon Neptune conjunct her ASC square her natal Sun. The guy in my opinion was very shut down emotionally and couldn't relate with a woman other than in a sexual way and he was very flakey too. This was someone who really wanted to be loved and have children, yet he was incapable of loving the person he was with. He had Uranus in the 7th house too(with Venus) along with Pluto and Jupiter, so there was a lot of freedom closeness issues going on there for sure. I girlfriend, she definitely lives in a fantasy world and doesn't see herself very clearly. She is much wiser now and a little more realistic, but many of her sentences discussing who she wanted to marry stated with "I have always dreamed I live on the beach and my husband would do this and that....ect," yet she attracted liar and an alcoholic who are codependent on each other and fuel an extravagant lifestyle only to later have to turn around and try and sell things to make rent. It's been very stressful for her after 14 years of it.
I dated someone for a short time who has Moon conjunct Neptune square Venus and one of my best friends has Moon Neptune conjunct her ASC square her natal Sun. The guy in my opinion was very shut down emotionally and couldn't relate with a woman other than in a sexual way and he was very flakey too. This was someone who really wanted to be loved and have children, yet he was incapable of loving the person he was with. He had Uranus in the 7th house too(with Venus) along with Pluto and Jupiter, so there was a lot of freedom closeness issues going on there for sure. I girlfriend, she definitely lives in a fantasy world and doesn't see herself very clearly. She is much wiser now and a little more realistic, but many of her sentences discussing who she wanted to marry stated with "I have always dreamed I live on the beach and my husband would do this and that....ect," yet she attracted liar and an alcoholic who are codependent on each other and fuel an extravagant lifestyle only to later have to turn around and try and sell things to make rent. It's been very stressful for her after 14 years of it.
Vista
Well-known member
As a side note, I didn't date this man for very long so I don't know for sure, but it seemed he always had Xanax and Vicodin on hand. It struck me as weird as I would never take either recreationally and that's what it seemed like to me when he would reference using them in some context or another(jokingly I thought), although he drank very little.
blennus
Well-known member
Neptune Op Moon here, which in my chart is the backbone to a kite formation, so the damage is considerably lessened. Chart Here
It has manifested as being insensitive to my own feelings. I am literally unable to register or be conscious of my own emotions, but to be frankly honest, I doesn't bother me. Feeling is overrated.
I suppose my lack of water signs (except for Uranus in Scorpio) also probably has something to do with that I guess.
EDIT: Interestingly my brother who has moon conjunct neptune, is hyper-sensitive to his emotions. Same house, same environment, and yet we had the exact opposite reaction to the abuse in our home.
It has manifested as being insensitive to my own feelings. I am literally unable to register or be conscious of my own emotions, but to be frankly honest, I doesn't bother me. Feeling is overrated.
I suppose my lack of water signs (except for Uranus in Scorpio) also probably has something to do with that I guess.
EDIT: Interestingly my brother who has moon conjunct neptune, is hyper-sensitive to his emotions. Same house, same environment, and yet we had the exact opposite reaction to the abuse in our home.
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M
may28gemini
From what I've read so far in this thread, it all sounds pretty bad, like incurable even. I think it's something that can be corrected, with tenacity.
I have Moon-Neptune-Venus t-square. Pisces Moon square Sagittarius Neptune opposite Gemini Venus (and then back to square Pisces Moon).
I think that love is elusive and highly difficult to find. Although it's true that often times the ones I find attractive (in appearance and mannerisms) are of the most elusive variety, I learned to stop being disappointed when that kind ignores me. I realized that the elusive types that I like actually mirror how I was raised (at arm's length) and that was the sort of relationship I had with my mother.
Around 4-5 years ago I actively decided to repair the disconnected relationship with my mother. I initiated contact and put faith in her by trusting her. Much to my surprise, she was very receptive and was really glad I showed interest in connecting with her. Before this decision, I actually hated my mother and never respected her. I didn't act out, but I didn't listen to her. I guess the lesson was that I'd be drawn to elusive discombobulated people that wouldn't give me the time of day unless I changed my perception.
Since I've been on good terms with my mother, I stopped being attracted to aloof people. Instead, I've been accused of being aloof towards aloof people and they have a problem with me ignoring them and then they vey for my attention (very weird). The tables have turned and I just ignore the ones who have ignored me. Instead, I shifted my focus on paying attention and having interest in people who are open and make efforts to connect with others (similar to my philosophy). As a result, I've been meeting more and more people who are similar and my interaction with others have become more satisfactory. Disappointment is rarely in the equation. Even though it took me a long time to figure out how to work through my t-square that involves disillusioned Neptune (oy vey), I think I'm on the right track to ironing out this problem.
I have Moon-Neptune-Venus t-square. Pisces Moon square Sagittarius Neptune opposite Gemini Venus (and then back to square Pisces Moon).
I think that love is elusive and highly difficult to find. Although it's true that often times the ones I find attractive (in appearance and mannerisms) are of the most elusive variety, I learned to stop being disappointed when that kind ignores me. I realized that the elusive types that I like actually mirror how I was raised (at arm's length) and that was the sort of relationship I had with my mother.
Around 4-5 years ago I actively decided to repair the disconnected relationship with my mother. I initiated contact and put faith in her by trusting her. Much to my surprise, she was very receptive and was really glad I showed interest in connecting with her. Before this decision, I actually hated my mother and never respected her. I didn't act out, but I didn't listen to her. I guess the lesson was that I'd be drawn to elusive discombobulated people that wouldn't give me the time of day unless I changed my perception.
Since I've been on good terms with my mother, I stopped being attracted to aloof people. Instead, I've been accused of being aloof towards aloof people and they have a problem with me ignoring them and then they vey for my attention (very weird). The tables have turned and I just ignore the ones who have ignored me. Instead, I shifted my focus on paying attention and having interest in people who are open and make efforts to connect with others (similar to my philosophy). As a result, I've been meeting more and more people who are similar and my interaction with others have become more satisfactory. Disappointment is rarely in the equation. Even though it took me a long time to figure out how to work through my t-square that involves disillusioned Neptune (oy vey), I think I'm on the right track to ironing out this problem.
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Sometimes progressions help. They represent internal evolution.
But....women are better at internal evolution than men are. I guess it is because women are naturally "receptive" and will take in new information and want to "use" it to "fix" things internally.
Men are not known for breaking old, bad, habits...especially if they somehow "work" for that person...even if everyone else around them can't possibly see HOW what they are living could be construed as "working for them."
Men also often don't see a way out of the situation, because it is not in their nature to work on their emotional lives or critique their own characters...or even examine their own characters.
LIN
But....women are better at internal evolution than men are. I guess it is because women are naturally "receptive" and will take in new information and want to "use" it to "fix" things internally.
Men are not known for breaking old, bad, habits...especially if they somehow "work" for that person...even if everyone else around them can't possibly see HOW what they are living could be construed as "working for them."
Men also often don't see a way out of the situation, because it is not in their nature to work on their emotional lives or critique their own characters...or even examine their own characters.
LIN
Enduring the conjunction, I resonate with the tone and contents of most all the a.m. but *not* with its application to you Blackbird.
Just saying, those discussed aspects to your Moon are 5 and 6-ish degrees loose (while your "symptoms" appear stronger than what approximately 10% of the general population might describe by having such a loose square or oppostion) while by contrast, up to 30 x tighter orbed, are the aspects composing your Septa-Kite (i.e., Pluto-Moon spine and Sun septile Mars crossbeam, -apex/midpointed by the Moon).
Since all five of your personal planets have septile series aspects, you'll be interested in going through the frustrating process of sorting through the mostly unhelpful guidance available on the net (and/or skipping right to very different-toned, auto-biographical descriptions on forums -like here perhaps? or the "unaspected planets" thread at astro.com- in which anxiety or compulsive behavior was mostly indicated for septile series aspects).
In the meantime, I'm wondering whether you can relate to most of your Moon's indicated experiences being Plutonion in nature (rather than Neptunian/Uranian)?
Just saying, those discussed aspects to your Moon are 5 and 6-ish degrees loose (while your "symptoms" appear stronger than what approximately 10% of the general population might describe by having such a loose square or oppostion) while by contrast, up to 30 x tighter orbed, are the aspects composing your Septa-Kite (i.e., Pluto-Moon spine and Sun septile Mars crossbeam, -apex/midpointed by the Moon).
Since all five of your personal planets have septile series aspects, you'll be interested in going through the frustrating process of sorting through the mostly unhelpful guidance available on the net (and/or skipping right to very different-toned, auto-biographical descriptions on forums -like here perhaps? or the "unaspected planets" thread at astro.com- in which anxiety or compulsive behavior was mostly indicated for septile series aspects).
In the meantime, I'm wondering whether you can relate to most of your Moon's indicated experiences being Plutonion in nature (rather than Neptunian/Uranian)?
Blackbird
Well-known member
Interesting point, Krewster. I never thought of myself as being of Plutonian nature (well, at least astrologically). Maybe it's because I never really paid much attention to orb degrees... I guess I'll need to look into them.
You are right about me being interested in sorting through (helpful?) information available on the net, but I wouldn't call this process frustrating, as some of the information I've already found (astrology related, for example) I do believe has helped me to gain a somehow better understanding about certain things - even some parts of myself that I thought that I've lost or never existed, which I actually kept buried deep from my conscious awareness.
You are right about me being interested in sorting through (helpful?) information available on the net, but I wouldn't call this process frustrating, as some of the information I've already found (astrology related, for example) I do believe has helped me to gain a somehow better understanding about certain things - even some parts of myself that I thought that I've lost or never existed, which I actually kept buried deep from my conscious awareness.